I think the question is.... How do I become a distributer?

Inflate the price to make a nice profit AND pay for the one you keep for yourself.

I just got into this. Lucked out finding my first machine no problem.

Wanting a second one now.... I wish I never started. The prices are outrageous, but I came in knowing that paying ~8k for a LZ Pre. 12.5 for a LE and more, especially a used.... Like, okay?

But most outrageous is the inability to just buy one. Beyond the price, I'm more deterred by the simple fact I can't just go pick up a machine or order one to arrive within a week.

That is unbelievable. I feel by the time I can get a machine I either want or willing to settle for I'll be over this.

If the day comes when I have no choice, but to pay a markup on a Premium or LE I won’t buy it.
I think dealers who do this are somewhat shortsighted, but coin op is home to a lot of sleaze and stupidity, but also some pretty terrific folks as well.

Supply and demand! Consider yourself fortunate if your biggest problem is not being able to buy a pin, right now!!

I'm not leaving, but feeling frustrated (I've been collecting since 2004). Now that Stern has increased their LE's to 1000, they aren't producing as many Premium's. So, LE's sell out quickly and the Premium run is so small that my distributors are unable to get me a Premium in a timely manner. This has never happened to me. I paid 7k for a NIB JP2 Premium and now *if I'm lucky*, I will pay 9k for a NIB Rush Premium. At the moment, it's even tough to locate one!

Bottom line: If scarcity and greed take over, I'll just play what I have and be happy. Eventually, local collectors will buy/sell titles that interest me. Just picked up a GNR LE from a local collector for much less than NIB. If distributors end up marking up NIB, it's yet another reason to avoid NIB. Patience will dominate my thinking. F FOMO

Buy older pins locally. Tons of great pins in the $2500-$5k range. NiB pins are mostly overrated and overpriced.

Oh, it is definitely bad for the industry overall. But the simple solution is to just not buy new machines. For some reason a lot of people have a lot of trouble with that.

Oh conversely, they don't have a lot of trouble with it; 10K isn't the same to everyone.
If I had that much disposable I probably wouldn't care either.

Sure, but those people aren't the ones complaining.

Agreed. I can have much fun with a fast shooting em or classic Bally/Stern. Drink a bruski and play pinball .

Are you kidding, how can I measure my Johnson against used junk? "Only the best..."

I'm glad the market is exploding. This round of silly money is going to flood the used market in about 10 years when most of these buyers are going to be stuffed into nursing homes and their shit is liquidated by their ungrateful kids and trophy wives who are waiting for the first sign of mental instability so they can take over their accounts. It will be GLORIOUS. This is really just a last hurrah for the ultimate BOOMER toys. Bring it on!

I have yet to buy a NIB pin more fun than Whirlwind or Taxi or BSD or TFTC. And if those are too old for you there's Spiderman, Iron Man, Xmen, Ripley's, etc. None of these have gone to the moon price-wise. And if you must buy NIB Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels are bargains compared to the other brands. $7k for bare bones Stern Pros and $11k for LEs is a ripoff IMO.

I have a problem buying used. Used anything bothers me. For something out of production though I am fine.

However, every used pinball I want is basically the same price as New. Bigger issue is the fact used pinballs are scattered across all over.

I would only feel comfortable seeing it in person.

With work and then the crazy weather in some parts, I dont have time to drive hours or days to take a look at a potential buy.

Hardly anything available in my area.

Sounds like the perspective of someone new to pinball. So many HUO games born in the last decade are dialed-in and improved by their loving owners. Most of the 50+ games I've purchased "used" over the years were better than NIB. To make matters worse, NIB games built in the last 5-10 years are being built by very low skilled labor as the demand has picked up. Games are being shipped NIB with significant flaws. For example, I purchased a NIB Rick and Morty and it took me 2 months to fully dial-in (and I'm pretty experienced). For someone with a full-time job that's new to pinball never opened the hood, a NIB game can be a real burden. Food for thought.

When it comes to cars, I never buy "used", since most car owners haven't improved the product.

Great post.

You live in a suburb of Atlanta - where they have a national level Southern Fried Gaming expo every year... Plenty of pins in GA and the Carolinas.

The fact people will buy NIB without even playing a game says what you need to know... its more than just 'none around me'. People think 'new' is better, more valuable, and can't be bothered to 'work on games'.

For those who love a 'cargument'

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ford-gm-warn-dealers-charge-above-sticker-price-and-face-repercussions-11644323580?mod=hp_lista_pos1

Neither have most pin owners. Screwing on tacky toys and powder coats isn't an improvement.

