(Topic ID: 250333)

DIY Playfield post repair and chip proofing. How To all brands


By Yelobird

9 months ago



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  • 199 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 35 days ago by zaphX
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There are 199 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
35
#1 9 months ago

Sadly it appears this playfield ripple/delimitation/bubbling whatever issue is not OEM specific and even worse it does not appear they have figured out (or acknowledged) what the issue is. Unfortunately many of us have already Invested in this product so our only current option is to save what we have the best we can. I wanted to provide a step by step outline of what worked for me but NOTE I am not selling anything nor are my suggestions OEM sanctioned or the Only way to do it! We simply wanted to try and help others repair the issue Early before it Will become a chip or tear. It Will! Addressing this early should help defuse this issue (whatever is causing it) and Hopefully keep your investment of fun looking as it should for years to come. I will list all of the steps as well as links to the products I used. Ultimately this "Ripple kit" was around $21 to add to my ever growing pinball emergency kit but you are free to find your own solutions as you like or own. Lets get started and feel free to ask questions if I missed anything. Reminder I have No idea what the cause is nor do I have any idea when the industry will Fix this but for now we need to get creative!!

Yes I am singling out JJP for this example but I suspect this is Not specific to them they simply won the example prize....
As you can see, my New Wonka is not at this point a basket case but with under 50 plays this will NOT get better over time!
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#2 9 months ago

To start the process you of coarse need Carefully remove the plastics and post assemblies to access the damage. Do note do this CAREFULLY! If the post is set deep you Can tear the art and its game over!! I did some searching (garage collection of crap) and found a perfect tool (in my opinion) for the job. I vinyl repair iron. This is sold at most any auto parts repair shop. I picked mine up at AutoZone Years ago but for those Prime folks I will provide a link to Amazon that sells it for only a few dollars more. This kit is used to mend tears in vinyl seats (yes people still have those....) in cars. A very small iron with a smooth flat disk iron plate. The key is it gets hot but not soldering iron hot. Basically an iron for Barbie sized socks.

amazon.com link »

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#3 9 months ago

The process itself is rather simple. Plug in the iron and Slowly press down evenly with a gentle pressure. Do Not try to iron the playfield just press straight down! If you iron you could tear or wrinkle the clear further. Also, a little goes a long way as they say. Hold it down for say 5 seconds then move to the next hole. Continue back and forth but avoid cooking the surface. We simply want to re-set the failed clear. Again, Go SLow! We want this fixed not melted lol. As the heater is brass it does not stick or leave any marks as long as you don't try ironing!

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#4 9 months ago

As you can see (best I could show with the lighting and camera) the ripply crap is completely Gone!! And most of the dug in ring has mostly disappeared. It will not completely disappear but it really looks Much better now. At this point I let it cool then cleaned the area with a soft cloth for the next step.

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#5 9 months ago

nice job, wonder if some mylar would help once you get it flattened back down.

#6 9 months ago

While there are currently Dozens of prevention solutions from this point I will highlight only what worked for Me. I opted and strongly believe this repair area needs to be sealed/bonded with mylar. Yes its possible this could still bulge later but it will not Chip which is something you Can't undo! As I have a mylar cutter I made some 3/4" (.750) diameter mylar rings with 1/4" center holes. Just don't want the post in direct Bitting contact with the playfield. #Pinmonk sells a wonderful kit of these mylar rings at a very fair price if you need them. I will provide a link if he doesn't mind.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1170-pin-monk/02469-jjpotc-sling-post-clear-mylar-ring-set

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#7 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Sadly it appears this playfield ripple/delimitation/bubbling whatever issue is not OEM specific and even worse it does not appear they have figured out (or acknowledged) what the issue is.

Really sad it's come to this.

An owners guide on how to repair defects in brand new $10,000 machines.

Do you guys really need it that bad? I don't. I'm over it.

