(Topic ID: 253917)

DIY: 'LISY', a replacement MPU for Gottlieb, Bally & Stern

By bontango

4 years ago


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  • Latest reply 25 hours ago by RandyW
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    There are 1,360 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 28.
    #401 3 years ago
    Quoted from hockeymutt:

    How’s the sound board coming along mine just took dump!

    you are refering to Gosof? https://lisy.dev/gosof80.html

    #402 3 years ago
    Quoted from koji:

    Yes, the first switch on S1, triple checked that.. it just doesn't seem to work.. although I can add credits the old fashioned way and start the game.

    Yes, I noted the same slow behaviour on my Cheetah pinball, so perhaps an issue with M-200?
    woz (Any chance you could test with your Meteor?)

    I found the reason for the missing freeplay. LISY35 does just emulate a coin chute switch, but Stern uses Switch#1,2,3 for
    coin chutes, and Bally #10,11,12. I will adjust that in the next LISY release using different switches for Bally&stern.

    On the game speed I can confirm that all MPU200 games running slow, I'm investigating on that but will take some time ...

    #403 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    I found the reason for the missing freeplay. LISY35 does just emulate a coin chute switch, but Stern uses Switch#1,2,3 for
    coin chutes, and Bally #10,11,12. I will adjust that in the next LISY release using different switches for Bally&stern.
    On the game speed I can confirm that all MPU200 games running slow, I'm investigating on that but will take some time ...

    Great, thank you for confirming that.

    Any hunches on the game speed? Funny, I always thought they were more similar.. I came across this:
    "Other big difference is the CPU on the MPU-200 boards was run at nearly twice the speed of the Bally-35 board. Stern developed a high level programming language requiring the extra CPU speed."

    But just adjusting the global clockcycle is no good?

    Any advice about how to investigate the sound? I presume that is something tricky as well, as it does not seem to come up in the 'sound command mode' for pinmame, but I know that pinmame is able to output it as the game sounds function.. just can't locate the correct location.

    Thank you-

    #405 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    You need one of my 6digit LED displays for the match/credit window, the position of the digit of the 7digit display will not fit.

    Thanks. Does anyone have a 6digit board they would be willing to sell or trade me for a 7 digit?

    #406 3 years ago

    Small Problems reported with BH ( one voice and music when the ball goes to the small playfield), but overall it is working good.
    I will upload Gerber and BOM for latest HW version over the weekend, so you can order soon.
    Software Image1 for Mars - Volcano - Black Hole - Devil's Dare is ready, other images will follow over time.

    #407 3 years ago
    Quoted from koji:

    Any hunches on the game speed? Funny, I always thought they were more similar.. I came across this:
    "Other big difference is the CPU on the MPU-200 boards was run at nearly twice the speed of the Bally-35 board. Stern developed a high level programming language requiring the extra CPU speed."

    But just adjusting the global clockcycle is no good?

    In my tests it showed up that LISY/pinmame does run HALF the speed of Bally games, where it should run with double speed,
    so the throttle value where I usually slowdown the emulation is of no use.

    Quoted from koji:

    Any advice about how to investigate the sound? I presume that is something tricky as well, as it does not seem to come up in the 'sound command mode' for pinmame, but I know that pinmame is able to output it as the game sounds function.. just can't locate the correct location.

    Within LISY I need to switch from the usuall routines to the Stern routines, with the current version sound will not run.
    Will have a look to pinmame sound mode too.

    #408 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Small Problems reported with BH ( one voice and music when the ball goes to the small playfield), but overall it is working good.
    I will upload Gerber and BOM for latest HW version over the weekend, so you can order soon.
    Software Image1 for Mars - Volcano - Black Hole - Devil's Dare is ready, other images will follow over time.

    If there's an update or fix for existing designs, that would be great- just ordered ten boards from current design.

    Thank you for your diligence!

    #409 3 years ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    If there's an update or fix for existing designs, that would be great- just ordered ten boards from current design.

