(Topic ID: 253917)

DIY: 'LISY', a replacement MPU for Gottlieb, Bally & Stern


By bontango

1 year ago



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  • Latest reply 22 hours ago by bontango
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    My lisy35 bom.pdf (PDF preview)

    There are 417 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 9.
    14
    #1 1 year ago

    Hello,
    just wanted to draw your attention to my various 'LISY' replacement MPUs
    - LISY1 for Gottlieb System1
    - LISY80 for Gottlieb System80/80A/80B
    - LISY35 for 'old' Bally and Stern ( 1977-1985)
    You can run the original game rules by using pinmame romsets or create your own rules by using the Mission Pinball Framework
    More details you will find here: https://www.lisy.dev together with some of my other projects.

    Please note: I do provide LISY for free as a 'do it youself' (DIY) project!

    New for all latest Hardware Versions:
    - LISY PCBs are on 'aisler.net' for easy self ordering (https://aisler.net/help/getting-started/where-are-the-boards-made)
    - PICs on the PCB can be programmed with LISY, no programmer needed

    What's missing at the moment are 'shopping lists' for Digikey and/or Mouser, here I'm looking for your support.
    Would be great if 'someone' can provide these based on my shopping list for German supplier 'Reichelt', my BOM and the Digikey shopping list for some older LISY variants.

    Happy to answer your questions, enhancements requests, or just get your comments here in this thread or personally via e-mail.

    Wish you fun with LISY.

    #2 1 year ago

    Interesting, I'm assuming this is just like the Pascal all-in-one. Anyone on here running these boards?

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    Interesting, I'm assuming this is just like the Pascal all-in-one. Anyone on here running these boards?

    There are a few people on the board who have them, I'm thinking of buying a 3 pack of system 80 boards and giving it a go when things quiet down here.

    #4 1 year ago

    Might have to try one of these.

    #5 1 year ago

    I have a sys80 in my black hole and sys1 in my Genie and count down. Think the -35 is new?

    #6 1 year ago

    I’ve been running the 35 in one of my Harlem Globetrotters for a while. I’ve run it both ways. You can run the Pinmame ROM directly. That’s the easy way. However, you can also run it in MPF (Mission Pinball Framework). And that’s where the fun comes in.

    My overall project is to re-write Kings of Steel in MPF to be a good game. The right target will be removed and replaced with a drop target. And the LISY35 was the platform that could enable me to do that.

    bontango has been very helpful to me in trying to do this. Dare I say, he’s brilliant.

    My friend John was the one that showed this project to me first. For anyone that was at Pintastic in New England this year, his Charlie’s Angels was running a LISY1 there.

    Getting involved in this project is a blast. I will say, it does take a bit of skill to assemble the board. But if you have soldered a board before, you should be able to tackle it. And it’s really worth it, because having a board you assembled in your game is a pretty cool feeling.

    #7 1 year ago

    I saw comments about a Williams System 3-11 series LISY, would love a replacement for those.

    I've got a Pi3 model B sitting around unused, can the setup use that? Anyone try that yet? I saw in the assembly guide that it supports various models, sometimes with modification. Just curious what people have tried.

    Anyone have any pics/vids of the assembly process, testing, etc?

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Hello,
    What's missing at the moment are 'shopping lists' for Digikey and/or Mouser, here I'm looking for your support.
    Would be great if 'someone' can provide these based on my shopping list for German supplier 'Reichelt', my BOM and the Digikey shopping list for some older LISY variants.

    This would be awesome - anyone really good with this stuff willing to jump on this and provide the Mouser/Digikey shopping list? I would, but I know I'd screw it up somehow ha.

    #9 1 year ago

    Here is the LISY35 inside my HG.

    29FFB850-FDC7-4603-A08F-0D56CA522AE7 (resized).jpeg

    #10 1 year ago

    Anyone interested in doing a System 80 LMK, we can team up and give it a go.

    I like the idea that the System 80 board will work in ANY System 80 regardless of early, late, A or B. Just change out the image and your off.

    #11 1 year ago

    I've ordered the sys80+1 parts from digikey before (although both as one order). I can probably export the list if needed.

    #12 1 year ago

    The LISY is a good idea, but it needs to be packaged with everything you need: boards, parts, and roms. Without that, I'm out.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    The LISY is a good idea, but it needs to be packaged with everything you need: boards, parts, and roms. Without that, I'm out.

    Can't provide roms, copyright.

    Easy enough to find though.

