(Topic ID: 148150)

dmd malfunctioning

By Luppin

8 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Pin_Guy
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

Hello my DMD is behaving in a strange way. After switching the game on the display is totally off. After about ten secs an area on the corner of the screen is visibile, and slowly more and more of the screen become visibile. It looks like during some animations there are some kind of dark "waves" over the graphics (see pics). During the display test it looks like all dots are ok (excluding the top two rows).

So: how it comes that certain dots perfectly working are off during some animations? and actually those same animations gets more and more visibile (and finally completely visible) after around 20/30 minutes?

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#2 8 years ago

Seems to me the DMD is outgassing and needs to be replaced. Looking closely, do the dots themselves around the edges look darker/blacker when the game is off?

#3 8 years ago

Could be the dmd, could be the dmd power supply. Check your DMD voltages and rule out the power supply.

#4 8 years ago

Swap DMD with another game. Easy test.

#5 8 years ago

Things to check. Reseat the ribbon cable going to the DMD.
Check all your backbox connections.
Check that the Rom chip and other socketed chips are tight.

Check your voltages on the DMD driver board.
If anything is off replace the caps on the board.

And as others have said if you have another machine. Swap the DMDs.

But the issues you are describing seem like failing capacitors on your DMD driver board. Capacitors have a life of around 10 years. If they are original replace them anyways.
It's probably not an outgassing DMD. As you say all dots light in test. And it works after warming up. Capacitors.

#6 8 years ago

Exactly, I am not a tech guy, but I was thinking that if at some piont the dots work ( as they do) , then it should not be outgassing.

I will try the dmd swap, but I would also like to test the voltages. I am quite new to this: can you explaind where exactly do I have to use the leads of the dmm?

#8 8 years ago

I had a similar issue with a dmd. It was outgassing, and behaved/looked similar to yours. I'll warn you: by playing around with the game with that dmd installed it eventually fried some components on the high voltage section of the dmd power supply circuitry. (One day a fuse blew and i had no display. The outgassing dmd damaged a circuit board!) Be careful! I'd follow above suggestions: swap it with another good known working dmd. If that one works fine, then you know you've got a bad dmd. My best advice, as i said above: don't use it in that condition for too long, as it may cause more damage.

A post above said it could be capacitors, too--they very well may be on target. Just make sure to swap the dmd out if you can to eliminate the possibility that the dmd is outgassing.

#9 8 years ago

ok, tried to swap. With another dmd everything works fine.

So the problem is the old BSD dmd. I still did not understand if it could be a problem with capacitors and not outgassing (hence replacing the capacitors), or if it is definitely outgassing. Are you referring to capacitors ON the dmd, or capacitors on the DMD board? If it's capacitors on dmd, how to test them?

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from Luppin:

ok, tried to swap. With another dmd everything works fine.
So the problem is the old BSD dmd. I still did not understand if it could be a problem with capacitors and not outgassing (hence replacing the capacitors), or if it is definitely outgassing. Are you referring to capacitors ON the dmd, or capacitors on the DMD board? If it's capacitors on dmd, how to test them?

Caps on the DMD board. To test....You need a multimeter that reads mfd.
Micro farads. You can see if they are within specs. But if they were never replaced you should eventually. They were not made to last as long as they have. And leaking caps can stress the other components in the circuit including the DMD itself.

#11 8 years ago

Where to find specs in order to know if readings are within the correct range?
Also, there are many capacitors: which one should I test?

#12 8 years ago

Replace the DMD with a red led version. It will look great in Dracula and it won't matter how good (or bad) your caps are because it won't use the HV section of the board.

#13 8 years ago

There is no real need to test the capacitors if another DMD worked fine in this machine, like Markmon said just replace it with a low voltage LED display then just pull both fuses from the DMD driver board to fully disable the high voltage section.

#14 8 years ago

Id like to try to fix it before replacing.

#15 8 years ago

I both like and respect that "can do" attitude. A good resource for testing the DMD can be found here:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Display_problems

#16 8 years ago

thanks for the link. it says that it can be outgassing or high voltage from the dmd controller board. I am a newbie and I am scared testing the high voltage by myself. Anyway, I already checked an alternative display and it worked perfectly. so it's not a voltage problem, and it should be outgassing.

I still don't understand exactly if the probelm could be also created by capacitors ON THE DMD itself, or not. This is not mentioned in the link you sent. If yes, how exactly to test those capacitors with the dmm?

#17 8 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Things to check. Reseat the ribbon cable going to the DMD.
Check all your backbox connections.
Check that the Rom chip and other socketed chips are tight.
Check your voltages on the DMD driver board.
If anything is off replace the caps on the board.
And as others have said if you have another machine. Swap the DMDs.
But the issues you are describing seem like failing capacitors on your DMD driver board. Capacitors have a life of around 10 years. If they are original replace them anyways.
It's probably not an outgassing DMD. As you say all dots light in test. And it works after warming up. Capacitors.

On the pinwiki posted above I read that typically outgassing problems generate "clouds" that disappears after warming up. So I am not sure your suggestion relatively to capacitors is correct..

#18 8 years ago

The high voltages of your BSD pin may be starting to get too low, low enough that this DMD looks like it does. Putting in a different DMD in this game (and seeing that it works) does not necessarily mean the original DMD is bad. Another DMD may be able to function fine with slightly lower voltages. Take this BSD DMD and put it in another game to see what it does in another game. It may work fine, in which case, you could just swap the displays for now.

If capacitors are bad on the driver board, you will get a scrolling effect like vertical hold out of adjustment on a an old CRT monitor. It won't look like what is shown in the original post. That's either a failing DMD or low HV power. (I'm leaning towards low HV).

#19 8 years ago

thanks much, I 'll try what you suggest. Actually what I get are "moving clouds", and this is what is pictured on the pinwiki link above regarding outgassing.

but give me some time and I will try the opposite dmd swap you suggest.

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from Luppin:

how exactly to test those capacitors with the dmm?

The capacitors function on this board is to filer the remaining AC harmonics (aka ripple) from the DC voltage levels.

The easy way is to check them is to measure the amount of AC ripple riding on the DC voltage. This check is exactly the same as measuring the DC only you set the meter for AC (you need a true RMS volt meter for this). The negative side of the voltmeter will be on ground, you can clip this or stick it under the ground braid. The voltage you are looking for is +62V at J604-8, -113V at J604-2, and -125V at J604-1. Keep in mind, all of these voltage are there whenever the game is powered on, there is no interlock for them. With the meter on AC you should see very little AC voltage, realistically anything under about 500mv I would call good. You can also measure all the DC voltages at the same test points while you are checking these, just set the meter to DC. I usually check with everything connected by putting my meter lead on the metal prongs that bite into the wires on the back of the connector.

The harder way to check these is to use a capacitance meter to measure them, this way is the harder because it cannot be done with the capacitor in the circuit, you would have to undersold one leg of the capacitors to check them in this fashion, most people would just replace them both rather than check them like this.

I honestly do not think you have a voltage problem here, all of these voltages are sourced from the transformer so unless your game came from Japan (105V transformer tap), someone changed the transformers primary tap points to be 105V, or your home AC is pushing 130V you shouldn't have voltage high enough to overdrive the display.

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