(Topic ID: 67366)

DMD Extender Discussion (ColorDMD Alternative)

By Crash

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 7 years ago by PohodaVole
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#4 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

About $260, including a $7 micro USB 5v power supply and $2 heatsinks for the Raspberry. Considering this setup has a much longer life than a plasma DMD, doesn't use problematic high voltage parts, and is just over half the cost of a ColorDMD, it's a very feasible price.

Good luck! Glad I could help.

As an outspoken supporter of the DMDExtender product, I don't think it's necessarily appropriate to refer to it as a "Poor Man's ColorDMD" which implies it's not as good... It has a lot of flexibility that ColorDMD doesn't offer such as the ability to choose 4 custom colors for each shade of the dots from the original DMD and the ability to add in additional displays.

1 week later
#15 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

AC adapter for the Pi:

Not sure you'd need that. You should be able to get power from the game itself once the DMDExtender is plugged in.

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Because there's a CCFL or two in there and the protective glass is supposedly thin. Something about hazmats..?

Think it's LEDs, not CCFLs...

#19 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Well mainly the adapter is because of the micro USB connector.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, nothing has to be plugged into the micro usb port on the RPi once the DMDExtender is plugged into it and powered. The RPi gets its power from the DMDExtender, which should come with an adapter cable to plug into the game's power.

#49 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I was planning on getting this together and done Monday but we've hit a snag as we don't have a 12v adapter powerful enough to supply the controller board. Those are coming from China, I doubt they will arrive next week...

Amazon has them for cheap: http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Power-Supply-LCD-Monitor/dp/B003TUMDWG/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1

#80 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

With the cheaper controller board it can probably be done for less ($250). We're at about $260-$270 in with this one. And the best part is it's running off a "dead" DMD driver board. Dead as in the high voltage section is so badly fried that it's impossible to rebuild. But the kicker here is the low voltage logic circuit is still in tact and working. It's completely seperate from the HV circuit.
Use my exact color codes with the same display set to 30% brightness, 100% contrast, and 50% saturation and you'll get the same results.

What's the cheaper board you found?

#88 10 years ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

It also appears that there are no screens available for as cheap ad you got yours so the price for the mod may go up a little

It looks like there are a number of listings for used displays in the same price range. I think since the ones Crash and I ordered were "Grade B" maybe they were listed at a used price. You can also opt for a lower resolution display at the same size, though I hear that those may have worse viewing angles.

#90 10 years ago
Quoted from mameman:

Really cool stuff, about to order an extender now for my dr who to try this out, will simply pair it with the 15.6" led screens I have been using for the DMd screens on the virtual pins.
Total cost should come in at around $200

I recall reading that there might be a reason an LCD can't go in Doctor Who. Maybe it can't fit.

#95 10 years ago
Quoted from goldpins:

Great topic......
I can buy an LCD screen at a local store that is 1366x768 resolution (LP156WH4-TLN2). Has anyone tried an LCD with this resolution (versus 1920x1080)? Opinions if the resolution is good enough for this application?

Resolution would be fine as long as the size is right, but I think the lower resolution ones might have worse viewing angles.

#110 10 years ago

Not sure on settings, but for that particular board I installed a fan since all the chips seemed to get quite hot.

#112 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Well the regulator is running at about 70C IIRC which is well within limits of the component spec correct? Also since this board is configured specifically to work with this type of display it would make more sense that that is the screen voltage, not the input voltage.
Also, for documentation's sake I listed the exact name of the panel and controller I used in the original post.

You might ask njytouch support, though I haven't found them to be very helpful. I was noticing some red artifacts being generated after it was powered on for about a half hour. I was assuming it was heat related but their support suggests not having the controller board near other electronics... well that's not going to happen in this application.

#115 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

D'oh, another display died today. Looks like White Water is next, Sega kit still on the back burner.

If you haven't ordered another yet, in my JP display thread I linked to a US seller with a smaller controller board comparably priced to the one from njytouch. I'd share the link here, but I'm on my phone. I haven't done much in the way of stress testing, but got it and the RPi installed next to the DMD controller board on the back of the LCD. Kind of all packed in, but they all fit.

#117 10 years ago

Here it is: ebay.com link: HDMI VGA AV Audio Lcd controller Board with USB Port for MP3 JPEG file Remote

He's a good seller. The first board I got from him had color issues. I didn't actually install it until like a month after I got it, and when I discovered the issue I was out of the warranty period listed on eBay, but he gave suggestions on troubleshooting and let me exchange it. Needless to say it was nice dealing with someone in the US when working on an exchange.