    Which boards did you order?

    My 'bug' comment was about the new Gosof soundboard where I did not publish Gerber files so far.
    For Gosof I expect existing bugs to be eliminated by software.

    #410 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    In my tests it showed up that LISY/pinmame does run HALF the speed of Bally games, where it should run with double speed,
    so the throttle value where I usually slowdown the emulation is of no use.

    Within LISY I need to switch from the usuall routines to the Stern routines, with the current version sound will not run.
    Will have a look to pinmame sound mode too.

    Appreciated for sure.. it blows my mind how many little things there are to learn in this hobby..

    #411 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Which boards did you order?
    My 'bug' comment was about the new Gosof soundboard where I did not publish Gerber files so far.
    For Gosof I expect existing bugs to be eliminated by software.

    I misunderstood - I was thinking (late night) that there was a change to the LISY 80 board.

    #412 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Small Problems reported with BH ( one voice and music when the ball goes to the small playfield), but overall it is working good.
    I will upload Gerber and BOM for latest HW version over the weekend, so you can order soon.
    Software Image1 for Mars - Volcano - Black Hole - Devil's Dare is ready, other images will follow over time.

    thanks again ralph, you saved my black hole. my speech board toasted itsself and had the phat sound card from your build site all ready to go threw that in. Over thought the use of it but figured it out! wasted a week trying to repair the original when i had a solution at my disposal. not bad for a total of $20.

    #413 3 years ago
    Quoted from hockeymutt:

    thanks again ralph, you saved my black hole. my speech board toasted itsself and had the phat sound card from your build site all ready to go threw that in. Over thought the use of it but figured it out! wasted a week trying to repair the original when i had a solution at my disposal. not bad for a total of $20.

    If you feel like parting with your original board let me know. Would be interested as a project to repair.

    Robert

    #414 3 years ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    If you feel like parting with your original board let me know. Would be interested as a project to repair.
    Robert

    hey robot prob going to keep it, i know the sc-01 is fine and working i could trigger pheoms just had a latch issue. \

    #415 3 years ago
    Quoted from hockeymutt:

    hey robot prob going to keep it, i know the sc-01 is fine and working i could trigger pheoms just had a latch issue. \

    No worries. If you are just stuck and want it repaired I can help with that too. I can run the board in my volcano or talking haunted house after repairs to confirm it is fixed. I've already repaired several of these boards. Years ago I also made an emulated SC-01A module that was featured in SERVO magazine so I am very familiar with the SC-01A chips. Been using those since 1984 on multiple projects.

    Robert

    #416 3 years ago

    Any idea why all segments are locked on on “e” on a credit? Checked the wiring and all good.

    Also would the sound phat, even with jumper I can’t adjust volume. Pot is all to left and at boot getting “lisy volume is at 180%)
    B17E3603-CE95-4C34-98E7-4E7C48E2665C (resized).jpegB17E3603-CE95-4C34-98E7-4E7C48E2665C (resized).jpeg

    #417 3 years ago
    Quoted from hockeymutt:

    Any idea why all segments are locked on on “e” on a credit? Checked the wiring and all good.

    The original display do work?
    What LEDs do you have used, the blue from my link?

    Quoted from hockeymutt:

    Also would the sound phat, even with jumper I can’t adjust volume. Pot is all to left and at boot getting “lisy volume is at 180%)

    The capacitor in the sound section is 220nF?

    #418 3 years ago

    Can someone confirm the value of the 5-pin SIP resistor at R29 for the Bally Lamp, Sound, and Solenoid tester? That one isn't clear and I want to make sure I install the right one. Looks like it is just a set of pull-ups for the DIP switch so probably not too critical.

    #419 3 years ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    Looks like it is just a set of pull-ups for the DIP switch so probably not too critical.

    Yes, it is only a set of pull-ups so you can use a value in the range of 10K up to 56K without problems.
    I have added the schematics to my website
    https://lisy.dev/media/files/bally_tester_1_10_final_sch.pdf

    #420 3 years ago

    Thanks for the clarification! Part of the reason I asked was that some of the other LISY projects used much lower values.

