(Topic ID: 253917)

DIY: 'LISY', a replacement MPU for Gottlieb, Bally & Stern

By bontango

2 years ago


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  • Latest reply 1 day ago by bontango
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    There are 746 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 15.
    #701 43 days ago

    bontango Sound card worked great in Black hole !

    But I am still struggling with the 2 first digits missing on display 1, 3 and the one in the playfield.
    Connectors have been repinned.
    I have measured connectivity from connector to buffer chips, between buffer chips and from buffer chips to FPGA.
    Everything is as it should.

    I have tried software version 0.93 and 0.96.
    I have tried 2 different FPGA boards.
    I have tried export and US versions of the ROMS.
    Chips have been swapped around.
    Everything else in the machine works.
    Ground mods have been done, connector between MPU and drive is brand new etc. etc.
    Power is stable.

    Is there any faint possibility this might be a software fault ?
    If not, I will have to change the main board itself.

    #702 42 days ago
    Quoted from Zigzagzag:

    Is there any faint possibility this might be a software fault ?

    IMHO not, I have no feedback from other BH users reporting what you see

    I would first check if the cause is with GottFA or the pin itself.
    You said you tested the board in a Genesis (80B) and it worked there.
    However you need to swap with a 80 or 80A game to be sure that it is working as the circuit in question is not used with 80B games.

    1 week later
    #703 30 days ago

    Anyone have an extra BallyFA SMD they'd like to sell?

    1 week later
    #704 20 days ago

    Thinking about putting together a Flight 2000 from spare parts I have.
    Am I correct in thinking a LISY35SMD will work here ?
    Are the sounds already present in the Lisy image, or do I need to find them myself ?
    If I use an integrated sound card, will the speech part work as well ?

    #705 20 days ago
    Quoted from Zigzagzag:

    Thinking about putting together a Flight 2000 from spare parts I have.
    Am I correct in thinking a LISY35SMD will work here ?
    Are the sounds already present in the Lisy image, or do I need to find them myself ?
    If I use an integrated sound card, will the speech part work as well ?

    Hi there, in the past, there was an issue with performance and slow processing. I am not sure if that has been addressed yet:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-lisy-a-replacement-mpu-for-gottlieb-bally-amp-stern/page/9#post-6155256

    The sounds are technically there, as with pinmame, but I am not sure if the -35 handles them well etc.

    I do not think you can use the integrated sound card, as the lisy-35 does not support the top stern audio extra header pins? that was the case for my tests back when I looked into it anyway?

    Thanks-

    #706 20 days ago
    Quoted from Zigzagzag:

    Thinking about putting together a Flight 2000 from spare parts I have.
    Am I correct in thinking a LISY35SMD will work here ?
    Are the sounds already present in the Lisy image, or do I need to find them myself ?
    If I use an integrated sound card, will the speech part work as well ?

    If it doesn’t I still have an extremely clean original Flight 2000 board as well as one of the Speech boards.

    #707 20 days ago
    Quoted from koji:

    Hi there, in the past, there was an issue with performance and slow processing. I am not sure if that has been addressed yet:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-lisy-a-replacement-mpu-for-gottlieb-bally-amp-stern/page/9#post-6155256
    The sounds are technically there, as with pinmame, but I am not sure if the -35 handles them well etc.
    I do not think you can use the integrated sound card, as the lisy-35 does not support the top stern audio extra header pins? that was the case for my tests back when I looked into it anyway?
    Thanks-

    Sorry if I was unclear - I meant the pHat sound card, not the original Stern speech card ?

    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    If it doesn’t I still have an extremely clean original Flight 2000 board as well as one of the Speech boards.

    I might just take you up on that offer if this doesn't pan out - thanks

    #708 19 days ago

    Just wanted to say that I had two machines (Bally KISS and Paragon) at MGC this past weekend. They were both running BallyFA boards, and they both ran perfectly, from what I’m told. I didn’t get a single complaint, and almost every time I checked them out, they were being played.
    Nice work bontango !

    #709 19 days ago

    bontango JLCPCB want me to confirm polarities on the Lisy35 SMD I am trying to order. Is this information missing from the Gerber file somehow ?

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    #710 17 days ago

    You can safely confirm polarity, the Gerber & CPL are tested. I do not know what JLC is missing.
    Sometimes they ask for extra confirmation, sometimes not.
    Maybe depending on the technican who is working on the case ...

    #711 17 days ago
    Quoted from Grangeomatic:

    ... and they both ran perfectly, from what I’m told. I didn’t get a single complaint, and almost every time I checked them out, they were being played.
    Nice work bontango !

    thanks for the feedback, and please do not forget to send me pictures from the event

    #712 17 days ago

    Grangeomatic

    I played your pins at MGC....Kiss was a standout for me(sounds were excellent! )
    Paragon was also solid...thanks for bringing them.
    my first MGC...will be back...great show!

