(Topic ID: 157283)

DMD cloudy


By Invader

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 32 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by PinballManiac40
  • Topic is favorited by 5 Pinsiders

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240Volt_setting.jpg
240Vac-z.jpg
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DMM_80-100_Vac.gif
cftbl_(resized).jpg
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#1 3 years ago

My DMD was suddenly cloudy today:

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/T5etONp.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/fUR7edo.jpg[/IMG]

I reseated all cables, got the DMD controller board out and put new thermal paste on the resistors and heatsinks, reflowed solder joints and still no luck

What can be the cause and how to fix it?

Thanks

#2 3 years ago

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#3 3 years ago

Measure your HV power...
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Testing_DMD_Controller_Power

You're going to find them out of spec. The Dot Controller HV sections probably needs rehab.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#4 3 years ago

Thanks for the suggestion, I followed the pinwiki and measured the voltages.

DMD:
http://i.imgur.com/31vL4jr.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/f2p5qxJ.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/acIBBvI.jpg?1

DMD controller:
http://i.imgur.com/8eGTPkb.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/EANgl5F.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/MEH23EI.jpg?1

If I'm correct, the first pin should show 124, while it is currently +/-150.
And the second 112, currently +/-125.
So the difference between the two is +/-25.
Also the 62V is a bit high.

I'll order a revision kit and hopefully can fix it.
Meanwhile I'll take another board from a difference pin.

Does these boards always go bad after time?
Or is there a cause/source that these boards go bad, like a bad voltage from the PDB board or something?

Thanks!

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from Invader:

Does these boards always go bad after time?
Or is there a cause/source that these boards go bad, like a bad voltage from the PDB board or something?

I see the issue a lot, and repair a lot of Dot Controller HV sections that have failed.
I've seen the condition in your game before and suspected that the HV was way to high, which it is.
Is this a design flaw? Not really. The components are subject to a lot of heat. Heat is the enemy of reliability. It's just a fact of life/physics.

Take your time with the rehab. It'll go fine. The boards are usually toasty. You may have to jumper traces like the one between the two zeners on the right. Those through holes and traces seem to burn the most. Don't forget the 47K resistors by the two caps. They are almost always toast. There are some pics of the traces to help you at this link: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Testing_DMD_Controller_Power

In fact, I have a pic of a display being overdriven, like yours.

Good Luck. Let us know how it turns out.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#6 3 years ago

Thanks for the explanation.
Looking forward to get it fixed

What do you mean with "the two zeners" by the way?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Invader:

What do you mean with "the two zeners" by the way?

See this image: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:WPC-089-HV-CheatSheet.jpg
D4 and D5 are the two zeners that I meant.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#8 3 years ago

Thanks again!

#9 3 years ago

Make sure the power setting jumpers on the cabinet transformer cable are correct for the voltage in your country just to be sure.

#10 3 years ago

I installed a DMD controller board from a different machine, DMD works again
To be sure, I measured it voltages.
The first pin had around 114v which should be OK right?
But the second had about 88-89v, which is more than 12v difference.
Do you think this board has a problem too?
And would it be causing damage to the DMD display?

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Invader:

The first pin had around 114v which should be OK right?
But the second had about 88-89v, which is more than 12v difference.

Was that measurement made with the DMD attached (loaded)?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#12 3 years ago

Yes!
(I measured it at the pins behind the DMD and the machine was turned on)

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Invader:

I installed a DMD controller board from a different machine, DMD works again
To be sure, I measured it voltages.
The first pin had around 114v which should be OK right?
But the second had about 88-89v, which is more than 12v difference.
Do you think this board has a problem too?
And would it be causing damage to the DMD display?

I would check the input a/c voltage at J605. Something doesn't seem right and this is a good place to verify the basics.

cftbl_(resized).jpg

#14 3 years ago

That's odd. It would be interesting to measure the power unloaded (disconnected).
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#15 3 years ago

I measured it with the machine on, but with J604 disconnected.
I measured it at the pins of J604 and got the following:
113v
87,4v (so difference about 25,6)
68v

Also measured J605:
64,5v
Key
64,5v
54,5v
54v

Is there something wrong here?
If yes, where to look at?