    1 week later
    #421 3 years ago

    Hello LISYsters.

    I was wondering what the feasibility might be of using the original rom game sound output via the Phat board?

    Thank you-

    #422 3 years ago

    Dear fellow pinheads, I had ten LISY 80 boards made (blank) and only need five. If someone out there wants one, just PM me - you pay what I pay (plus shipping to you!)..... Waiting on parts from Mouser and some Pi Zeros. Then the real work starts :O

    #423 3 years ago

    For Pi Day, Adafruit is giving 10% off on all the Pi stuff.

    Use code: PIDAY

    https://www.adafruit.com/category/105

    #424 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    For Pi Day, Adafruit is giving 10% off on all the Pi stuff.
    Use code: PIDAY
    https://www.adafruit.com/category/105

    Anyone know of a way to get more than one Pi Zero ordered besides buying the kits from the jungle? TIA.

    #425 3 years ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    Anyone know of a way to get more than one Pi Zero ordered besides buying the kits from the jungle? TIA.

    MicroCenter sells 10 packs, but you have to risk covid because they are in-store only.

    #426 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    MicroCenter sells 10 packs, but you have to risk covid because they are in-store only.

    Gotcha, I'll ask a friend in Cinci - maybe he can pick up some. Thanks!

    #427 3 years ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    Anyone know of a way to get more than one Pi Zero ordered besides buying the kits from the jungle? TIA.

    I've purchased 18 of them from pishop:

    https://www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-zero-wireless-wh-pre-soldered-header/

    #428 3 years ago

    Hi,

    Can the pic's PIC18F45K22-IP (lisy80) be replaced with the newer version PIC18F45Q10-I/P ?

    Thanks!

    #429 3 years ago

    Any update on the Bally display board tweaks?

    Thanks,

    Jim

    #430 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinMario:

    Can the pic's PIC18F45K22-IP (lisy80) be replaced with the newer version PIC18F45Q10-I/P

    Never tried it, why do you want to use it, the PIC18F45K22 should be widely available ...

    #431 3 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    Any update on the Bally display board tweaks?

    I have received version 1.3 and hope to find some time to test them over the weekend

    #432 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Never tried it, why do you want to use it, the PIC18F45K22 should be widely available ...

    I don't 'want' to use it, but when i looked the PIC18F45K22 up at Microchip : https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC18F45K22
    is says a ' Newer Device Available PIC18F45Q10' hence my question, (maybe the PIC18F45K22 is near eof).

    #433 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinMario:

    I don't 'want' to use it, but when i looked the PIC18F45K22 up at Microchip : https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC18F45K22
    is says a ' Newer Device Available PIC18F45Q10' hence my question, (maybe the PIC18F45K22 is near eof).

    Quoted from PinMario:

    I don't 'want' to use it, but when i looked the PIC18F45K22 up at Microchip : https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC18F45K22
    is says a ' Newer Device Available PIC18F45Q10' hence my question, (maybe the PIC18F45K22 is near eof).

    Quoted from PinMario:

    I don't 'want' to use it, but when i looked the PIC18F45K22 up at Microchip : https://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/en/PIC18F45K22
    is says a ' Newer Device Available PIC18F45Q10' hence my question, (maybe the PIC18F45K22 is near eof).

    Don't worry about PIC18F45K22 availability or EOL, it is best to stick with that part as it has been tested with many System 1, Bally 35 and System 80 games. Switching to the Q10 introduces compatibility and operational risk and the code would have to be recompiled too.

