(Topic ID: 250333)

DIY Playfield post repair and chip proofing. How To all brands

By Yelobird

4 years ago


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46
#1 4 years ago

Sadly it appears this playfield ripple/delimitation/bubbling whatever issue is not OEM specific and even worse it does not appear they have figured out (or acknowledged) what the issue is. Unfortunately many of us have already Invested in this product so our only current option is to save what we have the best we can. I wanted to provide a step by step outline of what worked for me but NOTE I am not selling anything nor are my suggestions OEM sanctioned or the Only way to do it! We simply wanted to try and help others repair the issue Early before it Will become a chip or tear. It Will! Addressing this early should help defuse this issue (whatever is causing it) and Hopefully keep your investment of fun looking as it should for years to come. I will list all of the steps as well as links to the products I used. Ultimately this "Ripple kit" was around $21 to add to my ever growing pinball emergency kit but you are free to find your own solutions as you like or own. Lets get started and feel free to ask questions if I missed anything. Reminder I have No idea what the cause is nor do I have any idea when the industry will Fix this but for now we need to get creative!!

Yes I am singling out JJP for this example but I suspect this is Not specific to them they simply won the example prize....
As you can see, my New Wonka is not at this point a basket case but with under 50 plays this will NOT get better over time!
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#2 4 years ago

To start the process you of coarse need Carefully remove the plastics and post assemblies to access the damage. Do note do this CAREFULLY! If the post is set deep you Can tear the art and its game over!! I did some searching (garage collection of crap) and found a perfect tool (in my opinion) for the job. I vinyl repair iron. This is sold at most any auto parts repair shop. I picked mine up at AutoZone Years ago but for those Prime folks I will provide a link to Amazon that sells it for only a few dollars more. This kit is used to mend tears in vinyl seats (yes people still have those....) in cars. A very small iron with a smooth flat disk iron plate. The key is it gets hot but not soldering iron hot. Basically an iron for Barbie sized socks.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-81781-Leather-Repair-Electric/dp/B01E6JRZW6/ref=pd_rhf_se_p_img_2

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#3 4 years ago

The process itself is rather simple. Plug in the iron and Slowly press down evenly with a gentle pressure. Do Not try to iron the playfield just press straight down! If you iron you could tear or wrinkle the clear further. Also, a little goes a long way as they say. Hold it down for say 5 seconds then move to the next hole. Continue back and forth but avoid cooking the surface. We simply want to re-set the failed clear. Again, Go SLow! We want this fixed not melted lol. As the heater is brass it does not stick or leave any marks as long as you don't try ironing!

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#4 4 years ago

As you can see (best I could show with the lighting and camera) the ripply crap is completely Gone!! And most of the dug in ring has mostly disappeared. It will not completely disappear but it really looks Much better now. At this point I let it cool then cleaned the area with a soft cloth for the next step.

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#6 4 years ago

While there are currently Dozens of prevention solutions from this point I will highlight only what worked for Me. I opted and strongly believe this repair area needs to be sealed/bonded with mylar. Yes its possible this could still bulge later but it will not Chip which is something you Can't undo! As I have a mylar cutter I made some 3/4" (.750) diameter mylar rings with 1/4" center holes. Just don't want the post in direct Bitting contact with the playfield. #Pinmonk sells a wonderful kit of these mylar rings at a very fair price if you need them. I will provide a link if he doesn't mind.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1170-pin-monk/02469-jjpotc-sling-post-clear-mylar-ring-set

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#9 4 years ago

Time to re-assemble the whole mess! Do note I added a small washer to the back post and recommend the Same on any small diameter post as I believe there is simple to much applied pressure for that small a footprint. Just make sure to put the more radiused side of the washer down not the sharp edge side. Very Important!! Screw the posts in with your fingers NOT a big wrench! When you tighten the top plastic down with the nylon nuts it will be More than tight enough. Less is More! As you can kind of see in the final photos the end result is rather spotless. After a few weeks of observation I have not seen Any deflection or change. Possibly (assumed) the iron is actually heat setting the clear in that area which hopefully minimizes the chance of this crap coming back!

I do hope this helps those that are plagued but this unfortunate event. It truly sucks and is no doubt a blow to this rather Expensive hobby. Let me know if you have questions. I will report back if I see Any change to this repair. On to the Next Flippen game!!!

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#11 4 years ago

I should have noted without the photo shoot the actual repair only took maybe 5 minutes. Your time may vary lol.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

You have some serious balls! Good job.

Honestly the iron gets rather warm but trust me even though this repair is at your own risk I would not have advised if I felt the average DIY person couldn't handle it. If you can change a rubber you can do this repair honestly.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Thanks for this excellent post. Did you do "only" about the slings? Fortunately my NIB POTC had no raised clear out of the box. So the first thing I did before playing game 1, was to change out to star posts and medium density thin rubber washers. Before and after pics below. Fingers crossed this will keep any issue at bay. I will report back as well.[quoted image][quoted image]

Unfortunately I don't know if anyone can say early prevention will 100% guarantee success. I do hope yours stays perfect and you made a wise choice jumping on it early. As for which posts I did any post that looked questionable. Technically the issue is the playfield not the post so its more then likely across the entire playfield. The slings are simply "in your face" obvious and the kickers have a Lot more torque action then most other areas.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Really sad it's come to this.
An owners guide on how to repair defects in brand new $10,000 machines.
Do you guys really need it that bad? I don't. I'm over it.

Yes I think all agree with your statement but as this has already happened all we can do is Try to stop it from getting worse. For me, doesn't matter if you paid 1k or 20k for the product this should Not become the new norm. For now we simply need to protect our investment and decide later how/where we spend our money in the future.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I would say a heat gun with appropriate funnel attachment (low and slow) with a flat, non-stick "press" pad would allow for the same results and not involve purchasing what I think we should now call a "playfield iron."
My IMDNLE only has a tiny amount on thin posts in the upper PF... Not sure if I should be concerned?

You absolutely could as I said there is no only one solution here just a guide. I preferred this $20 solution as it provided direct to the area repair. I feared using a heat gun as the heat would distribute much further out and possibly create new issues. Plus I have spent more then $20 on goofier pinball tools....

