(Topic ID: 122627)

DMD Saver from German-Pinball - Vid's Review


By vid1900

5 years ago



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  • 27 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by C_S_S
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    #51 4 years ago
    Quoted from JBBOPT:

    trying to find a link to buy it on the german website or lockwhenlit.com not seeing a place to buy it specifically, will be contacting them via email, but if anyone knows where a page might be let me know.

    I never received my initial shipment from Ingo. I can't get a reply from him after many attempts. I really have no idea what's going on, but am very frustrated, and apologize to anyone wanting to get one of these from me.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    3 months later
    #52 4 years ago
    Quoted from Borygard:

    I never received my initial shipment from Ingo. I can't get a reply from him after many attempts.

    Did this ever get solved. This product looks sweet.

    #53 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinballnut3:

    Did this ever get solved. This product looks sweet.

    YES, all is OK. The package with many DMD-Savers for Rob is shipped and already in the US and will be delivered to Rob in the next 3-5 days.

    Tracking the package says following:
    GARDEN CITY, NY, USA
    Sunday, September 6, 2015 6:03 AM
    DEPARTED USPS FACILITY

    #54 4 years ago

    Awesome. Just making sure your ok. You have ALWAYS had amazing customer service and great products!

    DMD-SAVERS are sweet!

    #55 4 years ago

    Yes these should be here this week. I'll have them available at Expo, and may list them on my site if there's interest for ordering in the US.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #56 4 years ago

    These are now available on my site and at shows I set up at...

    www.LockWhenLit.com/products.htm

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #57 4 years ago

    Did they change the version number? according to vid it should be version 3 for my tales from the crypt, but you have it listed on your site as version 2 , I would like to order one , just want to make sure it is the right version, thank you

    #58 4 years ago
    Quoted from bobbyt:

    Did they change the version number? according to vid it should be version 3 for my Tales from the Crypt, but you have it listed on your site as version 2 , I would like to order one , just want to make sure it is the right version, thank you

    Sorry, you did not read correctly You have Data East MPU-Version 3!!! You need DMD-Saver Version 2!!!!

    Beginning in post #45, there is an execellent installation guide by mbott1701.

    #59 4 years ago

    Sorry, it gets a bit confusing the way it's listed. The "Version 3" of vid's list is referring to the DE MPU version number, not the version number of the DMD Saver. So, my site is correct, DE games will use Version 2 of the DMD Saver.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #60 4 years ago

    Thank you for clearing that up , I just ordered a version 2 from your site, thanks!