#8 9 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Really sad it's come to this.
An owners guide on how to repair defects in brand new $10,000 machines.
Do you guys really need it that bad? I don't. I'm over it.

pretty crazy stuff

#9 9 months ago

Time to re-assemble the whole mess! Do note I added a small washer to the back post and recommend the Same on any small diameter post as I believe there is simple to much applied pressure for that small a footprint. Just make sure to put the more radiused side of the washer down not the sharp edge side. Very Important!! Screw the posts in with your fingers NOT a big wrench! When you tighten the top plastic down with the nylon nuts it will be More than tight enough. Less is More! As you can kind of see in the final photos the end result is rather spotless. After a few weeks of observation I have not seen Any deflection or change. Possibly (assumed) the iron is actually heat setting the clear in that area which hopefully minimizes the chance of this crap coming back!

I do hope this helps those that are plagued but this unfortunate event. It truly sucks and is no doubt a blow to this rather Expensive hobby. Let me know if you have questions. I will report back if I see Any change to this repair. On to the Next Flippen game!!!

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#10 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

A very small iron with a smooth flat disk iron plate.

You have some serious balls! Good job.

#11 9 months ago

I should have noted without the photo shoot the actual repair only took maybe 5 minutes. Your time may vary lol.

#12 9 months ago

Excellent info. My palms were sweating just looking at the pics of the iron on the playfield though. It worked great though, nice job and thanks for sharing!

#13 9 months ago

Thanks for this excellent post. Did you do "only" about the slings? Fortunately my NIB POTC had no raised clear out of the box. So the first thing I did before playing game 1, was to change out to star posts and medium density thin rubber washers. Before and after pics below. Fingers crossed this will keep any issue at bay. I will report back as well.

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#14 9 months ago
Quoted from John_I:

You have some serious balls! Good job.

Honestly the iron gets rather warm but trust me even though this repair is at your own risk I would not have advised if I felt the average DIY person couldn't handle it. If you can change a rubber you can do this repair honestly.

#15 9 months ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Thanks for this excellent post. Did you do "only" about the slings? Fortunately my NIB POTC had no raised clear out of the box. So the first thing I did before playing game 1, was to change out to star posts and medium density thin rubber washers. Before and after pics below. Fingers crossed this will keep any issue at bay. I will report back as well.[quoted image][quoted image]

Unfortunately I don't know if anyone can say early prevention will 100% guarantee success. I do hope yours stays perfect and you made a wise choice jumping on it early. As for which posts I did any post that looked questionable. Technically the issue is the playfield not the post so its more then likely across the entire playfield. The slings are simply "in your face" obvious and the kickers have a Lot more torque action then most other areas.

#16 9 months ago

All new games should come with these instructions.

Would save customer support a lot of time dealing with pissed off people.

#17 9 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Do you guys really need it that bad? I don't. I'm over it.

Just in it for the pinside fun now? That's even more depressing

#18 9 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Really sad it's come to this.
An owners guide on how to repair defects in brand new $10,000 machines.
Do you guys really need it that bad? I don't. I'm over it.

Yes I think all agree with your statement but as this has already happened all we can do is Try to stop it from getting worse. For me, doesn't matter if you paid 1k or 20k for the product this should Not become the new norm. For now we simply need to protect our investment and decide later how/where we spend our money in the future.

#19 9 months ago
Quoted from TreyBo69:

Just in it for the pinside fun now? That's even more depressing

No, I still have many games. But none with these issues. I couldn't take it. I'd lose my cool. And that wouldn't be cool.

#20 9 months ago

I would say a heat gun with appropriate funnel attachment (low and slow) with a flat, non-stick "press" pad would allow for the same results and not involve purchasing what I think we should now call a "playfield iron."

My IMDNLE only has a tiny amount on thin posts in the upper PF... Not sure if I should be concerned?

#21 9 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I would say a heat gun with appropriate funnel attachment (low and slow) with a flat, non-stick "press" pad would allow for the same results and not involve purchasing what I think we should now call a "playfield iron."
My IMDNLE only has a tiny amount on thin posts in the upper PF... Not sure if I should be concerned?

