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(Topic ID: 275730)

Do EM's seem like they play in slow motion


By the9gman

68 days ago



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  • 14 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 58 days ago by the9gman
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    #1 68 days ago

    I started this hobby in January with an old em I played as a kid (Jungle) fixed the whole machine up and the flippers were terrible even though I had rebuilt them and got the EOS switch set so they would work as hard as they could and I was still disappointed in their performance. Then I found Budwins post on making them DC which worked rather well ....he used a full wave rectifier with a 12 ohm high watt resistor attached to the hold coil ....I found this worked well but made the flippers too hot so I added a 1 ohm 5W resistor in line with the EOS switch cuts the pull in voltage to 16v and doesn't break plastic. Made the game a lot more fun. I ended up doing the same thing to a Sure Shot and made that one better but the fact of the matter is when I played my SS machines and switch over to the EM's it seemed like I was playing in slow motion. I sold both those machines and got two more SS units which are really fast. Recently picked up a Solar City because I like to tinker with the EM's, it just amazes me how they did all that with relays and stepper switches. Went thru the whole machine and made everything work again fired it up and again slow motion and dismal flipper performance after rebuilding and adjusting all of them the top ones are ok but readjusted the bottom they still seem like a lot of the shots are air balls. It was 45 years ago that I started playing pinball and I don't remember these things being that slow , but maybe they were or maybe the main transformers are a lot less efficient as they age. Since this new machine was bought to do a conversion down the road , I may just hot it up to see what happens by making the lower flippers DC and adding a rectifier and resistor to the bumpers then change to a higher angle

    #2 68 days ago

    Sometimes it's just old playfields playing slower. But yes, pinball has sped up considerably over the years. You didn't notice it back then because all the machines near it were the same speed.

    Lots of EM's the difficulty comes because they're slightly 'floaty' - with a lower slope than modern-ish games. Some early solid state games are like this as well, most set them up steep which actually makes them slightly easier - no longer as much risk of side drains for instance. I can't stand the slowness though on that era.

    EM's I'm ok with the way they play, it's more of a nudge skillset the earlier you go back IMO anyway.

    My DC experiment with Fast Draw's flippers ending up with me snapping 3 or 4 drops since they are so close to the flippers so I changed it back.

    #3 68 days ago

    yep dc does make a hot flipper, thus the reason for the 1 ohm resistor. I usually end up touching up the play field and clear coating then waxing. Hopefully that will make this thing a little less floaty

    #4 68 days ago

    Buy some later Williams or sonics. Gottliebs have the weakest flippers. Many, rebuilt but all stock, play faster than newer SS games.

    Even most gottliebs, properly set up and rebuilt, maybe high tapped, can play comparably to SS games.

    #5 68 days ago

    There are lots of ways to tune up a game. Flipper rebuilds might have the biggest bang for the buck but chasing out dirt and mechanical slop can add up to significant improvement too, like:
    - cleaning or replacing plungers and coil sleeves on pop bumpers, sling shots, kickers, etc.
    - replacing worn links between plungers and whatever they're driving
    - checking for loose or broken yokes on pop bumper rings
    - checking for loose solenoids in brackets
    - cleaning and minimizing switch gaps on pop bumpers, sling shots, etc.
    - cleaning pop bumper spoon switches and ring rods
    - cleaning and waxing the playfield
    - new rubber and ball
    - etc.

    /Mark

    #6 68 days ago

    did almost all that , inspected all plungers took care of any burs buffed and polished all of them checked the linkage....these pop bumpers are weird ...usually they have a contact that opens when the bumper is pulled all the way down, these don't they have an external relay that is used as a momentary on and I don't think the bumper gets the full amount of power to properly activate which makes them weak.

    #7 67 days ago

    You can wax and rebuild and do all that jazz but no EM is going to play like a solid state unless it has bridge rectified bumper and flipper power. It just isn't. AC games will never play as fast as DC games no matter what you do. I have a Bally Surfers that is 50v rather than 25v so it plays faster but compared to a game like Firepower it's not close.