    I'm serious about building a System 80 and willing to do a Mouser order list. I just spent 2-3 hours tracking down and ordering what I needed to do a System 80 battery board repair, this looks simple in comparison.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    .. but it needs to be packaged with everything you need: boards, parts, and roms.

    Not easy to package it all together as it consist of three totally different parts: PCB, components, Software
    Basically it can be done in five steps and I do provide links for each step on lisy.dev
    - order the PCBs at aisler
    - order the parts at digikey, mouser, reichelt, or another supplier
    - download & install the LISY image
    - install the roms ( Gottlieb only, Bally roms are part of the image)
    - putting it all together

    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I'm serious about building a System 80 and willing to do a Mouser order list.

    Once finished, would be great if you could provide the list to me to put it on lisy.dev
    In the LISY80 section, https://lisy.dev/lisy80.html there is already there is already a digikey list for HW Version 3.4 and
    links to 'Reichelt' shopping cards for latest HW 5.1

    #15 1 year ago

    Hi bontango +
    I once started this topic https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/add-ons-in-the-logic-of-pascal-janin-boards --- nobody joined. I wonder how complicated it is to use Your LISY1 on a Gottlieb Joker Poker SS - original ruleset BUT changing the "times five bonus multiplier" to "times two bonus multiplier" ? How about "implementing the EM-Rule-Set" ?
    On SS-Pins I am limited to "close to zero, nothing" --- all I ever did was pulling out the old, broken board - putting in a new Pascal Janin all-in-one-PI-1X4. Greetings Rolf

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    Hi bontango +
    I once started this topic https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/add-ons-in-the-logic-of-pascal-janin-boards --- nobody joined. I wonder how complicated it is to use Your LISY1 on a Gottlieb Joker Poker SS - original ruleset BUT changing the "times five bonus multiplier" to "times two bonus multiplier" ? How about "implementing the EM-Rule-Set" ?
    On SS-Pins I am limited to "close to zero, nothing" --- all I ever did was pulling out the old, broken board - putting in a new Pascal Janin all-in-one-PI-1X4. Greetings Rolf

    Changing any rules with the LISY is probably going to be the same as writing the rules again from scratch. (which is what Janin did anyway...)

    #17 1 year ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    I wonder how complicated it is to use Your LISY1 on a Gottlieb Joker Poker SS - original ruleset BUT changing the "times five bonus multiplier" to "times two bonus multiplier" ?

    https://www.flipprojets.fr/Downloads_EN.php

    Sample code from Cleopatra if you want to see what's involved with modifying System 1 code. Looks like it could be done if you are so inclined, the syntax looks really, really, simple. Likely the 5x code is going to be TEST [5X lamp], SCORE 1000, 5 (for the 10's, for instance). So you'd change the 5 to a 2 to get 2x bonus instead.

    Implementing the ruleset with non-resetting the drop banks like the EM does, looks like the solenoid command is SET S[olenoid #].
    You should be able to grab the Cleopatra personality rom, match it up with the code they posted, and then duplicate it for Joker Poker.

    #18 1 year ago
    Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

    I wonder how complicated it is to use Your LISY1 on a Gottlieb Joker Poker

    Hi Rolf,
    what you can do is to use LISY1 together with MPF Missdion Pinball Framework https://missionpinball.org/

    There are example configs in the LISY Image. A basic one for Charlies Angels and a more complex one for Solar ride.
    So it is not really 'from Scratch' as most of the routines will fit for Joker Poker too, but you need to program all the rules
    and cannot modify the original gameplay only.

    I put an example MPF config for Charlies Angels on my webside
    https://lisy.dev/lisy-and-mpf.html
    With that config you have already a basic Gameplay, so you see it is not 'that complicated'

    let me know if you need more

    #19 1 year ago

    To clarify my post, I was referring to the original prom in original boardset (and presumably, the rom put into a LISY board). Reverse engineering code isn't for everyone though. Sometimes it truly is easier to re-write the whole thing, especially with very simple ruleset games like all system 1's are.

    2 months later
    #20 1 year ago

    I'm about to start working on bringing back to life an Eight Ball Deluxe machine... and all its boards are dead! After reading this thread it seems that LISY is an awesome project... And it could definitely help me save my EBD, coupled to some Alltek solenoid/lamp boards...

    I have 3 questions:
    - if I use a pHat soundcard, can it play the ROM sound output generated by pinmame ? Or am I forced to provide sound files ?
    - on the LISY35 status page, EBD is "yellow" and the comment is "beim Booten werden die vom Aux Lamp driver Board"... can you explain a bit more ?
    - does anyone have an extra LISY35 PCB for sale ?