The same seller has another controller (ebay.com link: HDMI VGA 2AV LCD Controller Board for Lots of LCD panels
) with a slightly smaller footprint, but that's the one that had color problems when I used it with my display, and I opted for the board in the first link as a replacement rather than trying the same one again. The problem may have just been a defect in the board, and a replacement might have worked fine.

#121 10 years ago
Quoted from mameman:

Dr who update, parts are in, fired up and looks to be running well. Just cnc cutting a new speaker board ( could not be asked to deal with Dmd screws, plus I upgraded the speakers). Pick to come.

Sounds awesome! I'd imagine some variations of TARDIS blue would look good for a color scheme.

#122 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Uugh. Seriously?? When it rains it pours.

Is that a different one? At least you've got the method down.

#128 10 years ago
Quoted from Dmod:

If the goal is a functional replacement on a budget, why not just pick up a used plasma for under $150?
We produced quite a supply of these over the past 18 months.
Although we've focused on fully assembled plug-and-play solutions, we could produce a reduced-cost ColorDMD multicolor or single-color kit in the future. We're interested in hearing feedback from others.
Anyone with an interest in this, please PM me or send an email to [email protected].

What's this? Seeing what competition offers and trying to match it? People got seriously upset with me in my thread where I suggested that competion, specifically around DMD LCD replacement (and colorization for that matter) would be a good thing...

3 months later
#156 10 years ago
Quoted from steveoc:

Will this work with a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles which is 128x16 ??

Not currently. If it gets to the point of working, and I hope it does, it will require some hardware hacks to the existing driver board to get a workable output from it to the DMD Extender. I've contacted Dr Pinball about it and it will also require significant code updates to accommodate for the smaller display.

1 month later
#204 9 years ago
Quoted from Tekman:

I understand that, I'm looking for a US supplier.

There isn't one, as far as I know. You need to go straight to the source. It doesn't take too long to come.

#212 9 years ago
Quoted from DoctorPinball:

DMD Extender uses its own kernel image so there's no need to boot into Linux first - it really does start instantly (apart from a quick display of a splash screen).

I think my LCD controller is a bit slow to pick up a signal. I doesn't pick up a video signal until after the DMD Extender splash screen. I'm not bothered by it, though.

#228 9 years ago

I don't have it off hand, but there's a link to a seller in the US in my JP DMD Extender thread with some controller boards that are competitively priced with the sellers from China.

1 month later
#250 9 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

I want to do this right now, but can't get any of the links to any of the FRIGGIN CONTROLLERS to load! Can someone post an actual part number instead of an ebay link?! I'm begging..I wlll grovel! =P
Would be for either of these screens, don't know if the numbers on the end have any significance to us:
LP156WF1-TLF3
LP156WF1(TL)(C1)
*edit* Also hoping to find one NOT in Hong Kong...I hate waiting 3 weeks for shipping..

Quoted from winteriscoming:

I don't have it off hand, but there's a link to a seller in the US in my JP DMD Extender thread with some controller boards that are competitively priced with the sellers from China.

#252 9 years ago

Ok, I found the link in my other thread: http://kenode.com/

This is a US seller. I never bought from his website, only eBay, but he is a good seller. I recommend contacting him to see if the controller he sells will work with your display. The controller actually has to be programmed accordingly.

2 months later
#292 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I'd to see more insight into peoples' approach with the Whitestar games. I don't think those have officially been discussed yet.

At some point I'll add one to my Starship Troopers, so if no one does a Sega Showcase game before then, I'll make sure to post my method.

2 weeks later
#304 9 years ago

I happened to take a look at my SST today. It'll take some work to get an LCD in a Sega Showcase head. There's a shelf of wood above where the DMD is that will have to be routed out. On top of that, the brackets that the DMD screws into is kind of in the way of where the LCD will need to be. I'm thinking the mod won't be easily reversible.

#307 9 years ago
Quoted from Pondwater:

Had the same issues with lw3. The only solution I could get to work was to mount the LCD to the backbox behind the translight. Not pretty but works. The mounts for the original DMD would have gone through the lcd.

Is LW3 different than JP? I found JP to be super easy. Just a small lip of plastic had to be removed from the speaker panel and the LCD is held in by the original DMD bracket. SST is going to be way more complicated than that.

#309 9 years ago
Quoted from Pondwater:

Not sure but looks similar. Does it have a slight curve too it? Not sure if I bought the wrong LCD but it just barely fits between the two speakers and I can't use the original bracket or mounts.