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

nice job, wonder if some mylar would help once you get it flattened back down.

Absolutely would and strongly recommended.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Thus it has been named! : )
I have ordered one, and intend to share it with my local pinheads if they need it.

Way to pass it on Awesome. Good luck

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from tpir:

Thanks so much for making this thread.
What do people recommend for chipped clear in areas besides the posts? Still cut some custom mylar? Clear coat automotive repair kit?

Not an expert here but I have always applied a light drop of water thin super bond (liquid super glue CA) and let it flow in the area. Once set I apply mylar to secure the repair. I will add a link for clarity.

https://www.amazon.com/Starbond-Cyanoacrylate-Microtips-Woodturning-Stabilizing/dp/B00C32ME6G/ref=sr_1_1_sspa

#32 4 years ago
Quoted from 2pupPinz:

Might the mylar prevent the gas coming off that would allow the re-warmed clear to cure? I’ve never done any clear coating, but at what point is factory applied mylar put on, if you know? Just curious.

Can't really say for sure but looking at games from Stern, JJP, others there are many areas like the pops already covered with mylar from the factory so I suspect we are safe to add this little bandaid of mylar. My hope as noted is that the iron actually expedited the cure in that area prior to mylar application. I will say it does look spot on perfect (except the minor paint ring) and flat when done. Way better then it did. I guess time will tell just focused on not getting the chipping some have sadly had.

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

if my next new game comes with a xerox copy of these instructions to fix THIS, i’m seriously going to shit myself and clean it up with my wallet.[quoted image]

Ok funny comment but not a funny picture on a new game. Looking at the picture I am certain this would be fixed with this process though if you gave it a try. Really don't like the rubber washers they put down there. In my opinion (nothing more!) the center compression of any flexible washer forms it to a mushroom almost Forcing the clear underneath to bulge around the edge. I firmly believe distributing the pressure with a more rigid washer or wider post is the only answer with the mylar as a just in case against chipping. Wish you luck.

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Just trying to help with a word of caution... It's like when you cut yourself and you keep lifting the bandage to look to see if it's healed, you know you're not helping anything. I've heard of people saying Stern washers have sunk under the clear - you remove a post and that washer you're taking up clear and art work and creating a chip that didn't exist. Why risk it - leave it as is as the company's issue to you, not one you maybe created or made worse by tinkering around. I also fear people who are not skilled in doing this work and making matters worse - even Dave cautions about procedure... That said I commend him for what seems to be a reliable, cheap, simple fix for those with the skill to do it properly, which he obviously is. Why not wait and see what they come up with then cycle back to this if it's the best option. I'm still going to stand by don't go removing things just yet as my opinion then - the POTC post kit was when they had defective sharps posts that was thought to be a cause / contributor, this obviously is now a clear issue across multiple companies and not the same situation. Just trying to help folks, that's all... Me I'd bookmark this thread and make decisions what to do after other info is hopefully presented by companies.

I guess my only feedback to this statement is we Never received a Bandaid from the OEM we are simply bleeding out waiting for a band aid to peek under.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

As a distributor I'm going to say :
1. This fix looks good and nothing negative to say about it, I admire someone trying their best to help folks... but words of caution...
2. JJP is asking people to NOT remove your posts just yet - too many people are getting curious and may be causing potential damage that doesn't exist or need to be done by removing the posts just yet. Not saying at some point JJP may have some sort of commentary and part of that is to 'remove the posts and do this or that' but as of right now I am advising my customers to not start disassembling your playfield. WAIT for the company to say something... it'll be coming I'm sure.
3. In general, doing stuff to your game and causing damage or manipulating something they do not yet have a fix for (if they will) is something that the warranty doesn't cover - the warranty covers your game as you bought it and like adding mods or things to a game and if you do additional / new damage, that's on you, so again 'wait' until JJP has something to say before you start doing home brew stuff. We have no idea if doing this or some other 'fix' is going to be counter productive to what they are going to say. I don't know - just saying wait, then at that time, if this is the best option - you can always do this.
4. Be patient I'm confident both JJP and Stern are working to figure things out at this time to determine, what happened, how to prevent it, and hopefully how to resolve things for existing customers.
5. All of the above is from me, the distributor, and not from JJP or anything official - just saying what I would tell to my customer if they asked me about this. Right now, we are all just saying 'wait', let them figure things out and comment.
Just trying to be helpful to everyone and cautious here - I think it's great this shows results - but I think it's best to wait for official word from these companies, until then a little patience may be warranted. You don't want to look back and say 'I wish I waited for the companies to say something'. Not everyone is skilled at working on games and I don't want to see anyone causing additional issues at this time. I'm sending this to JJP as well for them to see / evaluate etc... maybe it'll help them which is good.
Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements

Let me say at best I am at least pleased to see some extension of JJP is reaching out with a reply or statement. I (we) look forward to any feedback you (they) can provide as a solution. Didn’t seem as the massive amount of complaint threads were getting across so I’m pleased this direction got some feedback. Thanks Joe for taking the podium and look forward to the solution.

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Love when people think outside the box. If this stops the clear from chipping that's fantastic news. However, I'm doubtful. This maneuver simple flattens the clear, it doesn't help the ink actually adhere to the wood which is problem 1 of a 2 part issue.
With this particular pf manufacturer stating he "intentionally uses soft clear" I'm skeptical. Does the heat actually harden the clear? With the composition of the material I'm doubtful. We've seen examples of the wider rings simply push the pooling further out. No disrespect meant fellow pinside, just don't want to see people potentially getting their hopes up.

No disrespect taken and your opinion is always valuable. I guess time will tell until the OEM provides the correct medication or bandaid. For now all we can do in my view is hold our finger (or iron) over the hole in the dyke and hope for the best lol.

#60 4 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Great effort by Yelobird, very impressive.
But -
How can anyone spend 5K-12.5K (Firm) for any of these machines knowing that there is a strong likelihood that you will have to deal with nonsense like?
Spending this much money on a luxury item should be a fun and enjoyable experience, not angst ridden.

Agreed completely granted I am not selling any machines simply offering help to those that have. I too hope they step up with a solution no question!