You absolutely could as I said there is no only one solution here just a guide. I preferred this $20 solution as it provided direct to the area repair. I feared using a heat gun as the heat would distribute much further out and possibly create new issues. Plus I have spent more then $20 on goofier pinball tools....

#22 9 months ago
Quoted from woody76:

nice job, wonder if some mylar would help once you get it flattened back down.

Absolutely would and strongly recommended.

#23 9 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

I think we should now call a "playfield iron."

Thus it has been named! : )
I have ordered one, and intend to share it with my local pinheads if they need it.

#24 9 months ago
Quoted from MurphyPeoples:

Thus it has been named! : )
I have ordered one, and intend to share it with my local pinheads if they need it.

Way to pass it on Awesome. Good luck

#25 9 months ago

Thanks so much for making this thread.

What do people recommend for chipped clear in areas besides the posts? Still cut some custom mylar? Clear coat automotive repair kit?

#26 9 months ago
Quoted from tpir:

Thanks so much for making this thread.
What do people recommend for chipped clear in areas besides the posts? Still cut some custom mylar? Clear coat automotive repair kit?

Not an expert here but I have always applied a light drop of water thin super bond (liquid super glue CA) and let it flow in the area. Once set I apply mylar to secure the repair. I will add a link for clarity.

amazon.com link »

#27 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

You absolutely could as I said there is no only one solution here just a guide. I preferred this $20 solution as it provided direct to the area repair. I feared using a heat gun as the heat would distribute much further out and possibly create new issues. Plus I have spent more then $20 on goofier pinball tools....

Yeah, I'm thinking you could apply the heat to the back of the press material (metal similar to your iron) and get the exact effect. I just don't want to buy a playfield iron on principle. I'm sure someone around me will though.

#28 9 months ago

not an option for people in Australia with 240V unfortunately

#29 9 months ago

if my next new game comes with a xerox copy of these instructions to fix THIS, i’m seriously going to shit myself and clean it up with my wallet.

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#30 9 months ago
Quoted from gumnut01:

not an option for people in Australia with 240V unfortunately

We now have power inverters for just such an application.

#31 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Absolutely would and strongly recommended.

Might the mylar prevent the gas coming off that would allow the re-warmed clear to cure? I’ve never done any clear coating, but at what point is factory applied mylar put on, if you know? Just curious.

#32 9 months ago
Quoted from 2pupPinz:

Might the mylar prevent the gas coming off that would allow the re-warmed clear to cure? I’ve never done any clear coating, but at what point is factory applied mylar put on, if you know? Just curious.

Can't really say for sure but looking at games from Stern, JJP, others there are many areas like the pops already covered with mylar from the factory so I suspect we are safe to add this little bandaid of mylar. My hope as noted is that the iron actually expedited the cure in that area prior to mylar application. I will say it does look spot on perfect (except the minor paint ring) and flat when done. Way better then it did. I guess time will tell just focused on not getting the chipping some have sadly had.

#33 9 months ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

if my next new game comes with a xerox copy of these instructions to fix THIS, i’m seriously going to shit myself and clean it up with my wallet.[quoted image]

Ok funny comment but not a funny picture on a new game. Looking at the picture I am certain this would be fixed with this process though if you gave it a try. Really don't like the rubber washers they put down there. In my opinion (nothing more!) the center compression of any flexible washer forms it to a mushroom almost Forcing the clear underneath to bulge around the edge. I firmly believe distributing the pressure with a more rigid washer or wider post is the only answer with the mylar as a just in case against chipping. Wish you luck.

#34 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Ok funny comment but not a funny picture on a new game. Looking at the picture I am certain this would be fixed with this process though if you gave it a try. Really don't like the rubber washers they put down there. In my opinion (nothing more!) the center compression of any flexible washer forms it to a mushroom almost Forcing the clear underneath to bulge around the edge. I firmly believe distributing the pressure with a more rigid washer or wider post is the only answer with the mylar as a just in case against chipping. Wish you luck.