    #61 4 years ago

    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    ** DMD-SAVER VERSION 1:
    ** ====================
    **
    ** MPU Sega/Stern Whitestar
    ** Apollo 13, Austin Powers, Godzilla, Goldeneye, Harley-Davidson, Harley-Davidson, High Roller Casino,
    ** Independence Day, Irons & Woods, Lost In Space, Mini-Viper, Monopoly, Playboy, Rollercoaster Tycoon,
    ** Sharkey's Shootout, South Park, Space Jam, Star Wars Trilogy, Starship Troopers, Striker Xtreme,
    ** Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines, The Brain, The Lost World Jurassic Park, The Simpsons Pinball Party,
    ** The X Files, Twister, Viper Night Drivin'
    **
    ** MPU Stern Whitestar (modified)
    ** Elvis, Grand Prix, Nascar, Ripley's Believe It or Not!, The Lord of the Rings, The Sopranos
    **
    ** Stern S.A.M. Board System
    ** 24, AC/DC (LUCI Premium), AC/DC (Premium), AC/DC (Pro), AC/DC Back In Black Limited Edition,
    ** AC/DC Let There Be Rock Limited Edition, Batman, Batman (Standard Model), Big Buck Hunter Pro,
    ** Black Spider-Man™,CSI, Disney TRON Legacy, Disney TRON Legacy (3rd Edition),
    ** Disney TRON Legacy (4th Edition), Disney TRON Legacy (Limited Edition), Family Guy,
    ** Good Morning America, Indiana Jones, Iron Man, Iron Man (Pro Vault Edition), Iron Man Classic,
    ** James Cameron’s Avatar, James Cameron’s Avatar (Limited Edition), Metallica (Premium Monsters),
    ** Metallica (Premium Road Case), Metallica (Pro LED), Metallica (Pro),
    ** Metallica Master of Puppets (Limited Edition), Mustang (Limited Edition), Mustang (Premium "Boss"),
    ** Mustang (Pro), NBA, Pirates of the Caribbean, Shrek™, Spider-Man, Star Trek (Enterprise Limited Edition),
    ** Star Trek (Starfleet Pro), Star Trek (Vengeance Premium), The Avengers (Limited Edition),
    ** The Avengers (Premium), The Avengers (Pro) Stern, The Avengers Hulk (Limited Edition),
    ** The Lord of the Rings (Limited Edition), The Rolling Stones, The Rolling Stones (Limited Edition),
    ** The Walking Dead (Limited Edition), The Walking Dead (Pro), Transformers The Pin™, Transformers™ (Pro),
    ** Transformers™ Autobot Crimson Limited Edition, Transformers™ Decepticon Violet Limited Edition,
    ** Transformers™ Limited Edition ("Combo"), Wheel of Fortune, World Poker Tour™, X-Men (Pro),
    ** X-Men Magneto LE, X-Men Wolverine LE
    **
    ** CAPCOM
    ** Airborne, Big Bang Bar, Breakshot Capcom, Flipper Football, Kingpin, Pinball Magic
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    .
    .
    .
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    ** DMD-SAVER VERSION 2:
    ** ====================
    **
    ** WPC (DCS)
    ** Demolition Man, Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure, Judge Dredd, Popeye Saves the Earth,
    ** Star Trek: The Next Generation
    **
    ** WPC (DOT Matrix)
    ** Gilligan's Island, Hot Shot Midway, Hurricane Williams, SlugFest (First Model), SlugFest (Second Model),
    ** Terminator 2: Judgment Day, The Party Zone
    **
    **
    WPC (Fliptronics 1)
    ** The Addams Family
    **
    **
    WPC (Fliptronics 2)
    ** Black Rose, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Doctor Who, Fish Tales Williams,
    ** The Addams Family Special Collectors Edition, The Getaway: High Speed II, Twilight Zone, White Water,
    **
    ** WPC-S
    ** Corvette, Dirty Harry, Indianapolis 500, Jack·Bot Williams, Johnny Mnemonic, No Fear: Dangerous Sports,
    ** Red & Ted's Road Show, The Flintstones, The Pinball Circus, The Shadow, Theatre of Magic, WHO dunnit,
    ** World Cup Soccer
    **
    ** GOTTLIEB System 3 (machines with DMD-Displays)
    ** Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. Mushroom World, Cue Ball Wizard, Street Fighter II, Tee'd Off,
    ** Wipe Out, Gladiators, World Challenge Soccer, Rescue 911, FREDDY A Nightmare on Elm Street,
    ** Shaq Attaq, 22 Stargate, Frank Thomas' Big Hurt™, Strikes 'N Spares, Waterworld, Mario Andretti,
    ** Barb Wire, 22 Brooks & Dunn
    **
    ** Does NOT work in the following GOTTLIEB System 3 machines (NO DMD-Display)!!!!!!!!!
    ** Bullseye, Caribbean Cruise, Lights...Camera...Action!, Silver Slugger, Vegas, Deadly Weapon,
    ** Title Fight Premier, Bell Ringer, Nudge-It, Car Hop, Hoops, Cactus Jack's, Class of 1812,
    ** Surf 'n Safari, Operation: Thunder
    **
    ** MPU DataEast/Sega Version 3
    ** adventures of rocky and bullwinkle and Friends, Back to the Future, Batman Data East, Checkpoint,
    ** Guns N' Roses, Hook, Jurassic Park, Last Action Hero, Lethal Weapon 3, Star Trek Data East, Star Wars,
    ** Tales from the Crypt Data East, 22 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, The Simpsons,
    ** The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizard, WWF Royal Rumble
    **
    ** MPU DataEast/Sega Version 3b
    ** Batman Forever, Baywatch, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Maverick, Roach Racers
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    .
    .
    .
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    ** DMD-SAVER VERSION WPC-95:
    ** ==================
    ** Attack from Mars, Cactus Canyon, Cirqus Voltaire, Congo, Junk Yard Williams, Medieval Madness,
    ** Monster Bash, NBA Fastbreak, No Good Gofers, Safe Cracker, Scared Stiff, Tales of the Arabian Nights,
    ** The Champion Pub Midway, Ticket Tac Toe
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************

    Added 19 months ago:

