(Topic ID: 122627)

DMD Saver from German-Pinball - Vid's Review

By vid1900

9 years ago


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  • 99 posts
  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by C_S_S
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    Post #1 DMD Saver Purpose Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

    Post #2 Individual games supported by each of the 3 versions Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

    Post #6 DMD Saver Install - Williams WPC (DMD Saver Version 2) Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

    Post #27 DMD Saver Install - WPC95 Version Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)


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    #63 8 years ago

    Hi,
    I did not read every post, but I didn't spot an answer to this. When a DMD is outgassing it draws more current hence puts a heavy load on the power supply components, which may in turn fry some components such as bridge rectifiers.
    Does your product isolate this to the DMD saver board, so if anything gets damaged it would be that board and nothing else?
    Or would it reduce the current enough to eliminate the problem altogether?
    How would you know enough is enough and the DMD needs to be replaced with or without the board?

    Thanks!
    Phil

    #65 8 years ago

    I'd have to go back and look into it, but I had to replace a bridge rectifier that was fried, and I believe on the path to the large DMD. I blew up a fuse on the power supply board when doing the screen test, when it's fully lit up as well.
    I'd need to go back and look which fuse and which rectifier, but pretty sure it puts some stress on the power supply as well.

    #67 8 years ago

    Well don't quote me on that just yet, I'll go back and look tonight...

    #68 8 years ago

    But in the meantime, for the sake of discussion, how does this product extend the life of the DMD?
    The outgassing is a result of a seal that's slowly leaking, correct? This will not stop this process, but the point of the DMD saver is to put less stress on the electronic components of the DMD itself, and the power supply as well (for sure in the case of "regular" DMDs, to be verified for large ones) is that right?

    #71 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Outgassing is also caused by contamination of the gas from microscopic particles being ejected by the electrodes during normal use.

    Oh, so the DMD saver helps on that end of things then.

    #73 8 years ago

    I'm not finding much info about it - I'm interested, but I'd definitely like to know more before I get it...

    #75 8 years ago

    Oh I didn't realize we had the inventor right here with us.
    Ok, looking forward to more details!

    Thanks
    Phil

    #77 8 years ago

    Thank you for your answer, your english is better than my german.
    So, you are positive that an outgassing DMD does not put any stress on any components then? It's safe to play a game with an outgassing DMD until it's dead and gone?

    And basically, what your product does is lower the voltage on a good DMD to the minimum needed and lower the refresh rate of each dot to increase their lifespan?
    Now if my DMD is already outgassing, thus needing a higher voltage, can it be adjusted to feed a higher voltage to squeeze longer life out of it?

    #81 8 years ago

    Well, many thanks for the explanations.
    I haven't had the time to check, but I'll see if the display tests blow a fuse on my power supply. I would guess that if they do it would logically be the +5V.
    In the meantime I'll look into getting my display repaired, and might spring for your product once it is.

    Thank you for your answers.

    #83 8 years ago

    So... in theory... one that has a 192x64 DMD that barely lights up anymore (only after a few minutes of heating up, say), could increase the voltage with the theoretical solution you outlined to light it back up, then once this theoretical solution has brought back the DMD to life to the expense of even faster aging.
    Then put a DMD saver to lower the duty cycle and even things out, protecting the DMD.

    Of course, this being theoretical, and not knowing exactly the state of the DMD, but say one that has been working with a dark corner until recently and now only lights up after being on 5 minutes... do you think enough life can be squeezed out of it to justify going through the work?

    ...Theoretically, of course...

    #86 8 years ago

    4 192x64s left at Vishay for 663$ a pop + shipping.
    Considering it's not high value machines that use them it's hard to justify the investment, also considering that there seems to be a couple replacement solutions already implemented (DMD extender) or on the verge of being potentially available (LED boards).

    #89 8 years ago
    Quoted from german-pinball:

    In theory, that works, but there is a practical problem.
    Above we spoke about the Bally/WMS controller boards.
    But the large DMD 192x64 are used in DATA-EAST/SEGA machines only. See the following.
    For example, DE/SEGA Frankenstein, there are in the DMD 192 columns and 64 rows (192x64). The data interface is identical to that of WPC devices. The only difference is, that more columns and rows are to be served.
    Due to the twice the number of rows the (fixed by the CPU) duty cycle is only about 1.5%. For a brand new display, that is good, because the shorter the duty cycle, the better. But if the display ages and the cells become corroded more and more, it is clear, that the cells become dimmer and dimmer and as the duty cycle is "only" 1,5%, here the aging of the cells become previously noticeable than on standard panels (128x32).
    The ignition voltage CANNOT be increased as simple (changing 3 z-diodes) as in Bally/WMS machines, as the ignition voltage is generated on the display panel itsself with a small power supply, that itsself is powered by the +18VDC in the pinball machine (The 18V coming from P3 are converted to the following fixed output voltages at P1 - P1-8: +80 vdc, P1-2: -90 vdc (vrw), P1-1: -100 vdc) - this example is for a VISHAY-DALE display - see attached image at the end of this post.
    It would be required a significant effort, to increase the ignition voltage here, e.g. by making a new power supply with a higher output voltage (max. 205 VDC).
    It therefore can only be highly recommended , especially in the large 192x64 displays to use the DMD-Saver as early as possible.

    You make it right, see my last sentence before - and with Rob, you will have the best guy at you side.
    Sega Frankenstein.JPG

    Well, thank you again for the detailed explanations.
    I guess I'll just have to be on standby to see which replacement solution makes the most sense, I guess at the point I'm at I'll probably have to look into the DMD extender solution.

    Cheers
    Phil

    1 week later
    #90 8 years ago

    So you guys had me doubting my misinformed diagnosis... Reseated all connectors to the dmd and reseated the fuse, and it lights right up and stays on.
    I do have one corner that's a little darker, which shows signs of """ outgassing """, so I guess I'd be a good candidate for the dmd extender after all.

    1 week later
    #92 8 years ago

    Mine's in the mail, I'll post an update here...

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