    #713 17 days ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    thanks for the feedback, and please do not forget to send me pictures from the event

    Crap, I know I said I’d get pics, but I didn’t only bring these two games, I brought 6 others for a total of 8. Let’s just say it was more work than I had planned for...
    And as such, I forgot to take any pics of my games. Sorry.
    There are lots of general pics in the official unofficial MGC thread.

    #714 12 days ago

    Lisy1 running in sinbad. I'll probably keep this board as a test board and sell the machine with the niwumpf it came with. I like the idea of having a known good board especially with the wifi features2021-11-15 15.07.40 (resized).jpg

    #715 12 days ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    Lisy1 running in sinbad. I'll probably keep this board as a test board and sell the machine with the niwumpf it came with. I like the idea of having a known good board especially with the wifi features[quoted image]

    The LISY1 is a great board. I have one that I built from a blank PCB that I got from Ken Layton before he passed. Sent him a thank you that I hope he got to read.

    LISY1 was a great help in trouble shooting. Confirmed that the displays and wiring were all ok in my Buck Rogers. Found an issue with a bad spider chip on the original MPU. Cheddar was awesome and hooked me up with a parts System 1 board that I was able to harvest a display spider chip from. Fixed my original MPU so game running all original boards. Still have the LISY1 board to help test other games.

    #716 12 days ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    The LISY1 is a great board.

    Thank you for that comment

    latest news: There is now a 'LISY1 SMD' version available for people who do not want solder themself.
    Schematics are identical with latest LISY1 version (v 6.0.3 ) but you can let JLC assembling the board with
    nearly ALL components ( sockets available for the 3 PICs and the other ICs in 'DIP layout' )

    https://lisy.dev/lisy1.html#a2310

    LISY80 SMD will follow ASAP

    #717 12 days ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Thank you for that comment
    latest news: There is now a 'LISY1 SMD' version available for people who do not want solder themself.
    Schematics are identical with latest LISY1 version (v 6.0.3 ) but you can let JLC assembling the board with
    nearly ALL components ( sockets available for the 3 PICs and the other ICs in 'DIP layout' )
    https://lisy.dev/lisy1.html#a2310
    LISY80 SMD will follow ASAP

    Was getting ready to order some Lisy1SMDs, now I'll wait and order some Lisy80SMDs too

    #718 10 days ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    Was getting ready to order some Lisy1SMDs, now I'll wait and order some Lisy80SMDs too

    Here we go: https://lisy.dev/lisy80.html#a2316
    Price at JLC for 5 boards is around 80 Euro plus shipping & customs
    Hope it works as not tested yet!!! Let me know in case of problems/questions/ ...
    In case you order and test, would be great if you can send me pictures of the PCB for my website
    Note: at the moment there is an inventory shortage at JLC for the 47K 9pin resistor array, this component
    you need to solder yourself ( 56K as a replacement is also fine)

    have fun

    #719 10 days ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Note: at the moment there is an inventory shortage at JLC for the 47K 9pin resistor array, this component
    you need to solder yourself ( 56K as a replacement is also fine)
    have fun

    This work for Sys1 as well? Also the 3.3 5pin is OOS as well, can you recommend a substitute?

    #720 10 days ago

    Ordered 5 Lisy1SMD and 5 Lisy80SMD. The sub on the 47k SIP-9 is available but anything resembling the 3.3k SIP-5 is not so I'll have to add those myself on the Lisy1.

    I have an unpopulated Lisy1 board I'm never going to get to. Anybody want it for the cost of shipping?

    I'll get you some pics of the 80SMD in action when they come in

    #721 10 days ago

    I'm about to ship out v 1.0 Bally 6 digit displays to a friend, and any last minute edits or bug fixes to work out before I send them on their way?

    Key pin is correct?

    Resistors are correct?

    Caps are correct?

    TIA!

    #722 10 days ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    Ordered 5 Lisy1SMD and 5 Lisy80SMD. The sub on the 47k SIP-9 is available but anything resembling the 3.3k SIP-5 is not so I'll have to add those myself on the Lisy1.
    I have an unpopulated Lisy1 board I'm never going to get to. Anybody want it for the cost of shipping?
    I'll get you some pics of the 80SMD in action when they come in

    If you don’t get anyone else with a pressing need I could use it. Have a friend with a completely roaches set of boards and could use it to build him an MPU.

    #723 10 days ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    If you don’t get anyone else with a pressing need I could use it. Have a friend with a completely roaches set of boards and could use it to build him an MPU.