    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    ** DMD-SAVER VERSION 1:
    ** ====================
    **
    ** MPU Stern Whitestar (modified)
    ** Elvis, Grand Prix, Nascar, Ripley's Believe It or Not!, The Lord of the Rings, The Sopranos
    **
    ** Stern S.A.M. Board System
    ** 24, AC/DC (LUCI Premium), AC/DC (Premium), AC/DC (Pro), AC/DC Back In Black Limited Edition,
    ** AC/DC Let There Be Rock Limited Edition, Batman, Batman (Standard Model), Big Buck Hunter Pro,
    ** Black Spider-Man™,CSI, Disney TRON Legacy, Disney TRON Legacy (3rd Edition),
    ** Disney TRON Legacy (4th Edition), Disney TRON Legacy (Limited Edition), Family Guy,
    ** Good Morning America, Indiana Jones, Iron Man, Iron Man (Pro Vault Edition), Iron Man Classic,
    ** James Cameron’s Avatar, James Cameron’s Avatar (Limited Edition), Metallica (Premium Monsters),
    ** Metallica (Premium Road Case), Metallica (Pro LED), Metallica (Pro),
    ** Metallica Master of Puppets (Limited Edition), Mustang (Limited Edition), Mustang (Premium "Boss"),
    ** Mustang (Pro), NBA, Pirates of the Caribbean, Shrek™, Spider-Man, Star Trek (Enterprise Limited Edition),
    ** Star Trek (Starfleet Pro), Star Trek (Vengeance Premium), The Avengers (Limited Edition),
    ** The Avengers (Premium), The Avengers (Pro) Stern, The Avengers Hulk (Limited Edition),
    ** The Lord of the Rings (Limited Edition), The Rolling Stones, The Rolling Stones (Limited Edition),
    ** The Walking Dead (Limited Edition), The Walking Dead (Pro), Transformers The Pin™, Transformers™ (Pro),
    ** Transformers™ Autobot Crimson Limited Edition, Transformers™ Decepticon Violet Limited Edition,
    ** Transformers™ Limited Edition ("Combo"), Wheel of Fortune, World Poker Tour™, X-Men (Pro),
    ** X-Men Magneto LE, X-Men Wolverine LE
    **
    ** CAPCOM
    ** Airborne, Big Bang Bar, Breakshot Capcom, Flipper Football, Kingpin, Pinball Magic
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    .
    .
    .
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    ** DMD-SAVER VERSION 2:
    ** ====================
    **
    ** WPC (DCS)
    ** Demolition Man, Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure, Judge Dredd, Popeye Saves the Earth,
    ** Star Trek: The Next Generation
    **
    ** WPC (DOT Matrix)
    ** Gilligan's Island, Hot Shot Midway, Hurricane Williams, SlugFest (First Model), SlugFest (Second Model),
    ** Terminator 2: Judgment Day, The Party Zone
    **
    ** WPC (Fliptronics 1)
    ** The Addams Family
    **
    ** WPC (Fliptronics 2)
    ** Black Rose, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Creature from the Black Lagoon, Doctor Who, Fish Tales Williams,
    ** The Addams Family Special Collectors Edition, The Getaway: High Speed II, Twilight Zone, White Water,
    **
    ** WPC-S
    ** Corvette, Dirty Harry, Indianapolis 500, Jack·Bot Williams, Johnny Mnemonic, No Fear: Dangerous Sports,
    ** Red & Ted's Road Show, The Flintstones, The Pinball Circus, The Shadow, Theatre of Magic, WHO dunnit,
    ** World Cup Soccer
    **
    ** GOTTLIEB System 3 (machines with DMD-Displays)
    ** Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. Mushroom World, Cue Ball Wizard, Street Fighter II, Tee'd Off,
    ** Wipe Out, Gladiators, World Challenge Soccer, Rescue 911, FREDDY A Nightmare on Elm Street,
    ** Shaq Attaq, 22 Stargate, Frank Thomas' Big Hurt™, Strikes 'N Spares, Waterworld, Mario Andretti,
    ** Barb Wire, 22 Brooks & Dunn
    **
    ** Does NOT work in the following GOTTLIEB System 3 machines (NO DMD-Display)!!!!!!!!!
    ** Bullseye, Caribbean Cruise, Lights...Camera...Action!, Silver Slugger, Vegas, Deadly Weapon,
    ** Title Fight Premier, Bell Ringer, Nudge-It, Car Hop, Hoops, Cactus Jack's, Class of 1812,
    ** Surf 'n Safari, Operation: Thunder
    **
    ** MPU DataEast/Sega Version 3
    ** adventures of rocky and bullwinkle and Friends, Back to the Future, Batman Data East, Checkpoint,
    ** Guns N' Roses, Hook, Jurassic Park, Last Action Hero, Lethal Weapon 3, Star Trek Data East, Star Wars,
    ** Tales from the Crypt Data East, 22 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, The Simpsons,
    ** The Who's Tommy Pinball Wizard, WWF Royal Rumble
    **
    ** MPU DataEast/Sega Version 3b
    ** Batman Forever, Baywatch, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Maverick, Roach Racers
    **
    ** MPU Sega/Stern Whitestar
    ** Apollo 13, Austin Powers, Godzilla, Goldeneye, Harley-Davidson, Harley-Davidson, High Roller Casino,
    ** Independence Day, Irons & Woods, Lost In Space, Mini-Viper, Monopoly, Playboy, Rollercoaster Tycoon,
    ** Sharkey's Shootout, South Park, Space Jam, Star Wars Trilogy, Starship Troopers, Striker Xtreme,
    ** Terminator 3 Rise of the Machines, The Brain, The Lost World Jurassic Park, The Simpsons Pinball Party,
    ** The X Files, Twister, Viper Night Drivin'
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    .
    .
    .
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************
    ** DMD-SAVER VERSION WPC-95:
    ** ==================
    ** Attack from Mars, Cactus Canyon, Cirqus Voltaire, Congo, Junk Yard Williams, Medieval Madness,
    ** Monster Bash, NBA Fastbreak, No Good Gofers, Safe Cracker, Scared Stiff, Tales of the Arabian Nights,
    ** The Champion Pub Midway, Ticket Tac Toe
    *******************************************************************************************
    *******************************************************************************************

