(Topic ID: 33697)
Linked Games
Demolition Man
Williams, 1994
Topic Gallery
Maple Shade, NJ
Rules question for all of you players out there,
I did something a little different with the DM rules in that there are timed modes, multiball modes and also something new, hybrid timed-multiball modes (explode, car chase, superjets).
In these hybrid timed-multiball modes, the game gives you an additional ball but the mode still ends after a time (or completing the mode in the case of superjets) but the player may or may not have drained the additional ball before the timer ends. So here is the question.
While the mode is playing things like video mode and the claw diverter are disabled since there are 2 balls on the playfield and hitting either of those disables the flippers which would cause the player to lose their 2nd ball. But if a player holds onto the 2nd ball and the mode ends due to timing out, then the player hits either VM or the claw then they will lose the one ball as the flippers will be dead. I have gotten a few questions about this and whether or not that is the way the game is supposed to play.
What do you think? Is the hybrid mode too confusing?
I could simply eliminate the 2nd ball and make it a standard timed mode. Alternately I could make it a MB and when the 2nd ball drains the mode ends. My thoughts were to hybrid that and give the 2nd ball as sort of a bonus to the player but still keep it a timed mode. but again, if the 2 balls are still in play when the timer ends then the game will steal that 2nd ball if the player inadvertently starts the claw or VM which tends to piss people off.
Opinions would be appreciated.
Quoted from Nemesis:this is amazing... such a c*ck-tease though... anyone wanna trade me their DM for a super slick T2?
you might want to hold onto that one. We will probably redo the rules for it eventually too.
Quoted from jamescardona:Alternately I could make it a MB and when the 2nd ball drains the mode ends.
This is my preference.
The hybrid thing is cool because it's innovative; I don't think I've seen it done in any other game. But, my experience is that every guest player gets confused when the mode ends and the multiball continues -- and of course everyone has the reaction you describe when the claw or a VM takes a ball.
I was super confused the first time video mode started for me while in 2 ball multi ball and the flipper went dead and dropped by caught ball. I actually like the concept once I realized it was intentional. It's pretty innovative. Maybe rewrite the multiball rules so you can restart it after it times out hitting some combination of shots (car crash 3 times? or computer hole?) with an additional larger super jackpot that would reward a player for not starting video mode or the claw. Upon scoring the jackpot, the flippers would die and drain the second ball and would also unlight the video mode and claw mode or something like that. It would definitely add for a more complicated strategy.
Quoted from Aurich:It's held up a lot better than DM.
Yeah James Cameron's direction tends to hold up well. I watch Terminator and Aliens all the time.
Quoted from stevevt:This is my preference.
The hybrid thing is cool because it's innovative; I don't think I've seen it done in any other game. But, my experience is that every guest player gets confused when the mode ends and the multiball continues -- and of course everyone has the reaction you describe when the claw or a VM takes a ball.
The more I think about it the more I think I need to eliminate the hybrid mode. I don't want people confused by the rules of the game. Eliminating the 2nd ball would be the easiest fix as the mode is already written as a timed mode and would only require changing one line of code.
But since explode and car chase are such dangerous shots and there is currently no ball save for them I am going to have to fix that if I make it a single ball timed mode.
I agree James that you should eliminate the Hybrid Mode - it is confusing.
Thanks again for all your work on this.
Cheers.
Just bought a Demo Man and this new code was part of the reason I wanted it. That being said, I prefer simple over confusing as well......Thanks for your efforts!
Mario just sent me a bunch more animations and I can't help but tease. They will blow your mind.
So then I am thinking once we get all his animations in we will be putting out a final 1.0 release. That being said I have a hand full of tweaks to do to the code such as the above discussed elimination of the hybrid modes. If you have other things on your mind then now is absolutely the time to send them to me.
Quoted from jamescardona:Mario just sent me a bunch more animations and I can't help but tease. They will blow your mind.
So then I am thinking once we get all his animations in we will be putting out a final 1.0 release. That being said I have a hand full of tweaks to do to the code such as the above discussed elimination of the hybrid modes. If you have other things on your mind then now is absolutely the time to send them to me.