#65 4 years ago
Quoted from JosiahCox:

I appreciate what Joe is saying but the fact is, for now, JJP has not actually addressed this issue and it’s been known now for much to long for them not to address it. At least not if they value the relationship with their customers.
This thread for me is like a nuclear option. You never want to actually use it but we will all sleep better knowing this (as scary as it looks) is available as a last resort.
Seriously. I just want the option to obtain a playfield for Pirates that has a good clear coat but if that never happen, thank you Yelobird!

Dam, well said! Thanks.

#66 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Just because you flattened out the blisters with heat doesn't mean they're not coming back.
If the clear is defective there, it's defective everywhere on the field.
I was told by JJP to leave my posts alone and to keep playing my game. My damage is documented.
-wonka owner #08742206 (pf #105), play field case #5107

Very fair point and can't disagree. My only thought was in doing nothing most already know what the end result will be which is often not reversible or pretty. Lets hope a master solution is in the works from the OEM's for both the past games and future ones.

#72 4 years ago
Quoted from Gornkleschnitzer:

The problem with that is that telling the public "Yeah, we're not stocking these games right now because they're defective," effectively dropping the company as a supplier, is a good way to lose your ability to be a distributor for them in the first place.
This is honestly a very tough spot for distributors to be in right now.

I agree with your view. Plus Joe is one of the good guys and I believe he has good faith in JJP to find the solution. I applaud the fact that he stepped out on this precarious subject. Definitely a dangerous relationship line to walk yet he did so for the customers which is something I can respect.

#75 4 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

Really great info here. Thanks for putting this together and adding the links. I'm going to order the bits just to have in the toolbox.
Sorry this as devolved a bit from your originally intended target of providing the info. You did a very nice job of just presenting the fix and not interjecting a lot of hearsay and such about the manufactures and product.
I know there are lots of theories on the issues with these playfields and I don't really follow a lot of those types of threads but I have to assume its a combination of things that are causing these issues.
I assume its a change in the clearing products being used now VS back in the day. Also I assume its cure time. Anytime I have a playfield cleared from a trusted source they all tell me to wait a min. of 30 days so the clear can set up properly. Maybe this isn't happening before they start tightening down parts to the playfield. At least that's what this example looks like to me.

As I Love Lake Geneva I would be glad to assist if I am in the area and thanks for the kind words. While I love pinball the helping resources of this hobby and wonderful people I have met over the years are what keep it fun!

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from steigerpijp:

Yes, their livelyhood is at stake, its a thin line for them to walk on right now, with connections to both sides, often very friendly as most pinball related things are.
Its a serious problem , definitely , but no dealer wants to screw up a good relationship carefully built up over years, decennia even

While I don't think being a distributor is flowers and dancing most days I would bet sadly many of them are Really earning their keep with all the calls and complaints as of late on these subjects. I do appreciate the distributors I have worked with and glad to have them as a resource or at least a shoulder to cry on lol.

#78 4 years ago
Quoted from KingPinGames:

also long as you keep the crying to my shoulder and not my lap, we are all good.

Hey that only happened Once! Lol see, even in a rough topic a great distributor can still make you laugh. Your a good human Christopher!

#81 4 years ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

Take a hammer and a plate. Apply hammer to plate, it smashes. Put a new plate in a plastic bag. Apply same hammer to plate in bag. You now have a bag of broken porcelain.
Mylar will do nothing. Think of how useless phone protectors are against serious impact.
Rubber under point of contact will give your playfields a fighting chance against chipping.
Food for thought.

Totally fine to have your opinion no issues. I have always viewed the result of a rubber washer the same as post #29 in this thread. He simply added a rubber washer to protect it. Didn’t end well. In my opinion a rubber washer simply multiplies the pressure torqued like a spring. As stated my only intention here was to show what I did to erase the mound of clear before it hardened in time and cracked/ripped. How you choose to protect is totally up to you and can’t be wrong if that’s your choice. As Mylar has been used for decades in pinball I feel it’s a safe protection device and thus far has not let me down.

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

The rubber works when the size of it is the same as the contact area above. So yes no point putting large rubber under small posts. Mylar has worked for abrasions and ball dimpling. No history of it working for these posts causing damage. Just had to give the other side since you are telling people not to use rubber. I believe that is dangerous advice. Rubber has worked for applications where something brittle such as suntuff plastic roofing needs to be screwed down firmly but also protected from damage from the metal screw. Your heat iron is a great idea, but don’t advise against rubber.

No debate you have your solution and that’s awesome! Curious as you say don’t put a large washer under a small post what exactly are you putting under the small posts? Can’t change all the posts to large posts how are you solving that issue for my future reference.

#85 4 years ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

I put a 10.5mm rubber washer under posts that just have a small bit of rippling. If larger, then I add a metal washer first with same size rubber washer underneath (M6). Truth is I don’t have any fucking clue. I’m just trying to work out solutions myself. I had a inlane hole start to bubble so I had to do my own aluminium plate with rubber underneath to fix.
If you can rebond the playfield and make it good then that may indeed be the ultimate fix. Hopefully it does not dry out the clear too fast and make it brittle.
I haven’t had any extra ripples or chipping occur with my own solutions. But that’s like saying the bear patrols kept Springfield safe from bears.
Your approach certainly looks nicer. If I find further problems, then I may be a convert.

Thanks for your input and contribution. We are all learning here. Thanks

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

My rubber washers have caused no further issues and have actually pushed down the rippling clear a bit where they were installed. But I also didn't torque them down a bunch and they aren't on narrow posts so the load is distributed much wider than the original narrow posts on POTC. I also experimented with a rigid washer above the rubber to spread the load more, doesn't look too bad with a clear rubber washer but then you have even more added height. I was going to modify a washer to fit inside a star post base and plastic cement bond it so the post had an embedded washer/flat base. I think it's a bit dumb to have a hollow post with a narrow lip but playfields have managed to stand up to it in the past. I'd be interested to see how the flattened clear holds up over time, I can't imagine a "partially" cured clear likes to be manipulated but maybe it's still so soft that it will be fine.

I really like your idea of adding a rigid washer over the clear rubber washer. Sounds like that would help distribute the pressure on the hollow post. May need to try that on a game. Did you try using the rigid clear acrylic washer with this method at one time to make it less obvious over the metal washer?

