(Topic ID: 127701)

DIY: Repair 20-10293 Reed Switch


By lyonsden

4 years ago



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  • 59 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by lyonsden
  • Topic is favorited by 39 Pinsiders

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tn_IMG_20160619_132648_(resized).jpg
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Reed_switch_housing_(resized).jpg
REED SWITCH new.GIF
REED SWITCH 1a.GIF
REED SWITCH2.GIF
REED SWITCH3.GIF
REED SWITCH 1.GIF
REED SWITCH.GIF
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There are 59 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 4 years ago

The Williams 20-10293 Reed Switch is nearly unobtainium and used in several Williams/Bally pins:

Cirqus Voltaire
Cactus Canyon
NBA Fastbreak
No Good Gofers
Revenge From Mars
Safe Cracker
Star Wars Episode 1

And if you can find them, they cost $20 -- pretty expensive for a switch. I had a dead one in my NGG, and pretty much gave up replacing it as it wasn't essential for game play (one in a set of two in front of Buzz for detecting hits). However, after reading this post by german-pinball:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/has-anyone-found-a-replacement-for-the-20-10293-reed-switch#post-2441237

I thought I'd give it a try. And it worked. And it was pretty easy. And it was cheap ($1.50 for the actual reed switch). So to expand on german-pinball's short instructions, here are step-by-step instructions with pictures.

#2 4 years ago

Parts:
Magnetic / Reed Switches 1 Form A 7mm AT 1015: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEDER-electronic-Standex/KSK-1A80-1015/?qs=KFo7JewZbUFX%252bU5EsD5Ziw%3D%3D
Diode: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=173
Silicone or caulk

Tools:
Soldering gun and solder
Helping hands (they really help)
Small flathead screwdrivers to pick and pry
Wire snippers

#3 4 years ago

Step 1: Take out reed switch
Step 2: Pick out silicone (whatever it is). I used a small flathead screwdriver.
Step 3: Expose diode and reed switch

IMG_4468.JPG
IMG_4469.JPG

#4 4 years ago

Step 4: Pry out magnet
Note: Don't pry out magnet on the other side of the reed switch.

IMG_4474.JPG IMG_4475.JPG
#5 4 years ago

Step 5: push out reed switch and diode with switch wires.
Note that there are small channels the wires run through in an internal bracket and then between the magnets

IMG_4477.JPG
#6 4 years ago

Step 6: Remove old reed switch and diode (might as well replace everything)
Step 7: Tin new reed switch and place in channel
Note: orientation of reed switch *may* be important (need to test). In this example, both the original and the replacement were oriented with the flat sides of the switch facing up/down (not looking at the edge from above).

IMG_4478.JPG

#7 4 years ago

Step 8: Tin new diode and place in channel. Note the direction of the diode!
Note: You'll have to cut the lead to fit

IMG_4480.JPG

#8 4 years ago

Step 9: Solder leads of diode and reed switch together
Note: just a quick tap with a soldering iron should do it

IMG_4481.JPG
#9 4 years ago

Step 10: Solder plug wire to reed lead. Clip excess lead
Step 11: Solder plug wire to diode lead. Clip excess lead

IMG_4482.JPG IMG_4483.JPG
#10 4 years ago

Step 12: replace magnet

IMG_4485.JPG
#11 4 years ago

Step 13: Fill with silicone or caulk. I had a tube of 100% silicone for aquariums on hand. Let cure till surface is solid.

IMG_4486.JPG
#12 4 years ago

Step 14: Put back in game and test with switch test.
Step 15: Play some pinball!

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Excellent post!

Thanks GPE! Do you sell the reed switch? I'd like add a link to it, if you do.

#15 4 years ago

@lyonsden:

Really absolute excellent post and write up.

Very helpful foto documentation - will help the whole pinball community for the eternity.

I think, you will be "pinwikified", if you write to Chris Hibler - this should be stored in pinwiki.