It sounds like you maybe got an LCD that was wider than needed. A 15.6" should be just about the exact width of a standard DMD. The speaker panel may have a slight curve up front, but the lip I removed was from the back, just behind the chanel where the translite sits. The LCD sits a little further back than the original DMD, but it's not bad.

Here's a pic of my JP setup. See how the LCD sits in between the mounting screws?
https://forum-s3.pinside.com/201309/1102236/131838.jpg

By comparison, a Sega Showcase head has an extreme curve. Even an LCD of the size I mention is going to be a challenge.

1 week later
#330 9 years ago
Quoted from 2Kaulitz:

Wanted to give shout out to Andy at the http://kenode.com/ for awesome deal on led screen plus controller. I have everything i need so far expect the dmd extender and that been ordered

Awesome that he's supplying screens, too. What kind of screen did you get? I don't see any combo kits on the site with a correctly sized screen.

4 months later
#444 9 years ago
Quoted from JeffF:

Just curious if anyone has done a SEGA Showcase cabinet yet? If so, I'd love some pictures.
I just started looking at our X-files and there's a bit of work involved since you have to modify one of the plywood supports that is right above the DMD. Seems like the door will have to be removed from the cabinet and all the components off the door before you can modify the support.
Before I get to that point though I want to make sure I can get the X-files working with the DMDExtender and get an awesome color palette.

One of these days I'll get around to doing it for SST, but so far I haven't seen any examples in a showcase cabinet. It will be more work than most any other pin as far as I can tell. I suppose you could mount the LCD much further back along the back edge of the shelf that's over the existing DMD, but I think ideally that shelf is going to have to be heavily modified to fit the LCD in at the same approximate depth of a standard DMD.

It might be possible to cut a slot that's wide enough for the LCD to slide down into, and that's probably the route I'll plan to go with.

1 month later
#491 9 years ago
Quoted from JeffF:

The pictures didn't capture the colors correctly but they are close.
dscf4428.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
dscf4420.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
dscf4426.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
dscf4429.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
dscf4434.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
And here's some pictures of the install...
dscf4403.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
dscf4405.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
dscf4408.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
dscf4411.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
dscf4413.jpg (Click image to enlarge)
All the work was well, well worth it. No matter what "some" people say about X-files...
dscf4389.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Awesome! Thanks for the being the first (that I've seen) to try it! I'll be doing just that for Starship Troopers at some point. The same color scheme would probably look good in SST.

I can imagine that removing the front would be the way to go since you'd get sawdust all over the game otherwise. What did you cut yours with? I've got a small trim router I might try.

I don't know how much experimenting you've done with the colors, but I found in JP that putting in some different colors for the 4 shades can make some awesome effects. I've got it going from dark red to red to yellow to white. The pics of the X-files translite makes it look like there is some purple in it. The dots might look good with a dark purple as the dark color and then lead into blue.

In the event that you wanted to revert back to a standard DMD, do you think you'd be able to?

#496 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I have settled on my colors for Baywatch. I used Chrisbee's first palette and tweaked the orange just a bit to include a little more pink to better resemble a sunset. This to me also improves skin tones. I freaking love it!!

Is it bad that low res pixelated women in bikinis makes want to get a Baywatch pin?

#500 9 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

The woman on the far left is clearly naked.

Your post is NSFW!

4 months later
#578 8 years ago
Quoted from onceler:

Is it possible to wire this up to turn on/off with the machine via the cabinet's switch?

That's how mine is with JP. JP has a connector that hot and neutral go through. I cut the cord for the power supply and forced the respective wires down into the connector with the game's wires and zip tied them in place. It's not as elegantly done as it could have been, but works.

2 months later
#589 8 years ago
Quoted from TrainH2o:

I assume there is no alternative to the DMD Extender board.
I've been wanting to do this on my TZ, but have put it off.

SmartDMD is an alternative. There are directions available for SmartDMD on wiring up your own adapter. It's just a few wires and resistors as far as I can tell.

Both solutions utilize a Raspberry Pi and LCD Controller + LCD, so the only difference is the software and adapter. SmartDMD can work with the DMDExtender adapter, too.

#591 8 years ago
Quoted from pin-tastic:

Honestly I think this thread should be locked kind of pointless to keep open since its very obvious since the guy is MIA with no intent of ever making these boards again, time to move on and come up with another alternative and turn it over to someone else that will not leave us all in limbo for months and months. SmartDMD looks promising, now just need someone to do some experimenting to see how well it works with Bally Williams machines and do an extensive write up like Crash did with the DMD Extender.