    #434 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    NEWS ABOUT THE BALLY DISPLAYS
    we did some further testing and it looks like with changing the R15 10K resistor to a 22K the ghosting is vanished.
    I have updated the BOM accordingly. In case you already ordered your PCBs see below what you need to change[quoted image]

    In case you are curious why the 10Ks are a problem, the reason is likely because most signals on the Bally MPU have a ~2.1K series resistor on them. Once you have (5) 10Ks in parallel, that is a 2K resistor which creates a voltage divider and reduces the low value voltage above the threshold voltage of the gate input. With the 22Ks you still have this effect but the resulting voltage likely meets the threshold voltage of your input gate. Thanks for sharing these awesome projects!!!

    #435 3 years ago

    Someone mentioned cutting pin one on the Bally displays for the 200V input, as it's not needed - is that right?

    #436 3 years ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    Someone mentioned cutting pin one on the Bally displays for the 200V input, as it's not needed - is that right?

    Probably easier to just remove fuse F2 from the transformer rectifier board. Then there is no high voltage going anywhere (including the solenoid driver board).

    #437 3 years ago
    Quoted from emsrph:

    Probably easier to just remove fuse F2 from the transformer rectifier board. Then there is no high voltage going anywhere (including the solenoid driver board).

    This is a test for me, so I had planned on placing one display in place. Eventually I'll replace all five.

    I don't have the schematic in front of me, so my next questions would be - is pin 1 the high voltage input? And is pin 1 part of a circuit on the display board?

    #438 3 years ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    This is a test for me, so I had planned on placing one display in place. Eventually I'll replace all five.
    I don't have the schematic in front of me, so my next questions would be - is pin 1 the high voltage input? And is pin 1 part of a circuit on the display board?

    Pin #1 on a standard display is the high voltage. On the LISY display don’t know if it connects to anything...

    #439 3 years ago

    Question.

    Had a batch made of 10 pcs lisy80 and 10 pcs lisy1.

    The lisy80 work fine. It’s the lisy1 who is causing a headache.

    It’s tried in a gottlieb torch where the current mpu doesn’t really work but does boot and shows something on the lcd display.

    However, the lisy1 not . It appears to be booting from the SD, the leds go from yellow to green and once booted the Torch gives a Gottlieb click and that’s it. Nothing on the display and no game can be started.

    Tried several PCB and all the same issue. The pics are flashed with a programmer. Also tried several pics and no change. Tried another SD and no change.

    Giving the fact that nothing happens on the displays, any suggestion what to try next?

    #440 3 years ago

    Is there a Mouser or other parts list for the Bally SMD display boards? Do they need any through hole soldered parts other than the digits?

    I see shopping carts on the LISY site. Is that all that is needed? The carts are named (non SMD only) which seems to imply that this is what isn’t already down by the pick and place from the factory.

    Thanks,

    Jim

    #441 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rensh:

    Question.
    Had a batch made of 10 pcs lisy80 and 10 pcs lisy1.
    The lisy80 work fine. It’s the lisy1 who is causing a headache.
    It’s tried in a gottlieb torch where the current mpu doesn’t really work but does boot and shows something on the lcd display.
    However, the lisy1 not . It appears to be booting from the SD, the leds go from yellow to green and once booted the Torch gives a Gottlieb click and that’s it. Nothing on the display and no game can be started.
    Tried several PCB and all the same issue. The pics are flashed with a programmer. Also tried several pics and no change. Tried another SD and no change.
    Giving the fact that nothing happens on the displays, any suggestion what to try next?

    Hard to say if the game doesn't work. Have you verified all the power is correct out of the power board?

    #442 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rensh:

    Question.
    Had a batch made of 10 pcs lisy80 and 10 pcs lisy1.
    The lisy80 work fine. It’s the lisy1 who is causing a headache.
    It’s tried in a gottlieb torch where the current mpu doesn’t really work but does boot and shows something on the lcd display.
    However, the lisy1 not . It appears to be booting from the SD, the leds go from yellow to green and once booted the Torch gives a Gottlieb click and that’s it. Nothing on the display and no game can be started.
    Tried several PCB and all the same issue. The pics are flashed with a programmer. Also tried several pics and no change. Tried another SD and no change.
    Giving the fact that nothing happens on the displays, any suggestion what to try next?

