DMD Issues With Data East Hook

Hi,

I have just acquired a Data East Hook pinball. It has a Boston Pinball Company replacement DMD. As you can see from the images, there is an issue with this display. There are missing dots, seemingly random dots and dots which are not full brightness. These issues are consistent for each image type, but don't seem to be consistent for each individual dot on the display.

I was wondering if any of you good people out there have any idea as to what might be causing this issue?

Thanks for your help.

display (resized).jpg

#2 6 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Contact Boston Pinball Company to see if they can help.

#3 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

Boston Pinball Company weren't able to offer any suggestions other than checking the leads or shipping the DMD back to the USA for them to test. I was hoping to avoid that if possible as I think the DMD might be OK. It's the fact that the pattern of erroneous dots is absolutely consistent for each individual image each time that image is shown that leads me to think that the DMD itself is fine. I was wondering about the EPROM, would it be worthwhile getting a new one? Has anyone ever seen anything similar with a DMD?

#4 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

OP
Quoted from TinyToo:
Hi,
I have just acquired a Data East Hook pinball. It has a Boston Pinball Company replacement DMD. As you can see from the images, there is an issue with this display. There are missing dots, seemingly random dots and dots which are not full brightness. These issues are consistent for each image type, but don't seem to be consistent for each individual dot on the display.
I was wondering if any of you good people out there have any idea as to what might be causing this issue?
Thanks for your help.

Check resistor R95 on the DMD.

Consider rebuilding the display high voltage power supply board with a kit like this:
http://www.actionpinball.com/parts.php?item=KIT_DE_HV2

#5 6 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

No high voltage used with the LED DMD.

Post last edited 6 years ago.

#6 6 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

Try reseating the ribbon cables. Data East dmds have led me astray many times. Check all the fuse clips, a loose fuse clip on mine drove me bananas till I found it.

#7 6 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from TinyToo:
Boston Pinball Company weren't able to offer any suggestions other than checking the leads or shipping the DMD back to the USA for them to test. I was hoping to avoid that if possible as I think the DMD might be OK. It's the fact that the pattern of erroneous dots is absolutely consistent for each individual image each time that image is shown that leads me to think that the DMD itself is fine. I was wondering about the EPROM, would it be worthwhile getting a new one? Has anyone ever seen anything similar with a DMD?

Start by removing the display ROM and reseating it. Do you have an EPROM burner?

#8 6 years ago

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PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

If this was a WPC game, it appears it would be a RAM issue. Can you let the display test run through the test a couple of times to see if any errors pop up?

Hopefully, the problem is either the display ROM or ribbon cable.

#9 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

I don't have an Eprom burner but can get a new Eprom easily enough from a European pinball supplies company

#10 6 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from TinyToo:
I don't have an Eprom burner but can get a new Eprom easily enough from a European pinball supplies company

Might as well make sure your Game ROM is up to the latest version as well.

#11 6 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

I don't know guys that does not look like a Rom issue. The image is there only with different dot intensity almost like a bad cap/resistor or a power issue.

#12 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from kvan99:
I don't know guys that does not look like a Rom issue. The image is there only with different dot intensity almost like a bad cap/resistor or a power issue.

That's why I recommended a HV rebuild - it should take care of it. $29 kit and a little time.

#13 6 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from PinMonk:
That's why I recommended a HV rebuild - it should take care of it. $29 kit and a little time.

The DMD is a LED from Boston Pinball Company. I had already mentioned no HV is needed.

#14 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
The DMD is a LED from Boston Pinball Company. I had already mentioned no HV is needed.

Ah, didn't realize it wasn't a real DMD, but an LED panel.

#15 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

OP
Quoted from TinyToo:
Boston Pinball Company weren't able to offer any suggestions other than checking the leads or shipping the DMD back to the USA for them to test. I was hoping to avoid that if possible as I think the DMD might be OK. It's the fact that the pattern of erroneous dots is absolutely consistent for each individual image each time that image is shown that leads me to think that the DMD itself is fine. I was wondering about the EPROM, would it be worthwhile getting a new one? Has anyone ever seen anything similar with a DMD?

Can you post a video? Maybe seeing it in action will yield clues...

#16 6 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
The DMD is a LED from Boston Pinball Company. I had already mentioned no HV is needed.

But it still needs a good +5V supply right? OP check Pin 1 on J2 to see if you have a steady 5V

Small 128x16 DMD, connector J2:
J2 pin 1: +5 volts
J2 pin 2: Ground (logic)
J2 pin 3: KEY
J2 pin 4: +12 volts
J2 pin 5: +68 volts
J2 pin 6: -98 volts
J2 pin 7: -110 volts
J2 pin 8: Ground (high voltage)
J2 pin 9: Ground (high voltage)

#17 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

Here is a video of the DMD diagnostics running.

#18 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

It occurs to me, looking at this video, to ask, does the diagnostic routine involve the display EPROM? If not, I guess this is proof that the problem does not involve the EPROM, as the display issues occur in the diagnostic test?

#19 6 years ago

AST

astyy

Pinside member

Basingstoke

9y 52,050 472 4

If you're ever over my way you're welcome to try your display in my Hook.

#20 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

That's a kind offer astyy and as we do come in that direction sometimes, if I don't get it sorted, might well do that as that would definitely tell me if the display is OK or not.

#21 6 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Can reseat the ribbon cable at both connections. If that does not help, try wiggling the ribbon near each connector to see if you can make it better or worse.

#22 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Can reseat the ribbon cable at both connections. If that does not help, try wiggling the ribbon near each connector to see if you can make it better or worse.