Except pirates developed rippling around my miniposts at the top of the inlanes. And there are metal washers underneath the miniposts. And this rippling took a few weeks to appear. So hard washers on their own do not work. You need to put rubber underneath the metal washers or you are just pushing the problem outwards. Good luck!

#35 9 months ago

I think you did good to fix this as best you could, smart thinking , well done!

At least you’ve taken matters into your own hands to preserve it best no matter the outcome regarding any warranty JJP/stern/etc

#36 9 months ago

Is this "fix" more dangerous to do on a playfield that is one year old, and the clear have cured a longer time?
Playfield looks about the same it did out of the box, i thought it was just the posts/washers that had sunken in the clear during populating.

But now i understand that it's just air under the wrinkles, and the print is going to ship with the clear

#37 9 months ago

As a distributor I'm going to say :

1. This fix looks good and nothing negative to say about it, I admire someone trying their best to help folks... but words of caution...

2. JJP is asking people to NOT remove your posts just yet - too many people are getting curious and may be causing potential damage that doesn't exist or need to be done by removing the posts just yet. Not saying at some point JJP may have some sort of commentary and part of that is to 'remove the posts and do this or that' but as of right now I am advising my customers to not start disassembling your playfield. WAIT for the company to say something... it'll be coming I'm sure.

3. In general, doing stuff to your game and causing damage or manipulating something they do not yet have a fix for (if they will) is something that the warranty doesn't cover - the warranty covers your game as you bought it and like adding mods or things to a game and if you do additional / new damage, that's on you, so again 'wait' until JJP has something to say before you start doing home brew stuff. We have no idea if doing this or some other 'fix' is going to be counter productive to what they are going to say. I don't know - just saying wait, then at that time, if this is the best option - you can always do this.

4. Be patient I'm confident both JJP and Stern are working to figure things out at this time to determine, what happened, how to prevent it, and hopefully how to resolve things for existing customers.

5. All of the above is from me, the distributor, and not from JJP or anything official - just saying what I would tell to my customer if they asked me about this. Right now, we are all just saying 'wait', let them figure things out and comment.

Just trying to be helpful to everyone and cautious here - I think it's great this shows results - but I think it's best to wait for official word from these companies, until then a little patience may be warranted. You don't want to look back and say 'I wish I waited for the companies to say something'. Not everyone is skilled at working on games and I don't want to see anyone causing additional issues at this time. I'm sending this to JJP as well for them to see / evaluate etc... maybe it'll help them which is good.

Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements

12
#38 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

As a distributor I'm going to say :
2. JJP is asking people to NOT remove your posts just yet

How/when/where did they inform customers about this?

Quoted from PinballSTAR:

4. Be patient I'm confident...

Some have been waiting since last winter.

#39 9 months ago

What about the fix it kit from JJP where they instructed the posts were to be removed and replaced?

#40 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

As a distributor I'm going to say :

2. JJP is asking people to NOT remove your posts just yet
Joe Newhart
PinballSTAR Amusements

What? Nope. Are you not aware of the JJP post on their website concerning the POTC "Update Kit"? It's a post replacement kit. See link.

http://marketing.jerseyjackpinball.com/potc/Service%20Bulletin%20P-1%20POTC%20Post%20Update%20Kit.pdf

#41 9 months ago
Quoted from ViperVS:

How/when/where did they inform customers about this?

Some have been waiting since last winter.

Agree, this issue has gone on for too long to rely on a future communique. Current practice for Stern is to promise a populated playfield to swap in. JJP is issuing washer kits requiring post to be removed in order to install them anyways. Yelobird’s solution removes the unsightly waves of clear, protects areas of playfield with Mylar and switches to star posts to prevent future damage.

-1
#42 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Be patient I'm confident both JJP and Stern are working to figure things out

Well JJP might. According to Stern “there’s no widespread issue”!

#43 9 months ago

The question is, did heating/pressing make that area tougher by hardening the clear or getting the ink to stick or did it simply smooth it??

If a little heating/pressing helps, perhaps most of the playfield needs to be heated/pressed with a heat gun and press pad?