Another reed sensor as I suggested would also work, important is the length of the glas-tube, 7mm.

- MEDER, part-number: KSK-1A80-1015 = mouser.com part-number: 876-KSK-1A80-1015)
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEDER-electronic-Standex/KSK-1A80-1015/?qs=KFo7JewZbUFX%252bU5EsD5Ziw%3D%3D

- PIC, part-number: PMC-0701 = conrad.de part-number: 503800-62
http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/503800/Mikro-Reedschalter-PIC-PMC-0701-1-Schliesser-05-A-150-VDC-120-VAC-10-W

Good idea, to also replace the diode, when you just have it open.

GPE should put it in his shop as a "repair kit for WMS 20-10293 reed sensor".

CONGATS and THANKS for your great documentation.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

@lyonsden:
Really absolute excellent post and write up.
Very helpful foto documentation - will help the whole pinball community for the eternity.
I think, you will be "pinwikified", if you write to Chris Hibler - this should be stored in pinwiki.

GPE should put it in his shop as a "repair kit for WMS 20-10293 reed sensor".
CONGATS and THANKS for your great documentation.

Thanks GP! Wouldn't have been able to do this without your work. I'll send the link to Chris to see if he'd be interested in it for his wiki and I agree that it would be great if a small kit was available through GPE.

#17 4 years ago

Negative on Meder, got to go to Mouser for them. But there are many mfrs of reed switches out there, will look further.

Often orientation of reed switch is important. Can get these mounted 90degrees and they may or may not work depending on how operating magnet is situated. Post #4 above shows flat side of switch when you look into switch (and not edges of switch) -- is that correct?

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Negative on Meder, got to go to Mouser for them. But there are many mfrs of reed switches out there, will look further.
Often orientation of reed switch is important. Can get these mounted 90degrees and they may or may not work depending on how operating magnet is situated. Post #4 above shows flat side of switch when you look into switch (and not edges of switch) -- is that correct?

It is correct. We use here a normally open (make contact) reed switch. We do not have to abserve polarity. Both, north and south pole, switch equally.

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

It is correct. We use here a normally open (make contact) reed switch. We do not have to abserve polarity. Both, north and south pole, switch equally.

I may have had some dumb luck, but does it matter if the switch is rotated 90 degrees so that, from above, you are looking at the sides of the leaves in the switch (as asked by GPE)?

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

I may have had some dumb luck, but does it matter if the switch is rotated 90 degrees so that, from above, you are looking at the sides of the leaves in the switch (as asked by GPE)?

I do not think, it does matter here in this application, BUT mightbe, I had the same luck at that time as you now had.

Look here
http://www.pic-gmbh.com/en/interactive/
there you can play a bit interactive - choose one pole and manual modus.

By the way- the disgusting old silicon or whatever it was, could be something like this:
http://www.acc-silicones.com/products/encapsulants.ashx

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

I do not think, it does matter here in this application, BUT mightbe, I had the same luck at that time as you now had.
Look here
http://www.pic-gmbh.com/en/interactive/
there you can play a bit interactive - choose one pole and manual modus.
By the way- the disgusting old silicon or whatever it was, could be something like this:
http://www.acc-silicones.com/products/encapsulants.ashx

Neat tool! I have a couple of extra reed switches from Mouser. If anyone wants to send me a broken switch that I can test, I'll do my best to fix it and send it back to you. Just PM me.

#22 4 years ago

I updated Step 7 to address the orientation of the switch (just in case).

#23 4 years ago

Great post! Thanks for sharing this information.

Does anybody know if the same part could be used to repair Sega reed switches 180-5145-XX ?

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinmot:

Great post! Thanks for sharing this information.
Does anybody know if the same part could be used to repair Sega reed switches 180-5145-XX ?

Based on what German-Pinball has said, I think length is the big factor in these switches. Can you open it up and measure? If you want to send it to me, I'm happy to try one of the Mouser switches and test it out. I'll send it back to you regardless.