Disclaimer: All of these are somewhat minor.
I've noticed that Light Quick Freeze can be lit during a multiball. It doesn't seem to do anything (e.g., add a ball), so it probably shouldn't be on.
Similarly, I'm pretty sure I've seen the Computer light come on during multiball. The shot doesn't award the Computer award, so it probably shouldn't be on.
Some of the computer awards don't include a display that tells you how many points you were awarded. Car crash maybe? If not that one, at least one or two.
(Super minor) When you get the Award Bonus award, you can't use double-flips to scroll through the award quickly like you can with the regular end of ball bonus.
Graz
Quoted from stevevt:Disclaimer: All of these are somewhat minor.
I've noticed that Light Quick Freeze can be lit during a multiball. It doesn't seem to do anything (e.g., add a ball), so it probably shouldn't be on.
I agree with the others but maybe not this one. The reason it comes on is that you can stack MBs. If fortress is running and you light enough freezes you can start museum while fortress is still running, for example.
Quoted from jamescardona:I agree with the others but maybe not this one. The reason it comes on is that you can stack MBs. If fortress is running and you light enough freezes you can start museum while fortress is still running, for example.
Nice! Totally in favor of this stacking. I don't think I've noticed the Quick Freeze animation during multiball, but maybe it happens when I'm busy flailing for my life. I also based what I wrote on my recollection that the Light Quick Freeze light doesn't appear to go out after I hit the left ramp during multiball, but maybe I'm only paying attention when I have multiple LQF's stacked or something.
Quoted from jamescardona:I agree with the others but maybe not this one. The reason it comes on is that you can stack MBs. If fortress is running and you light enough freezes you can start museum while fortress is still running, for example.
James can u pm me your address.
Thanks so much for your work Mr. Cardona! I haven't had much time to really play the new code, but I did notice some things that I think would improve it.
When entering a high score how about making it so you can hold down the triggers and the letters advance instead of having to hit the triggers like 50 times.
Also I was having that same problem with the ball popping out of the lower left scoop too hard and going in the outlane quite often.
Also the Cryo -claw seems to be a little "gritty" feeling when I am controlling it. Seems OK when automatically moving around.
I have R 0.95
Thanks Again. I think that us Pinheads appreciate your work greatly.
Quoted from QuietEarp:When entering a high score how about making it so you can hold down the triggers and the letters advance instead of having to hit the triggers like 50 times.
Also the Cryo -claw seems to be a little "gritty" feeling when I am controlling it. Seems OK when automatically moving around.
I hadn't thought of mentioning these things, but I noticed the same things. The claw seemed to move much more smoothly on Williams code.
Quoted from annointed:I hadn't thought of mentioning these things, but I noticed the same things. The claw seemed to move much more smoothly on Williams code.
I noticed this too
2 weeks later
Quoted from SteveMichaels:James can you PM me your email so I can get version 1 when it's ready!!
Sounds awesome!!!
Add me to that list as well! Thanks !
Quoted from annointed:I hadn't thought of mentioning these things, but I noticed the same things. The claw seemed to move much more smoothly on Williams code.
I just got this fixed. Will be smooth on the next release
Quoted from Jwjsr:do the profanity roms work with Lx-4 game rom? I have A-sound =yes and FREEPLAY= Yes. He does not say f-you when i tilt.
You have to turn on profanity in the menu.
Quoted from Deez:You have to turn on profanity in the menu.
john wartjr emailed me that lx-4 version is coin operated version and profanity will only work with the Home cpu rom, he is going to send me one. and of course profanity sound roms work with james new code new rules but i wanted both.
Quoted from Jwjsr:profanity sound roms work with james new code new rules but i wanted both
They actually work 'better' with the new code as you can turn off the really nasty parts but it leaves the other nicer/innuendo (Let's blow this guy!) calls in the profanity roms in place.
1 week later
Due to the many projects in my job it was a little quiet here from my side.