If this really makes the playfield better, the manufactures could use this method on all new playfields.

#44 9 months ago
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

Agree, this issue has gone on for too long to rely on a future communique. Current practice for Stern is to promise a populated playfield to swap in. JJP is issuing washer kits requiring post to be removed in order to install them anyways. Yelobird’s solution removes the unsightly waves of clear, protects areas of playfield with Mylar and switches to star posts to prevent future damage.

May or may not prevent future damage. Shop job down the road if mylar was ever removed what will it take off the PF? Regardless This will hurt resale on all these machines, this will be on everyone’s mind when buying.

#45 9 months ago

This tool will be included in the goodiebag of GnR and Elvira 3.

#46 9 months ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Really don't like the rubber washers they put down there.

actually i put the rubber washer there myself. thet's the post at the tip of the upper right flipper on JP2. it's a known problem that it keeps popping out of it's t-nut. so i applied loctite and torqued it down onto a rubber washer to give it some stability and strength. it's on location and takes a beating. it absolutely should be able to handle this without pooling up, and the fact that it doesn't is completely unacceptable to me.

#47 9 months ago
Quoted from Neal_W:The question is, did heating/pressing make that area tougher by hardening the clear or getting the ink to stick or did it simply smooth it??
If a little heating/pressing helps, perhaps most of the playfield needs to be heated/pressed with a heat gun and press pad?
If this really makes the playfield better, the manufactures could use this method on all new playfields.

Maybe Stern/JJP se this as a cheep fix and start sending machines with "ironed" playfield that fall apart after a year.
They seems to follow all other fix that pinsiders come up with. Bigger post, washers......

I'm out for now with Stern 2015- and all JJP.

#48 9 months ago

Just trying to help with a word of caution... It's like when you cut yourself and you keep lifting the bandage to look to see if it's healed, you know you're not helping anything. I've heard of people saying Stern washers have sunk under the clear - you remove a post and that washer you're taking up clear and art work and creating a chip that didn't exist. Why risk it - leave it as is as the company's issue to you, not one you maybe created or made worse by tinkering around. I also fear people who are not skilled in doing this work and making matters worse - even Dave cautions about procedure... That said I commend him for what seems to be a reliable, cheap, simple fix for those with the skill to do it properly, which he obviously is. Why not wait and see what they come up with then cycle back to this if it's the best option. I'm still going to stand by don't go removing things just yet as my opinion then - the POTC post kit was when they had defective sharps posts that was thought to be a cause / contributor, this obviously is now a clear issue across multiple companies and not the same situation. Just trying to help folks, that's all... Me I'd bookmark this thread and make decisions what to do after other info is hopefully presented by companies.

#49 9 months ago
Quoted from pipes:

Excellent info. My palms were sweating just looking at the pics of the iron on the playfield though. It worked great though, nice job and thanks for sharing!

As soon as I saw that I was like goodbye. GREAT tutorial though! Thanks for posting just not for me.

#50 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballSTAR:

Just trying to help with a word of caution... It's like when you cut yourself and you keep lifting the bandage to look to see if it's healed, you know you're not helping anything. I've heard of people saying Stern washers have sunk under the clear - you remove a post and that washer you're taking up clear and art work and creating a chip that didn't exist. Why risk it - leave it as is as the company's issue to you, not one you maybe created or made worse by tinkering around. I also fear people who are not skilled in doing this work and making matters worse - even Dave cautions about procedure... That said I commend him for what seems to be a reliable, cheap, simple fix for those with the skill to do it properly, which he obviously is. Why not wait and see what they come up with then cycle back to this if it's the best option. I'm still going to stand by don't go removing things just yet as my opinion then - the POTC post kit was when they had defective sharps posts that was thought to be a cause / contributor, this obviously is now a clear issue across multiple companies and not thee same situation. Just trying to help folks, that's all... Me I'd bookmark this thread and make decisions what to do after other info is hopefully presented by companies.

sage advice.

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