    1 week later
    #62 4 years ago

    Perfect list. Thanks Ingo!

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    2 weeks later
    #63 4 years ago

    Hi,
    I did not read every post, but I didn't spot an answer to this. When a DMD is outgassing it draws more current hence puts a heavy load on the power supply components, which may in turn fry some components such as bridge rectifiers.
    Does your product isolate this to the DMD saver board, so if anything gets damaged it would be that board and nothing else?
    Or would it reduce the current enough to eliminate the problem altogether?
    How would you know enough is enough and the DMD needs to be replaced with or without the board?

    Thanks!
    Phil

    #64 4 years ago

    Large displays generate their own high voltage, so it should be isolated to the display.

    #65 4 years ago

    I'd have to go back and look into it, but I had to replace a bridge rectifier that was fried, and I believe on the path to the large DMD. I blew up a fuse on the power supply board when doing the screen test, when it's fully lit up as well.
    I'd need to go back and look which fuse and which rectifier, but pretty sure it puts some stress on the power supply as well.

    #66 4 years ago

    Wow, that's the first time I've heard of this type of issue with a large display.

    #67 4 years ago

    Well don't quote me on that just yet, I'll go back and look tonight...

    #68 4 years ago

    But in the meantime, for the sake of discussion, how does this product extend the life of the DMD?
    The outgassing is a result of a seal that's slowly leaking, correct? This will not stop this process, but the point of the DMD saver is to put less stress on the electronic components of the DMD itself, and the power supply as well (for sure in the case of "regular" DMDs, to be verified for large ones) is that right?

    #69 4 years ago

    Regarding Version 1; Doesn't AC/DC Luci premium have an LED dmd screen? Does this product work with LED dmds to prevent lines going out?

    #70 4 years ago

    Outgassing is also caused by contamination of the gas from microscopic particles being ejected by the electrodes during normal use.

    #71 4 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Outgassing is also caused by contamination of the gas from microscopic particles being ejected by the electrodes during normal use.

    Oh, so the DMD saver helps on that end of things then.

    #72 4 years ago

    Don't take my word for it but I would think this is correct. I believe the main objective though is to reduce burn-in like a screensaver on an old CRT computer monitor.

    #73 4 years ago

    I'm not finding much info about it - I'm interested, but I'd definitely like to know more before I get it...

    #74 4 years ago

    I will post more infos this evening, I am actually in my office.

    #75 4 years ago

    Oh I didn't realize we had the inventor right here with us.
    Ok, looking forward to more details!

    Thanks
    Phil

    #76 4 years ago
    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    Oh I didn't realize we had the inventor right here with us.
    Ok, looking forward to more details!
    Thanks
    Phil

    At first - sorry for my bad englsih following, but I do not know all technical words in english.

    Here is a bit technical background:

    It is well known, that plasma panels age.

    First of all it has to be cleaned up with an old pinball legend ("outgassing"). It is NOT the way, that over time the gas escapes from single cells. At most, the glass sandwich is leaking, and then the gas is completely gone and the panel does not work anymore.

    Rather the electrodes tire and were there not a little mercury in it, the process of this aging would occur much earlier. Due to this wear of the electrodes, the gas mixture in the cells can also be contaminated. In addition, the lamp-cells become weaker and dimmer.

