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(Topic ID: 263944)

DMD Out of action on LW3! Not ok-ok-ok


By gdonovan

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 31 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by gdonovan
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 months ago

Let me state that this is an electrical trainwreck right off the bat; Parts have been thrown at this pin by other parties and to add to the fire prior owners did some interesting wiring hacks. Fuses? We don't need no stinking fuses! Nor line filters either apparently.

What we have is a Lethal Weapon 3 with a DMD that is non-functional. It has a new Rottendog playfield power board, new power supply board and a new DMD004 controller board. It has a Babcock DMD that I'm told was tested fine in a Williams Star Trek next gen but for the sake of troubleshooting will just mark the condition unknown till proven otherwise. The controller board has a display rom from KS arcade marked LW3 Rom 0. The ribbon cable has been changed with no effect.

Symptoms; If the DMD displays anything at all it will do so when it is cold or off for several minutes. The first picture is showing what come up when first booted after sitting all night. Inside a second or two the screen would start to roll like an old tube TV and go black. Otherwise the game plays fine, all control lights work, sound is perfect.

The first thing I did right off the bat was install a new ac line filter and varister to replace the missing pieces and check continuity & polarity of the cord and plug and repaired the missing or disconnected braid grounds to the head. That done I powered up the machine and measured the following.

Rottendog power board test points.

5V = 4.94 volts
12V = 11.62 volts
-12V = 13.6 volts

Power connector at DMD with DMD unplugged

-103 volts
-100 volts
Ground
Ground
4.9 volts
11.7 volts
72 volts

Power connector at DMD controller with DMD004 unplugged

4.92 volts

The voltages look decent, certainly within a reasonable range. Where do I go from here? I was thinking of sending the DMD control board back to Rottendog and see if they could test it. I'm also considering swapping some parts with my X-files which in theory has an interchangeable DMD and control board but will hold off for now before I put another pin at risk.

Thank you for your input!
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#2 7 months ago

Here is two gifs of the 2 times I was able to get something on the screen. Doesn't look outgassed and all the rows look present.

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#3 7 months ago

The ribbon cable for CN22 is not sitting on the pins correctly:

CN22 (resized).PNG
#4 7 months ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

The ribbon cable for CN22 is not sitting on the pins correctly:[quoted image]

Early picture (which is why I pulled it) fixed it after I took picture and then tried original cable with no change.

#5 7 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Early picture (which is why I pulled it) fixed it after I took picture and then tried original cable with no change.

Ugh bummer, that stuck out and looked like an easy fix, sorry

#6 7 months ago

I can't remember for sure but I think you need to have the CPU version 2.08 along with the display version 2.06. A matched set for the display to to work right.

#7 7 months ago
Quoted from mikat11:

I can't remember for sure but I think you need to have the CPU version 2.08 along with the display version 2.06. A matched set for the display to to work right.

CPU version is 2.08

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#8 7 months ago

Under the assume nothing mantra, I'll check the DMD voltages under load tonight to see if they are being dragged down.

#9 7 months ago

The -112v, -100v, 72v need to be measured under load for sure. I suspect 72v will not change and that seems a bit too high.

One of either -112v or -100v normally reads much lower with the DMD unplugged and I dont recall which one it was, but it is unimportant It is more important to measure the voltages under load. 12 volt separation between the 2 voltages is important. I am highly suspecting this Rottendog power supply as one problem. Whether you have 2 issues, we'll have to see.

#10 7 months ago

Post a picture of the DMD controller board please. I know on the OEM board, you have to remove or add a zero ohm jumper depending if you have 1 or 2 display ROMs installed on the board.

#11 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Post a picture of the DMD controller board please. I know on the OEM board, you have to remove or add a zero ohm jumper depending if you have 1 or 2 display ROMs installed on the board.

It is a Rotten dog DMD004 which out of the box is setup for single rom operation which it has been done. I'll post picture tonight after work.

#12 7 months ago

Yes. It is a good test to swap DMD controller boards, but as mentioned above, depending on whether each game has 1 or 2 display ROMs, the board may have to be configured.

#13 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Yes. It is a good test to swap DMD controller boards, but as mentioned above, depending on whether each game has 1 or 2 display ROMs, the board may have to be configured.

I may tonight burn an x-files display rom to the DMD004 board and try it in x-files, seems low risk. I'll do that AFTER I check the voltages under load in LW3.

#14 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Whether you have 2 issues, we'll have to see.

Poor thing looks like it had a hard life, would not surprise me. Process of elimination and keep narrowing it down. Plays and has a nice playfield so worth the trouble getting her running again.

#15 7 months ago

Your Xfiles should already have a display ROM on the DMD controller board.

First, try wth LW3 board with the LW3 display ROM in Xfiles. I do this type of thing often. You will obviously get some wrong animations, may even see longer times of a blank screen between animations since the CPU ROM will be calling for different things. At least this will test the LW3 display ROM fairly well if the DMD controller board is working, and I expect it will.

I don't recall very many Rottendog DMD controller board failures throughout the years so I expect this board and ROM to test ok.

#16 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Your Xfiles should already have a display ROM on the DMD controller board.