    Thanks!

    #21 1 year ago

    Hi Mat,
    sorry for the late answer, but as pinside does not send notifications for new posts ....
    To your questions:

    - LISY uses the 'UNIX' version of pinmame which has very poor sound support, I never got a good soundoutput from pinmame
    For this reason if you are using the PHAT Soundboard you need to use your own wav-files.
    One option could be to use both, the original soundcard AND the PHAT soundcard.
    For this however you need to spend an extra loudspeaker for the PHAT soundcard.
    With a configfile you can decide which sound will be played by PHAT and which will be played by the original soundcard.

    - the status page is somewhat outdated. With the latest Hard & Software ALL Bally games should work. At least I got
    no messages that there is a Bally game which do not work with LISY35. I did update www.lisy.dev accordantly.
    If LISY does not 100% work with your EBD, let me know. We will get it working together

    - I have blank LISY35 PCB available, but shipping from Germany to US is not cheap, so ordering with Aisler may be the best choice for you

    wish you success with your restauration project
    Ralf

    3 months later
    #22 9 months ago

    Few months later.... finally joining the lisy club!
    I got my digikey order and I'm starting to solder resistors tonight

    IMG_20200508_225001 (resized).jpg
    #23 9 months ago

    First noob mistake.............. I ordered the wrong I2C repeater chip (PCA 9517). Its packaging is to small.... TSSOP instead of SOIC...

    #24 9 months ago

    Just one component missing and I'm done

    IMG_20200513_222636 (resized).jpg
    #25 9 months ago

    I finally finished the board this week-end... And it works! (on the bench). All PICs got programmed with no issue. And the lisycontrol web server is working... To be continued!

    4 weeks later
    #26 8 months ago

    Another LISY35 up and running on the workbench pinball rig!

    IMG_20200617_115205 (resized).jpg
    #27 8 months ago
    Quoted from nettek:

    Another LISY35 up and running on the workbench pinball rig!
    [quoted image]

    Nice! And I see you have all the accessories for a proper bench test! On my side I have to finish working on my Eight Ball Deluxe cabinet which was in a pretty bad shape before I can fully test the board... And progress is a bit slow these days!

    1 month later
    #28 7 months ago

    Never been that close to have LISY35 controlling my EBD pinball...
    IMG_20200721_152759 (resized).jpg
    But as you can see I still miss a couple of pieces

    #29 7 months ago

    Has anyone here done the Bally35 with optional sound? I'm thinking of revamping a Bally Star Trek with up to date music and sound effects and might explore this route.

    #30 7 months ago

    I may go that route at some point, as my S&T soundboard does not work. I plan first to see if I can work with the sound output from pinmame.

    #31 7 months ago

    Where is the link to order bare boards? Not sure what I am missing but I followed the link from lisy.dev then clicked on the CPU type for SYS80 and it takes me to https://aisler.net/bontango/lisy-mpu/lisy80-6-0-3 but there's nothing to click on to order one?

    #32 7 months ago

    Anyone have a spare Lisy1 pcb they want to sell? I don't need 3 at the moment but would love to try one in my Totem.

    #33 7 months ago

    Progress........

    IMG_20200723_213726 (resized).jpg
    #34 7 months ago
    Quoted from Spybryon:

    Where is the link to order bare boards?

    looks like aisler has some problems on their website, I will write to them and ask

    However as Aisler has recently tripled the price for LISY PCBs, with my latest LISY version I also do
    provide Gerber Data on my website www.lisy.dev, so you can order at the PCB shop of your choice.

    Checkout for example https://jlcpcb.com/

    hope that helps
    Ralf

    #35 7 months ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    looks like aisler has some problems on their website, I will write to them and ask
    However as Aisler has recently tripled the price for LISY PCBs, with my latest LISY version I also do
    provide Gerber Data on my website www.lisy.dev, so you can order at the PCB shop of your choice.
    Checkout for example https://jlcpcb.com/
    hope that helps
    Ralf

    Thanks for uploading the Gerber files. Do these specs look good? I am going to try an order through JLCPCB.

    Capture (resized).JPGCapture2 (resized).JPG
    #36 7 months ago

    I'm in for a BALLY 35 if someone is ordering.

    1 week later
    #37 7 months ago
    Quoted from lint:

    Do these specs look good?

    as far as I can see looks good.
    As said, just go with the defaults and you are fine ...