    They play like they play because that's the era they come from. If you want fast play then stick with SS or DMD games or get later EM games that have DC power in them.

    #8 67 days ago
    Quoted from the9gman:

    did almost all that , inspected all plungers took care of any burs buffed and polished all of them checked the linkage....these pop bumpers are weird ...usually they have a contact that opens when the bumper is pulled all the way down, these don't they have an external relay that is used as a momentary on and I don't think the bumper gets the full amount of power to properly activate which makes them weak.

    The pop bumpers have a relay. They have to have one to supply power to the score reel relays.

    #9 67 days ago

    I have 3 80b's that are fast that's when I notice the difference. I got my Monte Carlo and that was when I noticed that my first two EM machines were a lot slower even with flipper improvements. So I sold them and got two more 80b's then I got this machine and it definitely feels like the dark ages. My plan was to rehab it and play it until it comes up on the retheme block where I intend to make it a SS machine. I'm in the process of making major changes and retheming a Raven right now. I agree with you dc is much faster. The only reason I bought this one was because it has 15 drop targets which will fit with the new theme. In the mean time I will go with jazzing it up and waxing the crap out of it

    #10 67 days ago

    I enjoy the change of pace when I play an EM. I’ve actually been playing my EMs a lot more than my DMDs lately. I get more of a “the ball is wild” feeling from them because there aren’t subways and ramps and stuff guiding the ball a particular way. Especially love EMs with pop bumpers near the flippers.

    #11 67 days ago

    I also have been enjoying my ems more and more. It also seems that after playing the ems I tend to shoot more accurately on the newer pins.

    1 week later
    #12 58 days ago

    Ok so I may have learned a lesson here. Finally finished My Solar City. New Rubbers ,play field cleaned ,lot of ball swirls tried the magic eraser trick don't really like cleaning the residue so switched to just plain scotch brite and an alcohol mixture. The paint on this thing is incredible to take that abuse. after all that had to clear coat then wax. The other night I was playing my Raven and granted the playfield is roached ,broken mylar cracks and the original clear coat flaking off and can not get it off without taking off paint that is why this will be re themed. I took the ball out and polished the crap out of it on a buffer to a high gloss mirror finish, the thing is like a hockey puck on Ice. So, I did the same thing to the new ball on the Solar City machine .........that alone makes it a lot faster .......and the original style Gottlieb flippers make you have to play strategically between the upper and lower flippers .....I actually kind of like it , must have played 20 games on it tonight so its ready for the line up.
    The Moral of the story is .........if you want to play faster .....polish the shit out of your balls

    #13 58 days ago
    Quoted from the9gman:

    Ok so I may have learned a lesson here. Finally finished My Solar City. New Rubbers ,play field cleaned ,lot of ball swirls tried the magic eraser trick don't really like cleaning the residue so switched to just plain scotch brite and an alcohol mixture. The paint on this thing is incredible to take that abuse. after all that had to clear coat then wax. The other night I was playing my Raven and granted the playfield is roached ,broken mylar cracks and the original clear coat flaking off and can not get it off without taking off paint that is why this will be re themed. I took the ball out and polished the crap out of it on a buffer to a high gloss mirror finish, the thing is like a hockey puck on Ice. So, I did the same thing to the new ball on the Solar City machine .........that alone makes it a lot faster .......and the original style Gottlieb flippers make you have to play strategically between the upper and lower flippers .....I actually kind of like it , must have played 20 games on it tonight so its ready for the line up.
    The Moral of the story is .........if you want to play faster .....polish the shit out of your balls

    Wait a tick. You used a Scotchbrite pad on a playfield?

    #14 58 days ago

    yep and got away with it , wouldn't you know a machine I didn't care about ....planning to play the crap out of it and then turn it into a custom machine next year with a home brew playfield, turned out so nice .....wouldn't recommend this any more then magic eraser because you have to clear coat afterwards

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