I want to update you a little on the DMD animations I'm doing. I finished all the pre-production: Storyboards, designing the objects, modeling them in 3D, assets like explosions etc...
Now I will animate them, comp them together and finalize them for DMD.
Though it already takes a month longer than I thought initially - I had a internal deadline of January for myself, I think it will be worth the wait 
Cheers,
Mario.
Thanks for the update Mario!
Now for James or anyone else who knows, I have a question about the "tournament" setting. Last night I dropped my DM off at a location where it will be used in spring league play and possibly a May tournament (and will also be blinged out with full LEDs, nvram, and some tasteful mods as well as a thorough shop job).
Even in tournament mode, we found that the "computer awards" still seemed to be random for each player (not really what you want for tournament play), which got us wondering: what exactly is changed about the gameplay when the "tournament" setting is enabled? We at least expected the computer awards to become standardized for all players.
Quoted from annointed:Thanks for the update Mario!
Now for James or anyone else who knows, I have a question about the "tournament" setting. Last night I dropped my DM off at a location where it will be used in spring league play and possibly a May tournament (and will also be blinged out with full LEDs, nvram, and some tasteful mods as well as a thorough shop job).
Even in tournament mode, we found that the "computer awards" still seemed to be random for each player (not really what you want for tournament play), which got us wondering: what exactly is changed about the gameplay when the "tournament" setting is enabled? We at least expected the computer awards to become standardized for all players.
yes, should have been same. I will verify.
Quoted from annointed:Thanks for the update Mario!
Now for James or anyone else who knows, I have a question about the "tournament" setting. Last night I dropped my DM off at a location where it will be used in spring league play and possibly a May tournament (and will also be blinged out with full LEDs, nvram, and some tasteful mods as well as a thorough shop job).
Even in tournament mode, we found that the "computer awards" still seemed to be random for each player (not really what you want for tournament play), which got us wondering: what exactly is changed about the gameplay when the "tournament" setting is enabled? We at least expected the computer awards to become standardized for all players.
I just read through the code and the only place that tournament mode sets is computer award. That is the only random variable in the game. The other thing people typical do is disable the claw. This does not happen automatically, you would have to select to disable the claw separately. Does that sound right? Do you think that the claw should be automatically disabled if put into tournament mode?
I will test tournament mode tonight to figure out why comp award is not working.
Quoted from jamescardona:I just read through the code and the only place that tournament mode sets is computer award. That is the only random variable in the game. The other thing people typical do is disable the claw. This does not happen automatically, you would have to select to disable the claw separately. Does that sound right? Do you think that the claw should be automatically disabled if put into tournament mode?
I will test tournament mode tonight to figure out why comp award is not working.
The claw is disabled in serious tournaments using the original code because the claw awards are highly imbalanced, such that not disabling it leads to a multiball-all-day snoozefest. I don't think you need to disable it by default in your code, because the claw awards are much more balanced.
Izegem
Quoted from jamescardona:I just read through the code and the only place that tournament mode sets is computer award. That is the only random variable in the game. The other thing people typical do is disable the claw. This does not happen automatically, you would have to select to disable the claw separately. Does that sound right? Do you think that the claw should be automatically disabled if put into tournament mode?
I will test tournament mode tonight to figure out why comp award is not working.
I agree that the claw integration seems nicely balanced with the new code, so I don't think there is any need to disable the claw for tournaments. But standardizing computer award progression for tournaments would definitely be needed for serious competitions. Thanks for looking into it!
Quoted from Mentara:Is there anyone who can tell me if the code can be succefully used on an 27c801 eprom, the 8mb version, instead of the 1mb?
27c801
I know I had to use a 27C010 (1MB). Don't know if the boards will support up to 8MB.
Quoted from annointed:I agree that the claw integration seems nicely balanced with the new code, so I don't think there is any need to disable the claw for tournaments. But standardizing computer award progression for tournaments would definitely be needed for serious competitions. Thanks for looking into it!
alright so I went through a bunch of computer awards last night with a 3 player games on tournament mode and they were all the same for all 3 players. I went to 6 computer awards each and they were identical.