#90 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

I haven’t shipped a game since this came to light of late.
My advice to customers is simply don’t disassemble stuff (and repeated by Jack publically) until told to do so and possibly creating a problem by taking up a post and maybe clear or art with it. Then it’s a problem the customer created by their actions. I’d rather if they have an issue it can be presented to the company as ‘here’s what my game looks like as you sent it’ not ‘here’s what my game looks like as you sent it, oh and a lot of other damage I did on my own’. Not a position you want to be in.
Secondly we don’t yet know what if any fix may come from the companies so why do things that might negate your ability to do the things the companies recommend. I stand strongly by my advice to pause, wait, then later if this fix is the best option do it. I’m looking out for the CUSTOMER so his position for warranty resolution is never hindered. Not sure what you’re bitching about.

I’ll say it again. As the Solo arm of JJP reaching out I see your actions as a rather stand up thing to do even at cost of business or relationship. Big props for doing so!

#92 4 years ago
Quoted from HOOKED:

Anyone else think this is a direct print problem art to wood rather than a clear? Seems the art is sliding off the wood and the clear goes with it. No.issues with CGC who screens the playfields.

That’s my theory also. Seems (in my opinion) when the industry went to high speed direct wood printers these issues started creeping up. (Or pooling up). The clear no mater how soft needs to bond to something fixed.

#95 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

The clear should not be soft like it is! If the artwork is debonding, that is a separate issue being made worse by the soft clearcoat...not the other way around. We have seen the debonding before on games with hard clear coat. Look at the issues with WoZ before they started putting mylar in the pop bumper areas.

If as witnessed on my game the art is coiling up with the clear leaving only fresh virgin wood you don’t think there might be an art bonding possible issue? Always figured the rule to any paint or coating project was the preparation is what defines the final layer. No idea really just seems like the art would stay put and the clear would just squirt out like jelly of it was only the clear. Guess we will find out when the OEMs send us the cure.

#100 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

I don’t disagree you should be able to witness Jesus tap dancing on a PF there seems to be an issue so why risk it and you yourself cause more damage. What is the purpose of removing a post at this stage ? Curiosity ? Someone posted about a Stern with their washers sunk into the clear - if you maybe took a post off and that washer came up with it you now have a more serious uncorrectible problem. I’m just saying there no purpose, companies are saying not to, and as a distributor I don’t want my customers risking anything - leave it as is to be able to document what you have. I’m just trying to protect people is all. Frankly I think Dave’s fix is ingenious, but still I wouldn’t do that until the company you may want something you from later says to do it. Don’t void a warranty folks by making more damage. And no company has told me anything along those lines I’m just saying as a customers advocate that’s my advice.

So your saying our games weren’t blessed? Lol. Appreciate the feedback Joe.

#103 4 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I really appreciate the high signal-to-noise ratio on this thread, thanks guys. Has anyone removed a metal washer and seen it pull up clear or art? I’m going to replace mine with PETG, and I wonder if sooner is better than later.

In my opinion and from image feedback from others most any rigid washer from steel to PETG will have the same result.

#106 4 years ago
Quoted from T7:

But what about the JJP tech bulletin fix of replacing the thin posts with star posts?
You are required to remove a post in order to replace it.
Also - removing and re-installing posts should NOT void a warranty. That is normal pinball machine maintenance, and is ultimately required to maintain any game properly.

I’m probably wrong and don’t speak for Joe (PinballStar) but I think he was simply talking about removing posts to DIY repair or simply investigate until the OEM has come to a solution verdict. I do believe his intentions to speak out were in good intention to protect his and other customers. Fingers crossed they will shed some light on this before the issue progresses to far.

#109 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I have rubber washers (found both clear and black) at the bottom, then put a clear acrylic over those and then the double star post. I don't think it's entirely necessary, I just removed my rubber ones to check and there is basically no sign that they were there. That's why the kit I am selling doesn't have them. I never used metal ones. The double star posts from Marco have a pretty wide/flat lip on the bottom which seems to spread the load pretty good.

Thanks. I may see what posts are available if this doesn’t work. So far no sign of failure but time can change things. Thanks

#111 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinzap:

Haven't tried this yet, but am going to order the heating iron and possibly work on my Munsters LE soon. I did find another Amazon link for what appears to be the same product in newer packaging (check out the Item # on both packages... same) at a lower cost.
amazon.com link »
Forgive me if this was already mentioned. If not, Dave you might want to update the first post... amounts to about $8 savings I think.

Hey great find. I assumed it could be found cheaper. The AutoZone by me years ago had them for $5 granted I never assumed I would be using it for pinball repair. lol Odd the things you collect to work on pinball machines. I must have 20 of those free Harbor Freight LED lights now lol. Knock on wood my game still looks perfect after maybe another few weeks of play. Considered getting one of those surface hardness testers to verify if the clear is actually getting harder and to what percentage over testing with my nail or wood screw poke. Waiting to see what the OEM's conjure up for a solution before investing further into test apparatus to verify. Does seem pretty darn hard now though.

#113 4 years ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Mine came in today from Amazon. I just adjusted the packaging a bit. ; )
[quoted image]

Lol too funny love the creative touch! If you do proceed, do so slowly its really not that hard to do. Best of luck to you!

#119 4 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

At work we use Shore hardness testers whenever we are using epoxies, RTVs or potting material. A small sample is put into a tiny plastic cup and allowed to cure right next to the location which the material is installed. That way it cures in the same temperature and humidity as the work location. Once 24 hours has passed we use a Shore A or Shore D tester depending on the material hardness. If the sample doesn't pass the specified hardness, we know the material did not cure properly and we have a problem.
For clear coat, I would think this would be Shore-D, but the problem is the clear is very thin and you might basically be testing the wood underneath. Best case would be to test at an area of pooling where the clear is thicker. That is the most likely location that the clear has not cured properly. Even still, this is probably not a great applications for a hardness tester...
The playfield suppliers should be keeping sample cups of each material they use for later testing. If not, everyone involved should go read up on ISO 9001.