Give the guy a break.

I have a pinball mod that I manufacture and sell basically when I feel like it. I'm sure those who want it are frustrated with me by my incredibly slow production times, but it's my free time that I have to devote to it, so it doesn't get priority that often.

If Dr Pinball doesn't feel like working on DMD Extender for a while or, heaven forbid, he has a personal matter going on in his life that he cares more about than a hobby side business, I don't think he owes anyone here any explanation.

Until he says directly that he's finished with the product, I don't see the harm in discussing the product in this thread.

As far as the SmartDMD option goes, I think there are other threads out there for it, but most of the hardware setup would be same as what Crash has posted.

#595 8 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

This is news to me, where did you find that SmartDMD will work with the DMDExtender adaptor? I currently have the DMDExtender which works great but I'm worried about support in the future if my SD card ever gets corrupt. If I can't contact David to get a new key for a new SD card then the entire kit will not work and is worthless. I'd like an alternative software solution if that ever happens.

I think I might have been the one who put the creators of the two in touch with each other.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/smartdmd-dmd-interface-with-colors-upscaling-network-and-more#post-1288711

However, unless something has changed, I'm not sure if SmartDMD is compatible with large Sega displays at this point.

#598 8 years ago
Quoted from hd60609:

I was worried about that as well. I created a "New" folder on my desktop and copied the entire contents of the SD card into that "New" folder as a back up. I should be able to put those entire contents on a new SD card and that new SD card should work in the system. I just haven't tried it yet.

I don't think it's as simple as that. I don't think the section of the card that contains the bootable OS would get copied that way and there may be some security measures in place that keep you locked into the one SD card to prevent piracy and DIY adapters.

#603 8 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

You have to buy his adapter so what does he have to lose by opening it up?

As it is, it's just making a bunch of connections that could feasibly be done on your own with wires and resistors. Unless he built some kind of identification chip into the adapter that could communicate with the RPi to allow the software to run, I don't see how David would be able to restrict the software to just his hardware.

#606 8 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

AFAIK the chip on that board is a "buffer IC" used to convert the signal into something the Pi can use.

Right. I'm not saying there is an identification chip or anything, but lacking anything like that, I don't see how David's software is hardware dependent.

I'm not saying I like the DRM, but don't see how David has an alternative. Maybe there's something possible that's not SD card dependent? But how would that keep you from copying the card and duplicating the setup elsewhere? If it's RPi dependent, that might be better, but you're screwed if the RPi breaks.

If he released the software for free, he could essentially say goodbye to revenue because DIYers could just make their own adaptors. Let's face it, it's a tinkerers mod to begin with. Definitely not as turn key as ColorDMD, so many of the people drawn to DMD Extender for the flexibility/price are also those who would be capable of making their own adaptors.

Of course, as greedy consumer and tinkerer, I'd love to see a free open-source solution where the software is free and the hardware is DIY. I'm just not up to the task of developing something like that myself, and I understand that people who do develop that kind of thing want credit and compensation.

#634 8 years ago

Interesting alternative developing here. Let's hope he's willing/able to implement custom palettes.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rgb-led-panels-for-dmd-replacement#post-2727181

#636 8 years ago
Quoted from PhilGreg:

Whaaaaaat!
Thanks for the tip, looks great!

I doubt it will be a viable solution for large Sega DMDs, though. I don't know if there are RGB panels in appropriate size/resolution.

3 months later
#666 8 years ago
Quoted from bridgeman:

My question is, if something goes bad on the SD is there a way to get it fixed? Is the software on the card downloadable or do you have to get from Doc? Just trying to find out before I end up with a display that doesn't display. Any help or advice would be appreciated.

AFAIK the software is tied to the SD cards and there's not a DIY fix without Dr Pinball's help. Maybe Crash has experience with this?

4 months later
#710 7 years ago
Quoted from bigbadmiker:

Has anyone used a DMD extender on an Independence Day? If so, can you please share the color palette you used?
If not, I'm looking for color suggestions.
Looks like I will need to modify the speaker panel slightly to make the LCD fit, but can be done.

You might consider one of the RGB LED panel solutions, instead. They come in at the same footprint as a standard DMD and won't require modifying the speaker panel. Someone earlier in this thread shows an LCD in X-Files, but there's no way I'm altering my Starship Troopers now that the RGB panels are available, and I'm an advocate for DMD Extender.

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