This thread should be re-titled to "Distributors charging over MSRP, idiots with FOMO still buying".

Agreed. I don't blame anyone for not leaving money on the table. Blame the buyers.

Couldn't agree more...I'm not talking about toys/armor! Apparently you missed the first paragraph of my post or don't understand it (which is fine).

What I'm referring to is "dialing in" a game, since most NIB games play mediocre (or awful) out-of-the-gate. Recent examples from my collection are IMDN Premium and Rick and Morty. Both excellent games, but required tons of tweaks to work optimally.

It's the last hurrah of boomers cashing out home equity. There will be a glut of pinball machines when their families start putting them away in nursing homes. It's almost like people forget the cyclical nature of economics. I'm glad they are cranking them out. I think I'm young enough to capitalize on the crash.

I seriously doubt this. I have bought, sold, and traded about 30 pins in the past 4 years. The vast majority of folks buying pins are 35-52. In fact, I cannot think of a single person over the age of 60 who has bought a pin from me. The exception to that was people looking at the one EM I owned and took to a pinball show.

The folks who are buying pins are overwhelmingly middle age professionals.

It’s almost as if sad sack lives in a prepper bunker and rarely if ever interacts with the outside world.

You're right. Everyone I've dealt with has been around 40 or so. Prime earning years.

Might be true for EMs but definitely not modern dmd or newer from what I've seen

I am smack dab in the middle of this age group. I am this person. And while I'm probably a little odd for the group by being on pinside, here's my perspective:

I'm new into owning pinballs, but always have been into playing them. I've came close to buying a pinball machine a few times, but now I have an EM, and while I love it now, truth be told, it was given to me and I probably would have never bought an EM otherwise. I have room in my home for MAYBE another pin or two (city town house) and kinda want a new pinball machine this time to even things out.

Paying a bit of a markup is less of a big deal for me. Sure, I don't want to pay more than I have to, but since I'm not planning on flipping it or buying more, when I'm ready to pull the trigger, if I don't see anything on the market place, I can see myself just putting myself into a waiting list and eating the 10-20% over msrp.

When there's a lot of people like me in the market (like right now), looking to only own a machine or two, the prices go up. When the sale of new machines are mostly supported by collectors, who buy a lot and so are trying to maximize their savings, then the prices drop. That's just how it goes.

Awwww.. crap. I'll be 52 this year. Statistically, I'm on my way out. It's been fun while it lasted.

OR, we’ll retire, put our games on location (or open new locations), and get another new 100 people hooked on pinball.

The nursing home reference is offensive and wrong. My parents are both in their 80’s, and are both living very independent lives. It would be more accurate to say that some of us will downsize our collections when we retire.

Getting back on topic, I do miss the days of ordering a new pin for $500 under MSRP. Good times those were.

Are these prices supported by home use?

I don’t know about other people’s finances but the only reason why I can buy a NIB pinball machine for $10k is that my employer includes equity and profit sharing in the pay package and that has resulted in yearly windfalls of disposable cash (which lately gets allocated more to property taxes as these are through the roof).

Anyways, I assume my corporate employer isn’t the only one doing this so there are probably hundred of thousands of middle aged white collar people who can blow that cash on a toy.

However, the moment this spigot runs dry, which it somehow hasn’t the last 8 years, I would certainly not blow $10k or to stay on topic, more than MSRP on a pinball machine.

So let’s see what happens with this market when the long stretch of easy money for corporate employees like me is over.

It's almost as if Crazy Levi lives in a rat infested bee hive with schizophrenic hypocondriacs constantly coughing COVID in his face from all directions. Have you ever watched a Seinfeld episode with the laugh track removed? I wouldn't be the one criticizing lifestyle choices. There's a reason people are flooding from where you live to where I live.. and frankly, I wish they wouldn't.

All the boomer hate…. I though I accidentally clicked Reddit instead of pinside for a second.

For me its simple.I will not support any vendors that sells for over the MSRP. I have seen Vendors like Tilt amusements, Game Exchange, Kingpin and probably others, sell all their games to pinheads at retail and everyone who buys from them have a game that can feel good about buying. When I see toppers for 3 k on eBay from vendors, or stern LEs for 15-16 k from stern dealers , I feel I would rather spend my money from a dealer who is not gouging their customers. I've been lucky enough to be able to buy 6 new in-box games and lots of used games over the years and have never sold a single one. I would love to have a Gozalla LE but I can't justify paying 15 k for it, and paying 15-16k from a dealer is a slap on the face to pinheads. I see people saying that the dealers need the money due to the shortage of games and that's how thay make up for it. If you have a product that pretty much sells out before you even pay for it, or get it from the manufacturer, your making a nice living selling at retail. It sucks for the vendors to see games get flipped and buyers making more than the vendors, but the question is about where or who we give our money to, and again, my cash goes to the dealers who I know sells at retail (or below) and give's good service.
It would be great if we could have a list of dealers and a place we can rate and share our experiences with them so we can spend our money more wisely with vendors that are not out playing the cash grab game,and vendors that give good support.