Good info. Yes, I was looking at the Shore hardness tester. Granted the results would be less then scientific when probing the raised areas I was simply curious if there was a measurable change from post and pre ironing... lol More for my own curiosity nothing more. Still holding off on buying any tools with hopes the OEM's come up with a plan B of sorts. Theres always hope. Thanks for the info though!

#121 4 years ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

You can bet I'm going to try it! : )
I think it's genius. But I will be one of those that buys an extra playfield for their "Forever Pin". ; )

Just an suggestion but as it appears JJP is now randomly offering no cost replacement playfields Please see if you qualify before attempting any fix first! Hate to see you not get what you deserve. If you get a replacement no doubt fix it with no worries then you'll have a spare! Just a suggestion.

#124 4 years ago
Quoted from Spelunk71:

Unfortunately, the initial pooling on an outlane post on my new Met Premium has morphed into cracking. I know the “iron” method is not going to help with that. If anyone knows the best way to repair this damage and/or prevent it from getting worse I’d appreciate it (assuming Stern doesn’t offer a replacement). Thanks.[quoted image]

Sorry I don't think this repair will help much in that scenario as the clear has gone from jelly to hard to cracked. Beyond stopping that one now sadly. First suggestion as you have already done is document everything and submit to both Stern and your supporting distributor. After that best suggestion I can make is to lock that failed area with a piece of mylar offered at many locations including PinballLife and Marco. While it could be suggested to use a drop of water thin super glue I would be afraid your repair could get worse. Sad outcome hope you can get this mended.

#125 4 years ago

Minor sanity update. At this point I have repaired dozens of these now over many machines and so far No sign of further issue or failure. As I am still curious (and bored at times) I opted to order a shore hardness tester to do some Non scientific assessment of if and what this may be doing. Based on my goofy finger nail test it is much harder and not returning. Would love to see a digital value associated with the result to see if its real or simply a soft finger nail. Will report back (for my own interest anyway) this weekend with what I find.

#128 4 years ago
Quoted from pinballwil:

It won't work for the long term.
Look at it 3 months from now, it will be the same.

Actually it has been close to three months now on the first game and still good so far. Granted it’s not on route but I suspect at this point the objective of repairing and freezing (with heat) the issue seems very promising this far.

#129 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Some people had PMed asking about getting more of a specific size of mylar ring instead of a pre-made set, so I just updated the mylar ring options in the pinside pin monk store so there's the jjPotC/Wonka set (4 medium rings, 2 small rings) but also 10 packs of just Small, Medium, and even larger Large rings. Here's a comparison picture of the coverage:
[quoted image]
I didn't show it in the sample, but if you want more coverage on the slim posts, you can use a medium ring on a slim post so the protection will extend out similar to the way a Large ring does on a star post.

Awesome thanks much #vireland! The ones I used are the same as your medium size and fit/looked perfect for all posts. Really appreciate you offering these to others. Thanks!

#131 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Great info! I assume you tried this method after getting a replacement playfield from JJP? If not, that is what I call having balls!!!!

No I opted to repair it long ago as it seems time does not make this situation better and at the time no OEM was even acknowledging the subject. It’s honestly not as scary as it appears. I think the word Iron makes it sound scary lol. More of a press operation.

#137 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Why would JJP ship customers free sling post repair kits if that void’s the warranty?

This is a total BS guess from me but I suspect the OEM post repair kit was a solution provided to address the known sharp edge hole punch type original plastic posts. Just a guess. That was the first level issue which highlighted the now to common pooling issue. Hoping to do some Bill Nye hardness testing this week.

2 weeks later
#140 4 years ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

Just read this thread after finding the issue on a few of the smaller diameter posts on my IMDN pro, has anyone attempted the repair this way on these smaller stern posts? I was surprised there aren't more example photos in this thread of repairs others have carried out.[quoted image][quoted image]

My apologies I’ve been meaning to update the thread if only for feedback. To date I have fixed over a dozen games both Stern and JJP. This original Wonka still looks perfect after several months with no further signs of pooling. I waited to post as I am also experimenting with the same process only I added a few minute cure time using a UV lamp directly over the source. Getting mixed readings from the shore hardness tester but it appears to be rock hard after. Just wanted to get some time on the result before posting suggestions.

#142 4 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Hoping that is a typo for "now"

Lol thanks and fixed. Actually Fixed! Dam spell correct.

#144 4 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I am very tempted to try the "playfield iron" myself. Have you had any failures or any cases where doing it made things worse?

Absolutely None! Again its more of a Press than an Iron. Also note as I think some might be thinking this is like a soldering iron. While I wouldn't put it on my bare arm it doesn't get molten hot. The temperature distributes over the plate and the process only takes a few seconds. If you wish to try (as you've always been a Huge help to others) I could even send you some clear mylar washers as I made hundreds and they only cost a few pennies. Let me know and good luck.

#146 4 years ago
Quoted from statsdoc:

I have had mixed results. My "iron" (same brand) got pretty darn hot. It was too hot to hold the plastic handle near the ironing end. I lost perhaps a mm of paint and clear around the hole of where I was pressing, but the overall effect was good. I added a bit of clearcoat to lock things down and then mylar washers.
I did acquire the silicon washers from Titan and really like them on top of the mylar. It is a process, but I want to use my existing playfield as long as I can. I have another one coming from JJP, but want to put off the swap until much later.
Would I use the iron again ... I am not sure. I really appreciate the advice from Yelobird. It was my call. I have no regrets, but mylar and silicon washers might have been good enough for my situation.

Very true. As noted If the post already dug into the paint and tore it the iron process will only flatten it and cure it. Not really a magic eraser process sadly. Even in my pics you can see while the raised issue is gone the damage from the post is still partially visible. Primary effort is to erase the pooling before the buildup cures and cracks. Wish there was a way to forever erase the damage but sadly that will never be the case. More of a preemptive action to protect your investment. I can complain to Stern or JJP or simply never play the game but that seemed futile.

#149 4 years ago
Quoted from luckymoey:

Worked like a charm for me - thanks Yelobird! I ironed then applied Mylar rings, and am thinking about adding the titan washers. Couldn’t be easier. Used the iron for about 5 seconds, checked and repeated if necessary. Pooling is completely gone and any impression marks are contained to under the mini-posts. Iron is very hot but after the first try I wasn’t worried at all that it would cause damage. Just don’t press down hard or move around while ironing.