    It's yours. PM me address and I'll get you a shipping quote

    #724 9 days ago

    Not sure which board it is an issue for but I assume the S80SMD:

    As shown below, seems the packages of the parts ( C11-C18) cannot match the corresponding holes on the PCB board, the lead space is 2.54mm, while the distance between holes is 5.2mm on the PCB, so we are unable to assemble them.

    This is for the 100nf Cap

    bontango PM me an address and I'll forward you the email

    I paid for the parts so as long as the ship them with the boards I will form the leads and make them work

    #725 9 days ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    PM me an address and I'll forward you the email

    please send the mail to my contact address on lisy.dev https://lisy.dev/contact.html

    The issue should pop up with both boards ( LISY1SMD & LISY80SMD) as PCB & BOM are identical with these parts
    Placing them by forming the leads should be an easy task, but I will look for a 100nF with a 5.2 spacing at JLC or change the PCB.

    #726 9 days ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    This work for Sys1 as well? Also the 3.3 5pin is OOS as well, can you recommend a substitute?

    Yes, same for SYS1. The 3.3 are not critical, you can use up to 10K resistor here.
    In next HW release I will replace the arrays with a bunch of SMD resistors

    #727 9 days ago

    The only other issues found was they we unsure of the orientation of the dip switches on both boards. I'll forward you all the correspondence.

    I'm kind of shocked how quickly they are moving

    #728 7 days ago

    Edit: found clockscale in the manual I'll try that.

    Strange thing happening on Sinbad. When I start a game the tune plays at double speed. And the chimes don't ring.

    Any advice?

    #729 7 days ago
    Quoted from Cheddar:

    Strange thing happening on Sinbad. When I start a game the tune plays at double speed. And the chimes don't ring.

    So, after that when playing a game the chimes are OK?

    #730 7 days ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    So, after that when playing a game the chimes are OK?

    Interesting results. Reducing clock speed had made the chimes sound better. No adjustments have made the start game jingle slow down though.

    I'll try to get it on video

    UPDATE: I can dial the chime tone in pretty well with clockscale. Nothing I have done affects the start jingle. I even tried turning it off using the dip switches in LisyControl but it's still there.

    It would be cool if there were a way to update this file via LisyControl

    #731 4 days ago

    Q: I assembled 5 v1.0 6 digit displays, all work individually, but when more than three are connected, the game won't start. When all five are connected, displays flicker and game won't boot.

    I can be pretty certain that the connectors are good, both to the displays and to the MPU.

    Old plasma displays work, all five (one is gassing out, which is the reason for the replacement).

    It seems as though the game's not getting enough 5V to boot...? Could that be?

    #732 4 days ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    I assembled 5 v1.0 6 digit displays, all work individually, but when more than three are connected, the game won't start.

    There was a design error with v1.0, but the effect was more with ghosting.
    With v1.0 you need to replace one resistor, have a look at my post #394
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-lisy-a-replacement-mpu-for-gottlieb-bally-amp-stern/page/8#post-6152881

    pls. let me know if it helped

    #733 4 days ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    There was a design error with v1.0, but the effect was more with ghosting.
    With v1.0 you need to replace one resistor, have a look at my post #394
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diy-lisy-a-replacement-mpu-for-gottlieb-bally-amp-stern/page/8#post-6152881
    pls. let me know if it helped

    Ok thanks for the reply. I'll report back.

    #734 4 days ago

    One thing that may be different is the game (Bally Eight Ball) has a Nvram.Weebly MPU board. Otherwise the game is fully operational, just the problem with more than three 6 digit displays in it.

    #735 4 days ago

    I'm going to take a stab at building the GODI180 universal Gottlieb display. Anyone other than OP put one of these together.

    I'll have several extra boards if someone wants one

    #736 3 days ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    One thing that may be different is the game (Bally Eight Ball) has a Nvram.Weebly MPU board. Otherwise the game is fully operational, just the problem with more than three 6 digit displays in it.

    My guess is the 5v regulator is overloaded, I have seen it before with LED displays causing a non boot situation. The 5v drags down below the MPU reset monitor trip point (4.4 or 4.6v depending on mpu version). LEDs displays are adding more 5v load. There are a ton of bad voltage regulators out there in the grey market than can only handle about 1amp yet they mark them as a 3amp part. There is at least one replacement driver board using linear regulator and smallish heat sink that gets smoking hot in a normal operation with plasma displays, add the up to extra 210 LEDs and you might get to the thermal / overload shutdown point.

    See if your 5v lowers with every display you add. Keep in mind there are isolated ground returns... the orange 12v wire return that always burns, and just connectors in general (v drop across plugs).