#25 4 years ago

I think, the reed switch has to be mounted, as in the attached grafic.

REED SWITCH.GIF

#26 4 years ago

I like, to draw grafics

REED SWITCH 1.GIF

REED SWITCH 1a.GIF

#27 4 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

I like, to draw grafics
REED SWITCH 1.GIF (Click image to enlarge)

Nice. This should help people understand the orientation.

#28 4 years ago

What I was always asking me, is, how the 2 little magnets must be arrranged. I have no idea of magnetic fields, but googled a bit and I could imagine, that they are arranged as shown in pic1 and function as shown in pic2.

Maybe someone, who has - others than me - properly taken care of in physics at school previously, can shed some light into the darkness.

REED SWITCH2.GIF

REED SWITCH3.GIF

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

I like to draw grafics

And very good graphics they are!
This pretty much answers the question I previously asked about switch orientation.

Ed

#30 4 years ago

Great job with this, a big help to us looking for solutions!

1 week later
#31 4 years ago

Grafics-Update Have fun ...

REED SWITCH new.GIF

1 week later
#32 4 years ago

Anybody have time to add this to pinwiki?
Also, a Hamlin reed relay is sometimes easier to find -- MITI-3V1-8-12.5

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Anybody have time to add this to pinwiki?
Also, a Hamlin reed relay is sometimes easier to find -- MITI-3V1-8-12.5

I requested a new account to do this, but never was authorized. Anyone else have one that can do this?

2 weeks later
#34 4 years ago

I'm not real good at laying out web pages but did get this stuff added to Pinwiki:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Pinball_2000_Repair#Reed_Switches

#35 4 years ago

Very nice! Thank you GPE. Are you carrying The reed switch?

#36 4 years ago

Yep -- I have the Hamlin (now Littelfuse) version of these reed switches:
www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MITI-3V1-8-12.5

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Yep -- I have the Hamlin (now Littelfuse) version of these reed switches:
http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=MITI-3V1-8-12.5

Fantastic!

1 month later
#38 4 years ago

I now understood the operating principle of the 2 magnets. It is as follows:

As shown in the pictures, 2 magnetic plates , whose magnetic fields cancel each other, are mounted above each other. Between these 2 magnetic plates sits a "normal" reed switch.
If then a metal ball rolls above the unit, i.e. above the upper magnetic plate, the magnetic field of the upper magnetic plate is weakened . The magnetic field of the lower plate then dominates and can close the reed switch.

Pretty simple, isn´t it?

#39 4 years ago

Yes -- and that also explains way the orientation of the reed switch is important. If put in 90 degrees offset from how it is supposed, the lower field won't push it closed.

4 months later
#40 3 years ago

I would love for someone to be rebuilding these and selling them.

#41 3 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

As shown in the pictures, 2 magnetic plates , whose magnetic fields cancel each other, are mounted above each other. Between these 2 magnetic plates sits a "normal" reed switch.

So that's how they work. Thanks for the explanation.

Quoted from mainelycoasters:

I would love for someone to be rebuilding these and selling them

You could make a 3d model of it and print it. Maybe I will have a play with it later this year.
I will need some dimensions of the sensor for that: housing and magnet sizes. Are the magnets very strong?

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from DDDwingmaster:

So that's how they work. Thanks for the explanation.

You could make a 3d model of it and print it. Maybe I will have a play with it later this year.
I will need some dimensions of the sensor for that: housing and magnet sizes. Are the magnets very strong?