Awesome! Thanks for the feedback. I suspected it wasn't terribly difficult but I tend to sway toward risk/reward lol. Doing another WW, Beatles, and POTC this week oh joy...

#152 4 years ago
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:

I assume you are doing this as a service to local friends/collectors? Very nice of you.

Pretty much yes. I work for no OEM (other then mama) but any time I can help a friend or fellow collector I’m always in. Rather enjoy the opportunity.

#153 4 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

This is not a wide spread problem , only a small % of playfields have this issue.

Lol. I guess it depends on how you market the percentage variable. If they mean only a small percentage Don’t have an issue I agree. Lol

#155 4 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

So you are using both the "iron" and the UV cure LED?
Have you tried just the UV cure LED and not the iron?
I'm curious if sufficent time in the UV LED "booth" would harden these PFs before assembly. (thinking out loud)

From what I have researched you are correct. A proper Pre assembly UV cure Would have changed this issue. (Similar to the UV process used in hard curing resin printed parts) However, post assembly (funny) the iron helps buy softening the pooled clear then setting it back level and slightly tempering it. If you only UV clear a large bulge of clear it will more then likely crack to pieces in short order. Plus it will still look like a crater from hell. All kind of theory but based on the end results seems to work rather well for existing damage.

#159 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Yelobird: Could you please elaborate on the UV light step? Is this done immediately after pressing the area down with the iron? Can the UV light step be done at anytime before mylar and washers?
Can someone post a link to the Titan washers? Are these better than the Lowe's washers that we previously recommended?

Absolutely. The iron press process is done first to bring the playfield clear and art back to original level while slightly hardening both at the same time. From there placed a small (nail) UV lamp (link below) or similar over the repaired area. After about a minute the UV hardening seems to be complete as the surface is rather thin. Again, similar to the process used in hard curing 3D resin printed parts. At that point I light clean with alcohol and apply a mylar ring to protect from any cracking or chipping now that its set. Hope that makes sense.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KY5RX7B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title

#162 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Thanks! Can this be done at anytime after leveling the area with the iron? Or Does it have to be done immediately after for it to be effective?

Doesn’t really matter. Nor is it a mandatory process. i found the addition step gave me confidence the issue would never return. Time will tell.

1 week later
#166 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Yelobird: Have you checked under your repaired posts recently? Are they still holding strong?

No further issues and past issue is still erased for me. Good luck

1 week later
#170 4 years ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Did you also use the "Nail" UV lamp to help cure after "ironing" down? I think Yelobird has said he has seen NO issues after having performed this repair.

I am still trying to verify that the UV cure adds value. So far the simple iron press and Mylar rings works without further issue with minimal cost or effort.

4 weeks later
#174 4 years ago
Quoted from broada:

I’m considering this repair for some slight pooling on a Wonka I have had for about 3 months. Couple of questions from a relative noob:
1) will the fact that I have had the machine for a few months impact how successful the iron will be? That is, is there a risk that the clear has hardened to where this would be a problem?
2) on the Mylar step, I have seen elsewhere that one should apply wax under Mylar to allow it to be removed & replaced in the future. But it looks from yelobird and vireland that you should clean the area with alcohol. Is the idea that this is relatively permanent and we shouldn’t plan to ever remove this Mylar under the posts?

Just did another local friends Wonka with bad pooling and looked like new when done. All in 7 posts and the lane guide by the right spinner in about 30 minutes. No signs there was an issue when we were done. Mine after months now is still like new glad I caught it early so no worries.

For your questions:
1 As long as you repair the damage Before it starts cracking and chipping a few months won't matter. You just can't wait till it hardens and more times then not starts to crack/chip. Once it starts chipping its to late sadly. Rather simple process and Certainly beats doing a playfield swap!
2 Before applying the mylar rings simply clean the area lightly with alcohol. Do not wax you Want the mylar to bond the damaged area Not peel away from it! As a note, you also want to carefully clean the area Prior to heat pressing as you do not want to fuse dirt or debris into the repair.

Good luck with your repair. Really not as scary as you would think and I assure you the result is 100 times better then waiting for it to catastrophically fail.

#175 4 years ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

Thanks to Yelobird for the guide, I've just spent a few hours sorting 7 posts pooling on my IMDN pro.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Hot dam that turned out Great! Congrats. Just seen your post glad to see you put in the effort looks Way better now. Bravo!!

#177 4 years ago
Quoted from broada:

Makes sense. Appreciate the advice and all your hard work to put this guide together!

Good luck to you. Always around if you have questions. Just take your time and hopefully this problem will be behind you so you can get back to playing.

#179 4 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Did you do the UV light, too, or just the vinyl repair iron?

Just the iron and Mylar. Turned out perfect.

#181 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Huh? Didn’t you say you had done the UV light as well?

Yes,I said I tried it on one game (POTC) but I didn’t see a definitive value over just doing the iron. I’m sure it was harder but the simple iron process seems to solve the issue and takes less time.

2 weeks later
#183 4 years ago

Think this was already covered. Minor update fixed another Wonka and 2 other older title Mirco Playfields. All turned out great and still not a single issue with my original repair. Think it’s safe to say (for me) this was successful.

#185 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

What washers did you use? Did you use the silicone ones from Titan?

As noted I don't use any washers as I Personally do not see that as needed. I use the mylar cut rings to finish the repaired area before reassembling and never had an issue yet.

#187 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

But you added some to the small posts?

That washer was already on my game I simply put it back. Possibly I said it wrong in my post. Adding a slightly larger rigid (metal) base to those slim posts seems like a worthy add. Sorry for any confusion.

1 month later
#191 4 years ago
Quoted from smalltownguy2:

Every time this thread gets bumped I'm reminded about how annoyed I am that my playfield artwork is chipping off the field. Grr.

Sorry your having issues never a fun day. Having repaired hundreds of post pools at this point I am confident this works well and erases the issue with minimal effort. Hoping the OEMs have this issue resolved by now but for the xxxx games out there with this growing issue this seems to work very well. Hope you find a solution to move on and back to pinballing.