    You can read here and there, that aged panels draw too much current and should be replaced for that reason in a near time. This is NOT the case, but also a here and there rumored pinball legend.
    In fact, the ignition-current decreases with increasing aging, the other currents do not change.

    The lower the voltage is at the cells, the less is the flow of current, which saves electrodes as same as fluorescent-lighting.

    How then was the former way, for example, to save a new display?

    With a new plasma panel it can be quite useful, to reduce the ignition voltage to about 165 VDC by reducing the anode or cathode voltage. Therfore however a Zener diode needs to be replaced on the original dmd-controller-board. If a DMD then so far decayed, that individual pixels became weaker or no longer light up, the ignition again had to be increased in several steps, until the maximum value of 205 V was reached. In this way, the life of the Cells could be increased.
    This method was described in www.pinrepair.com and elsewhere, but not everyone's cup of tea, because there must be soldered on the controller board and the board has to be taken off the machine.

    In January 2009 we have found out, that the same effect as reducing the ignition voltage can be reached by reducing the duty cycle (hereinafter referred to as "DC") of each individual gas-cell.
    And this is realized by the DMD-SAVER-PCB.

    During a refresh cycle only 1 of 32 rows is active.
    The DC of the cells thus is only about 3%. At 100% it would be damaged.
    A further reduction must therefore affect the cells in the same manner as a reduction in the ignition voltage. And it does.

    When using the DMD-SAVER-PCB the signal Display_Enable, which unfortunately is fixed on the controller board by the Pinball manufacturers, can decreased continously via a potentiometer (POT R8), so that NO components have to be replaced. The DMD-Saver is plug & play.
    In addition, you can get exactly the point where the pixels start to get darker.

    In short and to the point: With can reduce the duty cycle of each plasma cell, these age slower and you increase the life of your display dramatically, if you "down ride"/"dim down" this just a little bit.

    LED panels do not have to be saved in this way. Here you can get a reduction in luminosity, because LED panels are often perceived as too bright. A change of the LED supply voltage is not considered here, because the ICs are fed to the panel from the same source.
    When using the DMD-SAVER-PCB however, these panels can be dimmed as required.

    The DMD-SAVER-PCB performs another function, specifically for the purpose of the review, whether the panel glass or the controller is faulty.
    If a panel is dark and the cause can after all measurements only be there, it can be easily stated with an oscilloscope, whether glass or controller board is defective.

    The problem is, that you do not know which pixel pattern is present just for display and that it constantly changes. It is therefore sensible from the control side, to enable all cells.
    This is realized by the DMD-SAVER-PCB in the way that permanently "1" is pushed into the column shift registers, so that all pixels with intact panel light. The correct signals must therefore be present at all of column and row connectors, when the control on the panel is ok.

    On the DMD-SAVER-PCB (activation of all cells) this manipulation can be done with switch W1.

    #77 4 years ago

    Thank you for your answer, your english is better than my german.
    So, you are positive that an outgassing DMD does not put any stress on any components then? It's safe to play a game with an outgassing DMD until it's dead and gone?

    And basically, what your product does is lower the voltage on a good DMD to the minimum needed and lower the refresh rate of each dot to increase their lifespan?
    Now if my DMD is already outgassing, thus needing a higher voltage, can it be adjusted to feed a higher voltage to squeeze longer life out of it?

    #78 4 years ago
    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    ...
    So, you are positive that an outgassing DMD does not put any stress on any components then? It's safe to play a game with an outgassing DMD until it's dead and gone?...

    You again use the word "outgassing"

    As I said it is an old pinball legend. It is NOT the way, that over time the gas escapes from single cells. At most, the glass sandwich is leaking, and then the gas is completely gone and the panel does not work anymore.

    If your display is leaking, there is the end of the story.

    So you mean, your display is at the end of its life, because the electrodes in the gas cells are tired and aged because of internal corrosion (the gas mixture in the cells is contaminated) and therefore the lamp-cells become weaker and dimmer.

    And YES, IMO it is safe, to play a game with an "outgassing" DMD until it is dead and gone (under the premise, that the display is at the end of its life, because the electrodes in the gas cells are tired and aged - if there is a short circuit or so on the board, it is naturaly not safe).

    And as I already said in post #76, you can read here and there, that aged panels draw too much current and should be replaced for that reason in a near time. This is NOT the case, but also a here and there rumored pinball legend. In fact, the ignition-current decreases with increasing aging, the other currents do not change.