I am working on that too, but unfortunately, I have no 3d-printer. First problem is the housing, I am searching for that since years. Second problem are the magnets. I do not know, how strong they are and what are the exact dimensions. Next week I will order different magnets and will begin to test. I think, the strongness is not the problem in our application, as the 2 different magnetic fields cancel each other at first, until the balls rolls and the upper magnet field is weakend.
Interesting:
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=reed-switches-and-hall-effect-sensors
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/products.asp?cat=1

I do not know, how to measure the gauß of the magnets. Should look for I thing like this:

I am thinking about a very little pcb, lower magnet glued on the PCB, solder in the 2 parts, glue the second magnet on top and put all in a nice housing. E.G. see here: http://forum.mysensors.org/topic/909/reed-switch-normally-open-or-normally-closed

Easiest way would be to use a piece of wood, dremel it out and put in the magnets and the parts

#43 3 years ago

Awesome work, German-Pinball. Most places seem to be out of stock, but here is one for $20: http://www.flippers.com/catalog/product_info.php/reed-switch-p-4953

It would be great if they can be remade.

#44 3 years ago

Guess there are a lot of people working on a solution to this thing.

The power of the magnet has to be coupled with a reed switch of the appropriate sensitivity. Not that difficult, really. Placement is more of the key than anything else. So packaging is where it will be crucial to get everything right in order to make something simple (and cheap) to manufacture, and that's not going to be easy!

#45 3 years ago

What about 3D printing the case, doing two fills of silicone, one for the first magnet and let it set, then the switch, diode, fill, let cure, then sit the next magnet on top? Sounds like if you did it in those steps, you could have some relative accuracy in the separation of the magnets and materials.

Just spitballing.

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from Compy:

What about 3D printing the case, doing two fills of silicone, one for the first magnet and let it set, then the switch, diode, fill, let cure, then sit the next magnet on top? Sounds like if you did it in those steps, you could have some relative accuracy in the separation of the magnets and materials.
Just spitballing.

Thats exact, what I am thinking of, but I do not have a 3D-printer ...

1 week later
#47 3 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

Thats exact, what I am thinking of, but I do not have a 3D-printer

You can try to use https://www.3dhubs.com if you have a design.

Alternative to silicone fill a shell, is to use hot melt glue to fix the magnets. Just be carefull not to overheat the magnets.

In 3d printing complexity is free. You can think of complex shapes and not a simple shell. I would make a housing where the reed contact and the magnets would slot in. A small drop of super glue to fix it all.

What distance can these sensors still detect a ball?

#48 3 years ago

I did some experimenting with parts laying around. Using two 10x2mm round magnets and a 15mm reed contact, a ball could be detected 9mm away. Impressive. With two 3x2mm round magnets the sensing distance was about 3mm. Need to order some more more size magnets like 5mm and 8mm magnets to test.
Drawback of these sensors is that the ball is attracted by a magnet. Not much, but still noticeable. DO the original sensors also do this?

#49 3 years ago
Quoted from DDDwingmaster:

I did some experimenting with parts laying around. Using two 10x2mm round magnets and a 15mm reed contact, a ball could be detected 9mm away. Impressive. With two 3x2mm round magnets the sensing distance was about 3mm. Need to order some more more size magnets like 5mm and 8mm magnets to test.
Drawback of these sensors is that the ball is attracted by a magnet. Not much, but still noticeable. DO the original sensors also do this?

I am "playing" too

I do not know, if the original sensors are attracting the ball, BUT this is not good. I think, Bally/WMS calibrated the magnets so perfect, that it is exactly for the distance they need with the most less attraction. I think, I should take one of the switches out of my safecracker.

Momentary, I am thinking more about the housing.

A friend of mine made a 3D-grafic and we want to put it on a 3D-printer the next days and want to see the result.

Reed_switch_housing_(resized).jpg

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from DDDwingmaster:

Drawback of these sensors is that the ball is attracted by a magnet. Not much, but still noticeable. DO the original sensors also do this?

I have never noticed any grab by the sensors on a passing ball on an installed switch, which I've done many, many times while testing these switches. However, I haven't tried with the sensor out of the game. Most of these are mounted below plastic (ramp, insert), so 9mm range is probably too much. In any case, try testing through a ramp and see how much the magnets in the switch grab a ball.

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