1 month later
#193 4 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I received a replacement playfield from Stern, so I decided to fix my bubbling playfield. I didn't bother ordering an iron as I found a ghetto way of creating my own. I used a cheesy little measuring cup as my metal and heated it with a heat gun. I heated it up to the point that I could barely not touch it with a bare finger. That was the minimum temp that would flatten the clear.
Here is the cheesy tool (filled with paper towel so I could push down on it):
[quoted image]
Here is a before and after:
Before:
[quoted image]
After:
[quoted image]
I did about 6-8 different bubbles with this method. The only negative effects are that the circle of the "iron" left a smoother circle that can only be seen in the most perfect lighting, and this will go away in time, and that the bubble sometimes leaves behind a small line where it was unbound from the PF.
Notice the circular line around the far hole:
[quoted image]
None of this is noticable with plastic washers down. I put on washers with an inner rim to allow for flex, which will lessen pressure to the PF:
[quoted image]

Love the DIY creativity! As long as it works I am glad you gave it a try. Looks Great. To date I have used my little $18 iron so many times it long paid for itself. I do wish it is never again needed but glad I have it. Even fixed a few minor bubbles in some cabinet art which worked rather well.

1 month later
#198 3 years ago
Quoted from cpr9999:

Hi Dave. yelobird
Great idea again by you!!
Just curious how things are holding up with the creative fix - still good?

Still looks like new with no return and lost count how many games I have fixed at this point.

6 months later
#201 3 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Nice clear instructions.
Time to do a few bits of pooling on my Iron Maiden.

Good luck to you. Very simple process actually.

#205 3 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Be conservative - a few seconds at a time and don't move side to side.
Be aware that the iron seems to get hotter the longer it is plugged in, so be careful not to overdo it.

Yeah that’s a strong suggestion. Plug it in when you are Ready to do the process and only do 3-4 then unplug it. Unfortunately these are not temp adjustable so you have to find that sweet spot from warm to lava cooker lol.

#207 3 years ago
Quoted from kell:

So apply the iron 3-4 times for a few seconds each time? Assuming one can tell it's enough when the coating is flat.

Yes per the instructions on the first page of this thread.

#214 3 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I absolutely, positively, would NOT recommend heating up the playfield "just in case." I would ONLY do this on already-damaged (pooled) surface, and only in extremely careful short doses.
If you want to pyt down mylar or Titan playfield washers, that would be preventative. Applying heat will do nothing good to an undamaged clearcoat.
I am begging you NOT to do this.

I agree. There is no value in fixing what isn’t broken. While Yes there is an issue with some Playfields with some manufacturers the issue is Not on every one. IF the issue should pop up, trust me you Will see it within the first 50 plays, then fix away. Otherwise just be observant and Enjoy your game!

3 months later
#217 3 years ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

I documented my attempt at this repair. Thanks again to Yellobird for coming up with a solution and for GorillaBiscuits pointing me to this thread.

Well Done! I knew you could do it and great to see you had a helper. A few reminder tips (hopefully you never need to do again).
1. On any new games or repair of any rail with fasted threaded stud Add a washer! Rails tend to vibrate side to side on impact and if they are imbedded into the art/clear they Will eventually scrape the surface off. Odd how they skip these on some areas?
2. Suggestion on using the heated iron to stay in control. The iron tends to heat up fast then get Real hot. Prepare the area, clean the area, Then plug in the iron. I continuously wave a finger over the iron waiting for it to get just hot enough but not Lava hot lol. Better to start cooler and build up then start blazing hot. After the single heat process is done, Unplug it! Mylar, washer, and assemble that area then rinse and repeat the next problem area.
3 You need to seal protect the repaired area with mylar but don't over think it. No need for fancy cutters or perfection. Use a simple Exacto knife or good scissors to cut a circle or strip to protect. As the mylar is clear you will never notice slight imperfection in circularity. We will add a mylar ring option to our website for as cheap as we can for anyone that is interested.
4 As you did successfully, Press up and down do not actually Iron side to side! If the surface gets hot to the finger touch Stop! Thats what causes the slight ring look. Unplug and wait till the area is touchable if needed.
5 Minor suggestion though not a must. These are cheap likely made in China irons. The brass iron surface is not always perfect (likely the reason for any rings) or sometimes has a sharp edge. I personally lap that face just a bit to ensure its perfect on a new iron. Place a piece of 200-600 (whatever) sand paper down on a very flat surface. Put the face of the iron down on that sand paper and slowly and evenly swirl in a circular 8 motion basically lapping that brass plate to perfect flat. Only takes a minute one time.

Again, well done and glad to see you mitigated the issue Before it turned to failure. Sad this needs to be done but it doesn't have to be the end of your pinball fun!

#219 3 years ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

First of all, thanks!
Second, to point 5, I tried this, albeit with 2000 sandpaper just now. It took off some of the "goldish" coating. Is that OK?

Completely fine. It's just a polished copper disk to retain heat. Just want it buttery smooth so the heat isn't focused on a single sharp edge. Really appreciate that you took the time to make a video. Very helpful to anyone considering this as it really isn't as scary as it sounds. Well done! Wish I knew how to make your post a "Key post?"

#222 3 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Would this work in areas where the clear has "lifted" off the edge of an insert? The clear is flat but there's a tiny like a tiny bubble in-between the clear and the insert. Thanks!

Would need to see a picture to assess.

#223 3 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Would this work in areas where the clear has "lifted" off the edge of an insert? The clear is flat but there's a tiny like a tiny bubble in-between the clear and the insert. Thanks!

Thanks again for sharing your pictures. For anyone interested in his case the issue was more an insert ghosting type fail. Insert lowering and separating from clear. Unfortunately not something this iron solution would improve in my opinion.

As an ODD alternate use of the iron I did have an older game that had some typical pooling (whatever) around the cabinet art by the legs and amazingly this iron worked pretty well at smoothing that out. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture as I was just noodling but worth a shot for decal mending.

#229 3 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

Serriously? What a fucking prick.

I’m lost. Why are you replying to YEAR old posts??? Did I miss something?