It does of course but I wish to proceed with caution. I have access to the files and 2 burners so making a backup chip trivial.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

First, try wth LW3 board with the LW3 display ROM in Xfiles. I do this type of thing often. You will obviously get some wrong animations, may even see longer times of a blank screen between animations since the CPU ROM will be calling for different things. At least this will test the LW3 display ROM fairly well if the DMD controller board is working, and I expect it will.

Excellent. I was wondering if that was the case but unfamiliar with DMD operation and MPU->DMD communication protocols at this time. This is a good learning experience for me which is one reason I made the purchase.

Question and I know the answer will vary perhaps by title; What happens if you just unplug the DMD data cable from the MPU and boot up? I tried this last night on my x-files as an experiment and all powered up but there was no text or animations on the screen, just a weird shifting pattern.

#17 7 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Question and I know the answer will vary perhaps by title; What happens if you just unplug the DMD data cable from the MPU and boot up? I tried this last night on my x-files as an experiment and all powered up but there was no text or animations on the screen, just a weird shifting pattern.

The Monopoly I have here is just blank as I boot up the game without the DMD contoller board to the MPU board. This would be what I expect to happen. In your case, I would not use that as a failure to be looked at since that cable is normally connected.

#18 7 months ago

If the DMD controller board/display ROM test ok in Xfiles, then you may only have a power supply problem with the high voltages. If you have a ColorDMD, you can install it since the high voltages are not used. If the problem still exists with the ColorDMD, seems you likely will be looking at a MPU board issue. I just hope you don't have 2 issues here.

#19 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

The -112v, -100v, 72v need to be measured under load for sure. I suspect 72v will not change and that seems a bit too high.
One of either -112v or -100v normally reads much lower with the DMD unplugged and I dont recall which one it was, but it is unimportant It is more important to measure the voltages under load. 12 volt separation between the 2 voltages is important. I am highly suspecting this Rottendog power supply as one problem. Whether you have 2 issues, we'll have to see.

Power connector at DMD with DMD unplugged

-103 volts
-100 volts
Ground
Ground
4.9 volts
11.7 volts
72 volts

Power connector at DMD with DMD plugged in.

-100 volts
-99 volts
Ground
Ground
4.9 volts
12.0 volts
65 volts

Only have a 1-3 volt separation on the high voltage line, power supply issue I take it then?

#20 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

The Monopoly I have here is just blank as I boot up the game without the DMD contoller board to the MPU board. This would be what I expect to happen. In your case, I would not use that as a failure to be looked at since that cable is normally connected.

I'm not as I did not know what to expect, I was curious if the display had its own "boot screen" when not connected to the MPU.

Not assuming the high voltage is the only problem, going to head over to x-files and plug in the DMD control board.

#21 7 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Only have a 1-3 volt separation on the high voltage line, power supply issue I take it then?

Correct. That is one issue for sure. There are several Pinside threads on Rottendog power supply failures like this.

I normally only recommend rebuilding the original power supply or going with a new Xpin power supply. Either of these will be more reliable than the Rottendog board.

Again, going with a ColorDMD, there would be no need to repair the high voltage section as it will not be used.

#22 7 months ago

DMD board looks good!
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#23 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Again, going with a ColorDMD, there would be no need to repair the high voltage section as it will not be used.

True but if the display is fine no need to purchase a ColorDMD. I'll be testing the display in a bit.

#24 7 months ago

Display checks out.

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#25 7 months ago

Great. I didn't think of just moving your whole speaker panel over so you could test the DMD, DMD Controller board and display ROM all at once. Ughhh..

#26 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Great. I didn't think of just moving your whole speaker panel over so you could test the DMD, DMD Controller board and display ROM all at once. Ughhh..

Fired off an e-mail to Rottendog to see if they can do anything about the board and if not could they provide me with a schematic and point to what needs to be repaired or replaced. It is a new board but I'm not the original purchaser so I'll not get my hopes up. I am working on a backup plan though.

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#27 7 months ago

With X-pin power supply installed, back in action.

Board looks well made, somewhat annoyed I did not notice an extension was required for one of the four pin molex connectors. For the moment I just pulled the wiring out of the harness and made a shortcut to reach the top of the board.

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#28 7 months ago

Rottendog also back in action.

Mouser electronics order came in same time as the X-pin board.

After making sure the DMD problem was resolved with the installation of the X-pin board I desoldered and replaced the three lower power regulators on the Rottendog board and reinstalled. The board now works perfect and has an 11 volt spread on the high voltage lines. I'm going to hang onto the board as a backup in case I get another machine with a bad power supply.

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#29 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Great. I didn't think of just moving your whole speaker panel over so you could test the DMD, DMD Controller board and display ROM all at once. Ughhh..

Thank you for your help diagnosing, your advice certainly speeded up the process!

#30 7 months ago

No problem. Sorry I did not get back to you on the regulator for the high voltage on the Rottendog board. Things have been busy here. Glad you got it worked out.

#31 7 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

No problem. Sorry I did not get back to you on the regulator for the high voltage on the Rottendog board. Things have been busy here. Glad you got it worked out.

No worries! Now I'm working on another dozen or so issues like installing the beacon, fixing a broken lane guide, stripped out T nuts, polishing metal bits & plastics, tweaking the lighting, replacing a missing diode on a switch, etc.

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