    See, what was written on www.pinrepair.com a few years ago:
    "... The unfortunate part about dot matrix displays (DMD) is they wear out. Time will eventually kill these, and the display will "outgas" and fail. Because of the high voltage involved with score displays, the anode and/or cathode inside the diplay glass breaks down. This results in the "outgassing" of impurities that eventually change the internal gas properties, so the display won't glow (the gas must be very pure for the display to work). Often the gaps that don't light up at power-on will gradually come on as the display warms up. This happens because as the existing gas warms up, it expands. A new display will solve this problem, and is easy to get and replace (a 5 minute job). These do cost a bit of money though at about $115 each (complete). There is no way to fix an old "outgassed" display.
    When a DMD starts to get blurry or displays gaps, the rumor is the power requirements for the display increases. It turns out this rumor is actually incorrect, at least as far as the High Voltage (-120 and +65 volts) is concerned. The HV (high voltage) power used by a display is directly proportional to the number of dots lit on the display. If a display is entirely outgassed and not lighting (even though the CPU is asking the display to lit), it will consume no more HV (high voltage) than a working display that is not lit. Kirb did some test of various displays and metered the results, proving this. ..."

    Is the +5V stressed by an "outgassed" display more?
    See, what was written on www.pinrepair.com to this point a few years ago:
    "... But what about the 5 volt consumption? Unfortunately we did not do enough testing of the 5 volts to draw any conclusions. But based on reports of outgassed displays causing game resets (stressing the 5 volt supply), it is reasonable to think that an outgassed DMD does consume more 5 volt power. Another interesting fact is that certain DMD makes consume more 5 volt power than others. The biggest 5 volt power hog is Dale/Visay, consuming nearly twice what other DMD displays use. Regardless, I still encourage people to buy a new display if theirs is outgassed. The 5 volt power stress, particularly on games like Twilight Zone, can cause potential game reset problems. ..."

    IMO it is also a legend and a rumor, that the +5V is stressed more. Only the ignition-current descreases wit increasing aging.

    Hope, this answers your first question - SAFE.

    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    ...
    And basically, what your product does is lower the voltage on a good DMD to the minimum needed and lower the refresh rate of each dot to increase their lifespan? ...

    The DMD-Saver does NOT lower any voltage. The ignition voltage is fixed on the DMD-Controller-Board, e.g. Williams 187V, Data East 178V, Gottlieb 174V, Capcom 178V and the newer Sterns 180V.

    As you know, the WPC schemtics are wrong - the ignition voltage is often only 176V and not 187V.

    As the voltages are fixed, we cannot change any voltage with the DMD-Saver.

    Instead, we reduce the duty cycle of each 4096 single gas-cells. This has the same effect as reducing the ignition voltage. The cells are no longer active 3% of the time, but (set by the poti) a shorter time, e.g. 2%. This reduction must therefore affect the cells in the same manner as a reduction in the ignition voltage. And it does.

    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    ...
    Now if my DMD is already outgassing, thus needing a higher voltage, can it be adjusted to feed a higher voltage to squeeze longer life out of it? ...

    NO, you CANNOT adjust a higher voltage with the DMD-Saver. The reason is, that the ignition voltage is fixed on the DMD-Controller-Board. You also cannot increase the duty cycle, because this is also fixed by the CPU.

    Normally I do not give any tips to work in the high-voltage-area.

    As a precaution, my following remarks are purely theoretical.

    In short:
    You know, Williams fixed the ignition voltage on their DMD-Controller-Boards to 187V, later changed that to only 176V, to protect (the lower the ignition voltage, the lower the aging of the cells, see above!!) there brandnew displays.
    You now see, why some display, that do no longer work e.g. in Gottlieb work in a Williams machine - because the ignition voltage is higher.

    Possible without any problems is an ignition voltage of 205V.
    That could be done as follows on a Williams DMD-Controller-Board:

    - change Z-Diode D3 (1N4759A = 62V) to 1N4761A( 75V)
    - change Z-Diodes D4 + D5 (1N4758A - 56V) to 1N4759A (62V)

    After these changes, your ignition voltage is about 200V - this is absolute in specs with all used chips as they are the anode and kathode drivers.

    This could bring a very aged (not outgassed!!!) display back to life.
    Now you have the following: Full ignition voltage, full duty cycle of each cell. Clear, that the display ages faster now, because the ignition voltage is higher now. If you now use the DMD-Saver, you can reduce the duty cycle to protect the - now fully driven - cells.

    AGAIN: As a precaution, these remarks are purely theoretical.