#231 3 years ago
Quoted from zr11990:

The last 9-10 posts are recent.

The one you replied to and about was over a year old. I was just confused by your post.

2 weeks later
#234 3 years ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Any concerns doing this method on a NIB game with a 2018 build date? Will it work if the clear has had 3 years to cure?

New process here and a some unknowns we will likely only know from experimentation is my guess. I have done an early Wonka that was well over a year old from production and likely the playfield was processed more like 2 years old but in that example the repair turned out just as if it was new when done. Key is to address it Before any ripping or chipping of the art. Can't give you a guarantee but will say I would safely do it and my guess is it would look better.

#236 3 years ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Thanks, how have you addressed ball guides jammed into clear? Same method? Iron, Mylar, washer to lift off playfield?

Similar. Remove rail, repair like post, apply cut strip of mylar, then the key is to install a metal washer under the metal guide mounts to keep the rail off the wood.

#238 3 years ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

Can confirm this worked on a 3 year old NIB play field

Awesome congrats! Never fun to do unnecessary repairs but glad it worked out for you. Well done.

1 month later
#242 2 years ago
Quoted from Av8:

Great job. Do u think a heat would a heat gun would work?

Guess that experiment would be on you. I personally fear that would cause additional issues in the surrounding area. Applying heat Directly to the issue is much easier to control and I have yet to have an issue and the final result has solved any issues I have come across. Good luck.

3 weeks later
#246 2 years ago
Quoted from Brkuk:

Could someone post a link to the clear washers?? I found the mylar washers. And which is better Mylar, titan or clear washers?? And what sizes??

I have only used Mylar washers on my repairs and never had an issue. As the attempted repair from the OEM was to supply hard washers on new games installed there still seem to be reports of issues so I just stick with repair and Mylar. Good luck.

#255 2 years ago
Quoted from MeesterPieter:

just thinking aloud here but maybe the ironing doesnt only harden the clear enough to not crack up again but may it also make the inking better stick to the playfield? if so this could also be used as a preventive measure in a new game with playfield susceptible to pooling and chipping?

I would not be able to verify that though I suspect the applied ink is not an adhesive layer so likely would not be assisted. If however they are base coating the playfield with a layer of cure Then applying ink then possibly it could assist to adhere there.

#257 2 years ago

With all of the continuing playfield issue threads it Sadly appears this problem is still far from resolved at the OEM level. While this repair Does work very well I do want to Strongly suggest a preemptive suggestion to hopefully avoid doing this repair in the first place! When you get your game take 15 minutes to pull the primary posts at the slings and install mylar protectors Before the damage appears! While not a 100% guarantee I feel certain this preemptive measure will drastically reduce the probability. Having the surface bonded as one large layer should help prevent it from spreading independently and reduce the probability of that surface rolling and eventually cracking! Again, just an opinion and yes does not seem fair that we need to service a New machine but it is what it is for now. Good Luck!

#258 2 years ago
Quoted from NightTrain:

Where do you get the Mylar washers?

I wanted to Avoid this as I did NOT want this help thread to come across as a Sales thread but due to Soooooo many emails we are going to offer these on our site for as Cheap as we can. No Profit! Just to hopefully entice people to preemptively try to prevent this. Will be listed today.

#260 2 years ago
Quoted from zaphX:

I -strongly- advise against this.
I had some art lifting under a post on Wonka CE - it was otherwise perfect (no pooling etc) and I decided to iron it down as a "pre-emptive" fix.
The first time I did it, it worked. The second time, I overheated it and the clear lifted and cracked.
It's fortunately not in a gameplay area and I bought myself a playfield anyway because we play the everloving crap out of that game, so I'm gruntled.
Let my mistake inform others: never fix what isn't broken, beware the iron heat, only iron if you're pooled and need to do it to arrest damage.

Agreed. Preemptive just install Mylar we are not making a grilled cheese here! Also, the iron does Not have a temp gauge. Prepare the area Then plug in the iron. It should be overly warm Not lava hot! The only people that said they had an issue let the iron heat for 5 plus minutes then tried to repair. Do not do that! Plug it in and use within 60 seconds. When repaired Unplug it to cool.

#264 2 years ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

I went to your site to buy some and could not find them. Just some feedback from a old guy.

Sorry not old I am just Slow... lol I promise to have them up Tonight.

#265 2 years ago

A product we are sad to offer but unfortunately for now you have to protect your investment. These mylar rings can be used after playfield repair using an iron etc. I however STRONGLY suggest using these to protect the playfield post areas BEFORE damage happens! A preemptive solution. Very simple to install and while not guaranteed has proven to mitigate or avoid issues long term which are often not reversible once the damage is done. Take a few minutes to protect your investment! This size was designed to support Both large and small playfield posts. You do Not want anything smaller as the goal is to bond that mass area as one so it stays together and does not pool up or allow the post to bite in or twist the surface area. Kit is sold as a pack of (10) which should be enough for most any game. Free US shipping on this kit!

www.TheModCouplePinball.com

IMG_6879 (resized).jpgIMG_6879 (resized).jpgMylar_1 (resized).jpgMylar_1 (resized).jpg
6 months later
#272 2 years ago
Quoted from Drac:

I don't really think you need an iron for JJP playfields (at least for mine anyway). I just used a hair dryer for a few seconds on the area of pooling then tightened the PETG washer down. When I raised the PETG washer again all was completely flat.
I just mentioned this because it may be unnecessary for people to be searching for and paying for irons when the fix is likely as easy as a common hair dryer.

Glad you got it all fixed. The direction of this thread was in hopes that owners Addressed the issue and provide a suggested start point to do so. I can say for a fact ignoring this issue Always gets worse! Once it fails and chips its to late unfortunatly. The iron used (in first post) cost near nothing compared to what we spend on general pinball items lol. A hair dryer can absolutely work but I personally found it heats a much larger area vs the controlled press approach. Will that matter? Don't know but also didn't want to find out fixing other peoples games... My Hope is that we Never need to use this iron tool or technique ever again! Unfortunately I have had to use this on more playfields (not only JJP) then I care to mention. Really late update but with a year in none of the repaired then mylar ring sealed fixes none have had an issue since.

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