Given that the problem areas are more or less consistent and not whole rows or columns, it seems to rule out the ribbon cable and put the problem more towards the display EEPROM or RAM.

#23 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

I get 4.94 volts on TP1 of the power supply and pin 1 J2 of the DMD. Have just ordered new game and display ROMs to eliminate these. Wiggling the cables does not have any effect.

#24 6 years ago

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PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

I was expecting this. Can you post what the current game and display ROM versions are? You will see them when you turn on the game.

#25 6 years ago

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PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from kvan99:
But it still needs a good +5V supply right?

Yes, but without a good 5V, I would not even expect the game to boot up, which he would not have any display at all.

#26 6 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Yes, but without a good 5V, I would not even expect the game to boot up, which he would not have any display at all.

Yes, but I wasn't talking about the +5 for the cpu rather the supply for the dmd. Data East have issues with the connector not making proper contact with the displays blanking out, resetting etc. There is was SB for it.

#27 6 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from kvan99:
Yes, but I wasn't talking about the +5 for the cpu rather the supply for the dmd. Data East have issues with the connector not making proper contact with the displays blanking out, resetting etc. There is was SB for it.

I would agree with that if Hook had a DMD controller.

#28 6 years ago

KAM

kvan99

Pinside member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
I would agree with that if Hook had a DMD controller.

The LED DMD does have a power supply though

From Boston Gaming:
Additional notes, the Data East 128x16 display is different than the 128x32 display that is used in many other machines. It not only includes the driver circuits for the LEDs, but it also contains a power supply, a CPU (Z80A), memory, EPROM chip for display code, and additional circuitry to support all these

#29 6 years ago

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PinballManiac40

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I am very interested in knowing if even 12V is used on this LED DMD. As in, does it take the 12V and regulate it down to 5V? If someone manages to see a schematic, I wonder if they could check to let us post it here too.

#30 6 years ago

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PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

TinyToo can you post a picture of the backside of this LED DMD? I'm curious to see if it has a removable RAM chip.

#31 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

Here is the DMD, ROM's v4.01 game v4.08

DMD (resized).jpg

#32 6 years ago

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PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

I think above the Game ROM is a RAM chip. What is the number on this part? Close up picture would be great. Also, is it in an IC socket?

#33 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
I think above the Game ROM is a RAM chip. What is the number on this part? Close up picture would be great. Also, is it in an IC socket?

It's some kind of chip from Alliance Memory, but all I can make out is the logo.

#34 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

Here's some photos of the full chipset of that board.

P1070065 (resized).JPG

P1070072 (resized).JPG

P1070070 (resized).JPG

#35 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

Well that's eliminated one possibility, display rom turned up today, made absolutely no difference whatsoever!

#36 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

OP
Quoted from TinyToo:
Well that's eliminated one possibility, display rom turned up today, made absolutely no difference whatsoever!

Have you tried re-seating the ram chip above the display rom? (And also checking for bent/corroded pins)

#37 6 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

It’s a 6264. Try swapping it from a display board or CPU board from another game and see if it clears up the issue.

#38 6 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Can you post what the current game and display ROM versions are? You will see them when you turn on the game.

This is important as there are times that there is a conflict between an older game ROM and a newer display ROM.

#39 6 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
This is important as there are times that there is a conflict between an older game ROM and a newer display ROM.

Yes, but from my experience these would cause full scenes not to display and show “display override” errors as the display receives bad commands.

#40 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

Don't have one I can swap in, but I can order one it's pretty inexpensive, are there variants or are all ram chips with a 6264 designation the same?

#41 6 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

There are small variants but I was told all 6264s are cross compatible. If you had other DMD games you could just buy NVRAM for one of your other games and put the old 6264 chip in your display.

#42 6 years ago

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PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Crash:
There are small variants but I was told all 6264s are cross compatible. If you had other DMD games you could just buy NVRAM for one of your other games and put the old 6264 chip in your display.

This is the only DMD game in his list. Though, he can buy a NVRAM (get rid of those batteries) for Hook and use that 6264 RAM on the LED display.

#43 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

I have a Rottendog cpu board in Hook, I will order a new ram chip, worth a go, I would like to sort the display out. I will report back on it's effect on the display. Just sorted out some gi issues, had to repin 2 connectors, 1 on the ppb and 1 inline, reflow a few header solders and repair a broken fuse clip. I see from my research on data east gi issues that gi problems are not uncommon on these pins. I hate repinning it's my least favourite pinball maintenance job!

#44 6 years ago

ZIT

Zitt

Pinball-Mods.com

Austin, TX

11y 112K 7,856 15 10

Ribbon cable?
Cracked solder joints on CPU board (for DMD)?
I was having display issues; and it ended up being the PIA.

#45 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from Zitt:
I was having display issues; and it ended up being the PIA.

You left out the "T".

#46 6 years ago

ZIT

Zitt

Pinball-Mods.com

Austin, TX

11y 112K 7,856 15 10

Quoted from PinMonk:
You left out the "T".

LOL. I was actually referring to Peripheral Interface Adapter (PIA / 6821)

#47 6 years ago

VIC

PinMonk

Quoted from Zitt:
LOL. I was actually referring to Peripheral Interface Adapter (PIA / 6821)

Of course, but the opportunity to make a joke was too good to pass up.

#48 6 years ago

TT2

TinyToo

Inactive member

I will keep trying different options if each fails to resolve problem, already ordered ram chip so will try that first, then cable..... etc

#49 6 years ago

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PinballManiac40

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