    What PI are you using 0, 2 ,3 ?
    You could try programming the pic's with the lisy 1 board its self and see if that works. also could put unit in debug and then look at the log files to see what the issue is .

    #443 3 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    Is there a Mouser or other parts list for the Bally SMD display boards? Do they need any through hole soldered parts other than the digits?
    I see shopping carts on the LISY site. Is that all that is needed? The carts are named (non SMD only) which seems to imply that this is what isn’t already down by the pick and place from the factory.
    Thanks,
    Jim

    Aside from the LED diplays, I believe the parts list is in the document - if I remember right, you'll need 0.156" male connectors, like what you'll use in other pinball boards, a few 0.100" male connectors (for jumpers), and one very tiny 10K pot that the only thing I found was a surface mount part to fit the board.

    10K trimmer pot: 652-3314J-1-103G
    .100" male connectors: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-4-103327-3
    .100" male connectors (double, for jumpers): https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/538-90131-0132

    I believe everything else on the displays were part of the assembly, as most of the board is surface mount parts.

    #444 3 years ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    Aside from the LED diplays, I believe the parts list is in the document - if I remember right, you'll need 0.156" male connectors, like what you'll use in other pinball boards, a few 0.100" male connectors (for jumpers), and one very tiny 10K pot that the only thing I found was a surface mount part to fit the board.
    10K trimmer pot: 652-3314J-1-103G
    .100" male connectors: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/571-4-103327-3
    .100" male connectors (double, for jumpers): https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/538-90131-0132
    I believe everything else on the displays were part of the assembly, as most of the board is surface mount parts.

    Latest version has an smd trim pot.

    #445 3 years ago
    Quoted from emsrph:

    Pin #1 on a standard display is the high voltage. On the LISY display don’t know if it connects to anything...

    No, it is not connected on the display, however the 'pin itself' does have high voltage level of course

    #446 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rensh:

    However, the lisy1 not . It appears to be booting from the SD, the leds go from yellow to green and once booted the Torch gives a Gottlieb click and that’s it. Nothing on the display and no game can be started.

    If the display PIC is programmed correctly you will see 'LISY1 wait for PI' immidiatly after switching on the game on the displays.
    Any chance to test your LISY1 in a working System1 game to check if its the pinball or the LISY?

    #447 3 years ago
    Quoted from heckheck:

    I see shopping carts on the LISY site. Is that all that is needed? The carts are named (non SMD only) which seems to imply that this is what isn’t already down by the pick and place from the factory.

    Correct, you only need the parts from the (Reichelt) shopping cart. If someone can provide a Mouser/digikey cart I'm happy to publish it.

    btw: I have tested version 1.3 successfully yesterday, documentation, gerber, ... will be published tomorrow at the latest.
    So if you think about to order displays, you may want to wait bit for latest version

    #448 3 years ago

    Version 1.3 of bally display and a case for my PIC programmer is online now.
    Check out the news page https://lisy.dev/news.html

    #449 3 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Version 1.3 of bally display and a case for my PIC programmer is online now.
    Check out the news page https://lisy.dev/news.html

    On the Bally 7 digit, I'm getting a missing part. Any ideas? They suggest two replacements but there's very low stock for any. Is this a case where one just waits till they have sufficient stock on hand to make the order?

    Alternates listed
    AO3401A SOT-23-3 VBSEMI ELEC
    AO3401A SOT-23-3 BOURNE SEMICON (SHENZHEN)

    Thanks!
    -Jim

    T8,T9,T10,T11,T12,T13,T14,T15

    AO3401A

    SOT-23-3L

    No part selected
    Search
    8

    #450 3 years ago

    Thanks for pointing this out.

    I would go with the AO3401A SOT-23-3 BOURNE SEMICON (SHENZHEN)
    LCSC Part # C306862
    over 5800 in stock at the moment

    There is always movement in the JLC library

    I have updated both BOM accordently

    There are 1,360 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 28.

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