    #737 3 days ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    My guess is the 5v regulator is overloaded, I have seen it before with LED displays causing a non boot situation. The 5v drags down below the MPU reset monitor trip point (4.4 or 4.6v depending on mpu version). LEDs displays are adding more 5v load. There are a ton of bad voltage regulators out there in the grey market than can only handle about 1amp yet they mark them as a 3amp part. There is at least one replacement driver board using linear regulator and smallish heat sink that gets smoking hot in a normal operation with plasma displays, add the up to extra 210 LEDs and you might get to the thermal / overload shutdown point.
    See if your 5v lowers with every display you add. Keep in mind there are isolated ground returns... the orange 12v wire return that always burns, and just connectors in general (v drop across plugs).

    One thing I didn't realize, and had the guy do, was to pull F2 on the rectifier board. Now he's running four displays but haven't heard back which display wasn't working, or try to rule out bad connectors to the displays. I did rebuild the SDB, full parts replacement including 5V regulator.

    I did redo all the connectors to all of the boards ...... drumroll please.... EXCEPT to the displays. Aaaaauuuuugggghhhhh!!!!

    So I'm not sure if that's it or not, but all five displays were working prior to LED swap.

    Will post back, and redo SDB if needed or get a replacement.

    #738 3 days ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    One thing I didn't realize, and had the guy do, was to pull F2 on the rectifier board. Now he's running four displays but haven't heard back which display wasn't working, or try to rule out bad connectors to the displays. I did rebuild the SDB, full parts replacement including 5V regulator.
    I did redo all the connectors to all of the boards ...... drumroll please.... EXCEPT to the displays. Aaaaauuuuugggghhhhh!!!!
    So I'm not sure if that's it or not, but all five displays were working prior to LED swap.
    Will post back, and redo SDB if needed or get a replacement.

    It is probably not the connector on the displays themselves, but the male pins solder joints are frequently cracked. The top right plug on the driver board and the 20 pin plug on the rectifier board most critical ones for the 5v.

    Where did you buy the regulator? Most on eBay, AliExpress and etc are fake. Pretty sure they take a 1a die from a weenie SOT23 part or something, put it in the TO3 metal can case and mark it as a 3a or 5a part (LM323K). The fakes will work fine in most games as a replacement MPU only pulls like 0.25a without other boards attached.

    a picture cactusjack posted comparing real vs fake.

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #739 3 days ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    It is probably not the connector on the displays themselves, but the male pins solder joints are frequently cracked. The top right plug on the driver board and the 20 pin plug on the rectifier board most critical ones for the 5v.
    Where did you buy the regulator? Most on eBay, AliExpress and etc are fake. Pretty sure they take a 1a die from a weenie SOT23 part or something, put it in the TO3 metal can case and mark it as a 3a or 5a part (LM323K). The fakes will work fine in most games as a replacement MPU only pulls like 0.25a without other boards attached.
    a picture cactusjack posted comparing real vs fake.[quoted image]

    I couldn't say for sure where I got the regulator, but can confirm with three LED boards, F2 on rectifier board removed, the game is perfectly playable.

    I did thoroughly replace all connectors in the backbox, and all connectors on all boards. Put key pins in all appropriate spots in connectors, new pins in all connectors (as well as housings). It's possible I screwed up a crimp but I didn't detect it when I was doing it.

    God, I hate repinning .100 connectors!

    The entire game was a salt water/air corroded mess. Took me a few months and totally undercharged for it, but came out well.

    Connecting the fourth LED display and game will not boot.

    I'm going to have the owner send me the SDB board back, crack that regulator open and post pics.

    Having the owner buy a new SDB (no hi-volt) from your site.

    Thanks for the help!

    Can confirm that v 1.0 6 digit display boards do work well and look good.

    #740 3 days ago
    Quoted from pb456:

    I couldn't say for sure where I got the regulator

    Post a picture of the regulator so we can see if it has the telltale counterfeit markings.

    #741 3 days ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Post a picture of the regulator so we can see if it has the telltale counterfeit markings.

    Owner is about 3 hours away from me, I'll ask him to send the board back to me and I'll cut it up and send pics.

    #742 3 days ago

    For now, this is all I have...

    IMG_1020 (resized).jpgPXL_20201110_011154627 (resized).jpg
    #743 3 days ago
    #744 3 days ago

    I vaguely remember that post. God I was embarassed

    But yeah, if I posted that then it had to be from the that source.

    I will be surprised if the part wasn't a fake.

    #745 3 days ago

    Needing a replacement sound board for a Buck Rogers and another for Counterforce.

    Anyone out there have Gosof sound boards for sale?

    TIA

    #746 1 day ago

    I did a quick check with LISY and the new "Pi Zero 2 W" https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-zero-2-w/
    It does NOT work with current (5.27-62) LISY image! Probably it only needs an kernel update.
    But as I don't think there is a big demand/need its not on the top of my list.

    There are 746 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 15.

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