Thanks

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Invader:

Also measured J605:
64,5v
Key
64,5v
54,5v
54v

Measure again with multimeter set on Vac as in picture:
DMM_80-100_Vac.gif

#17 3 years ago

Thanks for the clear picture again

I'm getting 93v and 118v.
I'm not sure if I have set my multimeter correctly, see attached pictures:

image_(resized).jpg

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#18 3 years ago

Yes, that setting is ok. These voltages are higher than expected.

Can you make a picture of the plug for primary settings of the transformer. looks like this: (europe 230V setting)
240Vac-z.jpg

#19 3 years ago

Thanks, I'll check it tonight when I'm home again.

At my work I have other pin machines with 12-pins plugs on a metal casing.
Do you have a picture of the EU 230v setting for these 12-pins plug as well?
So I can check if these are OK, because one machine also has the same problem as my CFTBL with the voltages being to high at J605.

I took the DMD controller board with me to my work by the way, and measured it in one of the other machines.
Here the voltages are OK (12v difference between pin 1 and 2, only the 62v is still high with about 68v).
So it must be something with my CFTBL for the 20v+ difference.
Hopefully it's just the country voltage setting being wrong.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Invader:

Do you have a picture of the EU 230v setting for these 12-pins plug as well?

here you go,
240Volt_setting.jpg

#21 3 years ago

I knew this was the problem, because I had the same thing last week on a BSD. The high voltage board can stand up to the increased voltages for only so long and then they blow out and the display goes cloudy like that. Once you fix the jumpers, you should be able to rebuild the high voltage board or buy a piggyback board and everything will be fine.

Go here to see how to set up the jumpers for all WPC games including the 12-pin games:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Primary_Voltage_Selection_Jumpers_at_the_Transformer

EVERYONE who has a machine that has ever crossed an international boarder or even suspect it may have been re-imported needs to check these jumpers per the instructions on the website above!! It only takes a few seconds and could save a lot of aggravation.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

here you go,
240Volt_setting.jpg

That picture needs to go on pinwiki!

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

That picture needs to go on pinwiki!

I do agree

btw. I stole the first picture (post #18) from pinside or pinwiki a while ago and removed the background and used rotate,smear.

#24 3 years ago

The plug was indeed wrong, I changed the cables like in your picture (see picture).
Now J605 has the correct voltages, 100v and 80v

But this didn't solve the difference between pin 1 and 2 on J604.
With the connector on (DMD on), measured at DMD:
120,2
99,5 (20,7 difference)
65,1

Without the connector plugged in, measured at pins on board:
120
99,4 (20,6 difference)
65,4

So I keep having around 20v difference.
And pin 1 is now higher with 120 against 113v yesterday.
Strange thing is that it measured fine in my other pin machines.
Did this board got bad in the meantime maybe or is there something I can check in my CFTBL?

image_(resized).jpg

image_(resized).jpg

#25 3 years ago

I guess it's possible that the higher voltages toasted something, like the 12V zener.
You could replace that zener, but if the display is working, I see no reason to worry about it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#26 3 years ago

Ok thanks, but will it not cause damage to the DMD with this voltage?

Meanwhile I'm starting to repair the old board, got a revision kit today in my mailbox

#28 3 years ago

I finished revising the old board
Only two traces were bad and fixed them with a wire.
Installed it and all voltages are correct now woohoooo!
Thanks for all the help guys!

image_(resized).jpg

image_(resized).jpg

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from Invader:

Thanks for all the help guys!

That board was toasty! Nice job!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

2 years later
#31 1 year ago

I spoke via text with ChrisHilber today. He was very helpful. I showed him a photo of how my orange DMD would randomly get cloudiness. He said more than likely it was the High volt if not the display and to check it. I mentioned that I was going to purchase a color DMD. He then clarified that the color DMD utilize 5 and 12 volt not HV so it wasn't necessary to fix the high volt if going with color DMD. Thank you!!!

#32 1 year ago

ColorDMD for CFTBL is so worth it to have a color display in the game.

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