There was a bug though, so that was a good find. when in tournament mode, after displaying the computer award it will show what the next award is and that was wrong. It showed the next award as bonus every time. This only happens in tournament mode. I will fix it.
the code should be fair and balanced for your tournament as is though.
Quoted from Patofnaud:I know I had to use a 27C010 (1MB). Don't know if the boards will support up to 8MB.
8mb chip has more pins and will not fit into the socket
Quoted from jamescardona:8mb chip has more pins and will not fit into the socket
I think there is some confusion here though, between bits and bytes, as 8 mega bits = 1 mega byte. the chip you want is 8megabit or 1 megabyte which is a 27c801
1 week later
Quoted from mayuh:I thought you'd like to see some work in progress...?
I fitted mine with these target decals: http://www.pinballdecals.com/DMTargetDecalsPage.html
I ordered these:
http://www.pinballcenter.eu/catalog/demolition-man-target-decals-p-2861.html?language=english
Look cool too and I like the red 'blood' on it '-)
I installed the 0.95 version of Demolition Time, and wow do i love it! I like the way it makes my DM feel like a new machine, there's so much new stuff to explore. I like the stackable multiballs and modes a lot. And personally I don't mind the fact the that when you start a video mode, after Super Jets for instance, you lose the other ball if its still in play. Because i read some people don't really like it. I consider it more of calculated risk.
Also, i really dig the blackout during the video modes. Could it be possible to do this during the intro of some other wizard modes like Demo Time too? I really like the light and soundshow on the original rom when you start Demo Time. It doesn't look so spectacular anymore on the 0.95 Demolition Time rom, i kinda miss that.
Further I like the adjustment of the letters that indicate what mode is ready to go.
And the smoothness of the crane is something that is indeed noticable, doesn't really hurts the gameplay. But I still wonder how the Williams code made the crane smoother.
Ow one more thing. Are there hidden jackpots or other hidden stuff when you press the thumb buttons on the grip for example. The original game had them, and I miss those too. If there are any, I haven't found them yet.
I got version but I have not installed it yet, I am going to wait for the final version with the new animations. I had read my version had a few issues that needed to be corrected, so figured might as well send it back in when the new one is complete. Very much looking forward to it... wonder how long it will be?
Quoted from Mentara:Also, i really dig the blackout during the video modes. Could it be possible to do this during the intro of some other wizard modes like Demo Time too? I really like the light and soundshow on the original rom when you start Demo Time. It doesn't look so spectacular anymore on the 0.95 Demolition Time rom, i kinda miss that.
FreeWPC code does not use/support GI Dimming.. That blackout is accomplished by doing GI Dimming to 0 and not by some relay. So my understanding is we lost the ability to have that light show. I'm hoping John someday figures a way around it because yes it was awesomeness.
Quoted from Patofnaud:FreeWPC code does not use/support GI Dimming.. That blackout is accomplished by doing GI Dimming to 0 and not by some relay. So my understanding is we lost the ability to have that light show. I'm hoping John someday figures a way around it because yes it was awesomeness.
a few things still need to be written in the code. For now support is there to turn lights on or off or flash at a preset rate. I would love to pulse the lights at a variety of different rates and dim the bulbs. Look at what williams did with the flashers on NGG or MB. also stern on IM and SM is very good. We don't have that written yet in the code.
By the way, I fixed the claw movement already for the next rev and a lot of other little tweaks. I have been playing the new code in my machine for about a week and it is much better. Also roughly half the new animations are done and I quite like them. In the end we will probably still keep some of the old animations for some very specific modes. Mario is really helping take this to the next level.
I would expect it to be done within weeks.
Quoted from jamescardona:By the way, I fixed the claw movement already for the next rev and a lot of other little tweaks. I have been playing the new code in my machine for about a week and it is much better. Also roughly half the new animations are done and I quite like them. In the end we will probably still keep some of the old animations for some very specific modes. Mario is really helping take this to the next level.
I would expect it to be done within weeks.
Thanks for the update, sounds great. Cannot wait for the 'final' code
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