    WARNING: There is high voltage for the displays. These voltages are around +62 and -125 and 187 volts and this is very dangerous. Take care, if you do not have any experience with it!!!!! Do not touch the board in anyway, while the game is on!!!!!

    Hope, all questions are answered now.

    #79 4 years ago

    great info. I never heard of this till now.

    Rob > make sure you have the version for Baywatch on hand at expo and I will grab one form you.

    #80 4 years ago

    Rob will have all versions on expo.

    #81 4 years ago

    Well, many thanks for the explanations.
    I haven't had the time to check, but I'll see if the display tests blow a fuse on my power supply. I would guess that if they do it would logically be the +5V.
    In the meantime I'll look into getting my display repaired, and might spring for your product once it is.

    Thank you for your answers.

    #82 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    great info. I never heard of this till now.
    Rob > make sure you have the version for Baywatch on hand at expo and I will grab one form you.

    No worries my friend, I'll have one ready for you.

    Thanks Ingo for your detailed explanations. It's a great product to ensure DMDs last as long as they can.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #83 4 years ago

    So... in theory... one that has a 192x64 DMD that barely lights up anymore (only after a few minutes of heating up, say), could increase the voltage with the theoretical solution you outlined to light it back up, then once this theoretical solution has brought back the DMD to life to the expense of even faster aging.
    Then put a DMD saver to lower the duty cycle and even things out, protecting the DMD.

    Of course, this being theoretical, and not knowing exactly the state of the DMD, but say one that has been working with a dark corner until recently and now only lights up after being on 5 minutes... do you think enough life can be squeezed out of it to justify going through the work?

    ...Theoretically, of course...

    #84 4 years ago

    For the 192x64 used in BMF, Baywatch, Frankenstein, and Maverick, yes I might do exactly what you're thinking. They're very expensive and difficult to get displays, it would be worth the effort. A regular 128x32, not so much, just replace the DMD if it's that far gone.

    Using the DMD Saver in the Sega large display games is very wise IMHO, their replacement cost is such that the minor DMD Saver cost is well worth extending the life of the DMD.

    With the cost of regular plasma displays increasing every day because no one is making them any more, using the DMD Saver in all games is a good idea. But, for the hugely expensive, difficult to get large Sega displays, it's a no-brainer.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #85 4 years ago

    So at this point 128x32 plasma displays are now out of production? I'm assuming the same for the 192x64s.

    #86 4 years ago

    4 192x64s left at Vishay for 663$ a pop + shipping.
    Considering it's not high value machines that use them it's hard to justify the investment, also considering that there seems to be a couple replacement solutions already implemented (DMD extender) or on the verge of being potentially available (LED boards).

    #87 4 years ago

    Just put in an order with Rob to extend the life of my Baywatch. Pretty amazing that within 5 minutes of my order Rob sent the tracking number

    LockWhenLit rules

    #88 4 years ago
    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    So... in theory... one that has a 192x64 DMD that barely lights up anymore (only after a few minutes of heating up, say), could increase the voltage with the theoretical solution you outlined to light it back up, then once this theoretical solution has brought back the DMD to life to the expense of even faster aging.
    Then put a DMD saver to lower the duty cycle and even things out, protecting the DMD.
    Of course, this being theoretical, and not knowing exactly the state of the DMD, but say one that has been working with a dark corner until recently and now only lights up after being on 5 minutes... do you think enough life can be squeezed out of it to justify going through the work?
    ...Theoretically, of course...

    In theory, that works, but there is a practical problem.

    Above we spoke about the Bally/WMS controller boards.

    But the large DMD 192x64 are used in DATA-EAST/SEGA machines only. See the following.
    For example, DE/SEGA Frankenstein, there are in the DMD 192 columns and 64 rows (192x64). The data interface is identical to that of WPC devices. The only difference is, that more columns and rows are to be served.

    Due to the twice the number of rows the (fixed by the CPU) duty cycle is only about 1.5%. For a brand new display, that is good, because the shorter the duty cycle, the better. But if the display ages and the cells become corroded more and more, it is clear, that the cells become dimmer and dimmer and as the duty cycle is "only" 1,5%, here the aging of the cells become previously noticeable than on standard panels (128x32).

    The ignition voltage CANNOT be increased as simple (changing 3 z-diodes) as in Bally/WMS machines, as the ignition voltage is generated on the display panel itsself with a small power supply, that itsself is powered by the +18VDC in the pinball machine (The 18V coming from P3 are converted to the following fixed output voltages at P1 - P1-8: +80 vdc, P1-2: -90 vdc (vrw), P1-1: -100 vdc) - this example is for a VISHAY-DALE display - see attached image at the end of this post.