    #38 7 months ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    as far as I can see looks good.
    As said, just go with the defaults and you are fine ...

    Thanks. I'll have 5 LISY System 1 boards soon if anyone needs one.

    #39 6 months ago

    Just received 5 LISY1 Boards. I'll document the build as I go.

    IMG_20200807_194710 (resized).jpgIMG_20200807_194724 (resized).jpg
    #40 6 months ago

    Does this board use any surface mount components?

    #41 6 months ago
    Quoted from lint:

    I'll document the build as I go.
    [quoted image][quoted image]

    Please do, this thread is too quiet

    #42 6 months ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    Does this board use any surface mount components?

    Lisy1 doesn't with the latest version. all through-hole. looks very simple.

    #43 6 months ago

    Could someone please walk me through or describe the basics of ordering Bally-35 MPU PCB's through JLCPCB?

    #44 6 months ago
    Quoted from Pinballer73:

    Could someone please walk me through or describe the basics of ordering Bally-35 MPU PCB's through JLCPCB?

    Go to https://jlcpcb.com/ and scroll down, there is a video running on their website "Ordering PCBs at JLCPCB is Easy" which basically explains it.

    In summary:
    Goto 'Quote Now' and upload the Gerber Data from lisy.dev
    Take the Gerber Data (ZIP-File) from https://lisy.dev/lisy35.html
    ( direct link for latest Version 1.6 : https://lisy.dev/media/files/lisy35_1_6_0_final-01.zip )
    For the PCB options you can go with the preselected default values (you have to order 5 PCB in minimum)

    There is also a LISY35 version with preassembled SMD parts available https://lisy.dev/lisy35-smd.html
    For ordering that at JLC you also need the BOM and PCL files from my site

    hope that helps

    #45 6 months ago

    More progress on my EBD revival project...
    I managed to troubleshoot all the non working lights thanks to the web server of LISY35.
    Now my EBD playfield is fully lighted up!
    IMG_20200809_221913 (resized).jpg

    By the way I replaced the switched bulbs with LEDs, and they don't seem to flicker... usually with these 80's bally lamp boards, you have to add 470 ohm resistors in parallel to prevent flickering... Would that mean LISY is using a different way to turn on/off the lamps, which would mean I won't have to add resistors ? (I tested only using the LISY test mode for now, not in game mode)

    #46 6 months ago
    Quoted from matiou:

    By the way I replaced the switched bulbs with LEDs, and they don't seem to flicker... usually with these 80's bally lamp boards, you have to add 470 ohm resistors in parallel to prevent flickering... Would that mean LISY is using a different way to turn on/off the lamps, which would mean I won't have to add resistors ? (I tested only using the LISY test mode for now, not in game mode)

    It depends on where in the zero crossing cycle they are refreshing the bulbs' status.

    #47 6 months ago
    Quoted from matiou:

    usually with these 80's bally lamp boards, you have to add 470 ohm resistors in parallel to prevent flickering...

    Interisting finding, I was not aware of that.
    In fact for LISY35 the 'Solenoid PIC' is doing the refresh independent of the original Bally rom routine 'in the backround'
    The PIC use the zero cross signal for a interrupt routine where the refresh is made. So if the bulbs are not flickering
    in test mode, I'm pretty sure that they will not flickering in game mode too.

    #48 6 months ago

    Found the reason why LED bulb do not flicker with LISY35
    LISY35 does start a bit later the refresh cycle compared to Bally MPU, so when the Thyristor of the lampdriverboard is activated
    there is already enough voltage and therefor enough load that the thyristor keeps active even with a LED.
    (the reason for this resistros is just to raise the load for Thyristor)

    However as LISY35 has a much faster refresh cycle, it finish the cyle at almost the same tine as Bally do.
    See screenshots of my logic analyzer below ...

    LISY an dBally; Zerocross compared (resized).png
    #49 6 months ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    Found the reason why LED bulb do not flicker with LISY35...

    Thanks for the details! Makes sense.

    And good news for me... no need to spend few nights soldering resistors on 70 old bulb sockets (I could also have bought the special resistor adapter boards they sell, but I'm glad I did not)

    #50 6 months ago

    Quick update... I tested, lamps, switches, solenoids... Everything works well from LISY Control. Now starting to play with the sound. I added a Hifiberry on my LISY35 board. I can confirm the "pinmame sound" mode does not work well (as expected, because of pinmame linux issues). So I will use the internal sample mode. I started to record the EBD sounds using pinmame on Windows... Will keep you posted.

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