    It would be required a significant effort, to increase the ignition voltage here, e.g. by making a new power supply with a higher output voltage (max. 205 VDC).

    It therefore can only be highly recommended , especially in the large 192x64 displays to use the DMD-Saver as early as possible.

    Quoted from PinRob:

    Just put in an order with Rob to extend the life of my Baywatch. Pretty amazing that within 5 minutes of my order Rob sent the tracking number
    LockWhenLit rules

    You make it right, see my last sentence before - and with Rob, you will have the best guy at you side.

    Sega Frankenstein.JPG

    #89 4 years ago
    Quoted from german-pinball:

    In theory, that works, but there is a practical problem.
    Above we spoke about the Bally/WMS controller boards.
    But the large DMD 192x64 are used in DATA-EAST/SEGA machines only. See the following.
    For example, DE/SEGA Frankenstein, there are in the DMD 192 columns and 64 rows (192x64). The data interface is identical to that of WPC devices. The only difference is, that more columns and rows are to be served.
    Due to the twice the number of rows the (fixed by the CPU) duty cycle is only about 1.5%. For a brand new display, that is good, because the shorter the duty cycle, the better. But if the display ages and the cells become corroded more and more, it is clear, that the cells become dimmer and dimmer and as the duty cycle is "only" 1,5%, here the aging of the cells become previously noticeable than on standard panels (128x32).
    The ignition voltage CANNOT be increased as simple (changing 3 z-diodes) as in Bally/WMS machines, as the ignition voltage is generated on the display panel itsself with a small power supply, that itsself is powered by the +18VDC in the pinball machine (The 18V coming from P3 are converted to the following fixed output voltages at P1 - P1-8: +80 vdc, P1-2: -90 vdc (vrw), P1-1: -100 vdc) - this example is for a VISHAY-DALE display - see attached image at the end of this post.
    It would be required a significant effort, to increase the ignition voltage here, e.g. by making a new power supply with a higher output voltage (max. 205 VDC).
    It therefore can only be highly recommended , especially in the large 192x64 displays to use the DMD-Saver as early as possible.

    You make it right, see my last sentence before - and with Rob, you will have the best guy at you side.
    Sega Frankenstein.JPG

    Well, thank you again for the detailed explanations.
    I guess I'll just have to be on standby to see which replacement solution makes the most sense, I guess at the point I'm at I'll probably have to look into the DMD extender solution.

    Cheers
    Phil

    1 week later
    #90 4 years ago

    So you guys had me doubting my misinformed diagnosis... Reseated all connectors to the dmd and reseated the fuse, and it lights right up and stays on.
    I do have one corner that's a little darker, which shows signs of """ outgassing """, so I guess I'd be a good candidate for the dmd extender after all.

    1 week later
    #91 4 years ago

    Very professional product.
    This might come in handy...

    #92 4 years ago

    Mine's in the mail, I'll post an update here...

    9 months later
    #93 3 years ago

    Installed in my Maverick, thanks to Ingo and mbott1701's instructions post here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dmd-savers-from-german-pinball-vids-review#post-2483343

    Dialed the brightness in just right so all the pixels work, but it's not nearly as (overly!) bright as it was, hoping for many more years life on this display!!

    #94 3 years ago
    Quoted from mavantix:

    Installed in my Maverick, thanks to Ingo and mbott1701's instructions post here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dmd-savers-from-german-pinball-vids-review#post-2483343
    Dialed the brightness in just right so all the pixels work, but it's not nearly as (overly!) bright as it was, hoping for many more years life on this display!!

    I have yet to install mine.

    #95 3 years ago

    It's really easy, takes 5 minutes!

    3 months later
    #96 3 years ago

    I finally got my Jurassic Park pinball and figured I would start off by doing some mod install videos!!

    Here is my first go at it with an install video for the DMD Saver version 2 by german-pinball

    Jurassic Park

    2 years later
    #97 5 months ago

    Are these still being sold regularly?

    Added 86 days ago:

    german-pinball Are these still being sold regularly?

    2 months later
    #98 85 days ago

    A picture of the scotch lock placement for the Maverick install would be much appreciated. I have a Baywatch pin I could install this on. The display controller board looks nearly the same as mine.

    2 months later
    #99 5 days ago

    Anyone used a DMDsaver on an early SAM Stern? I’m trying to determine the best 5v source for the board and haven’t found any version 1 install tutorials yet.

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