I'll be honest, I wasn't excited about the last price hike by stern to 6900 and 9k, but now I feel I'm begging to get a new GZ, JP, DP, STh, or anything other than Mando or AIQ (which seems to be available everywhere.) JP premiums for 11500? GZ premium $12k, and DP pro for over $9k. Insanity. I am finding more and more dealer/distributors are trading NIB pins vs selling unless its something that isn't popular right now. Hopefully I can buy something cool or trade, but not loving my chances.

I don’t understand why Stern doesn’t price these games higher to begin with, if they sell out for 12+ months and if buyers flip them for 50% more. All that means is that the product is too cheap.

If I was setting prices at Stern, I’d price premiums at $15k and LEs at $25k.

If people can flip NIB LEs for $15k, Stern is gifting the profit to someone who didn’t do anything other than somehow getting on a list early and risk “investing”. I’d feel ripped off if I was at Stern, seeing Stern LEs being used as 150% short term ROI vehicles. That cash should go to Stern, not to Joe Pinball who knew someone to get on the “in” list.

One point to make on behalf of the distributors. Yes they now sell virtually every new pin they can get their hands on at MSRP or above, but they too are limited on what they can get to actually sell. This in turns limits the amount of money they can make. You cannot sell for less and make it up in volume if there is no product available to sell. So for many of these small distributors they have a certain amount of fixed costs that must be covered. Rent, Payroll, Utilities, Insurance etc. all of those have gone up yet the number of pinball machines they can sell is constrained by supply issues. Also when the units actually arrive to ship and they actually make the money is also a bit randomized. Therefore they need to maintain cash flow to keep the lights on and the staff employed for when the pins are actually delivered and then shipped out. This may require charging a higher price on the pins they have to sell to cover their fixed costs and make a profit. Everyone wants a deal and in today's market a deal may actually be MSRP. A year from now, who knows. Fortunately, as many have said Pinball Machines are a luxury item. No one actually NEEDS a pinball machine. (I know that point can be debated)

Oh, this is a real shortage (still) as in Stern and the others *can’t* produce the machines so there is nothing to sell and distributors therefore don’t have a revenue stream?

I didn’t really follow this market so I thought the real “problem” is the extreme demand and Stern is firing on all cylinders pumping out product. Is Stern idling, waiting on parts?

I was under the impression that people for example bought *all* Rush LEs in a few minutes after they went on sale do don’t distributors get their cut?

If you go back 5 years ago distros were selling fewer games and at below MSRP and were makeing a living. So the argument of "they need more money" is not a good one without knowing the facts and how much they actualy make. Some dealers currently seem very happy selling at MSRP and feel no need to price gouge and seem to be paying the bills and making a living. Just saying I still think I would rather spend my money with the vendors who are not takeing advantage of the current market, and 5 years from now if things cool down I will remember the ones who sold at retail and still support them and suggest to others to buy from them, as well as suggest to others who not to buy from.

Distributors are free to charge whatever they want/can get for a machine. This won't change until Stern (or any other manufacturer) start to police their MSRP or the market finally has been pushed too far.

That being said, I think its a terrible market when the distributors become flippers and the common buyer can't get access to machines. I've talked to distributors that won't take pre-orders anymore claiming they don't know their allotment numbers and don't want to oversell. Yet on their website they have pros and premiums in-stock well over MSRP. They just don't want to be locked down to a lower price when they do get stock.

Hopefully stern is looking into selling direct to the consumer, or trimming the fat on the distributor list. The larger distributors that take preorders and offer support are great. It's usually the smaller ones that are just professional flippers and play gate keepers.

I’m not a distributor, but my understanding of margin on pinball machines is that it is not particularly high. How much do we suppose a dealer is making on a sale at MSRP? It can’t be more than 20%. 15? I have no idea. I would imagine it would be difficult to have a brick and mortar store that only sold pinball machines. You make more money margin wise on foosball, shuffle board, and other stuff.

If I really wanted a Ford GT I would pay the premium if I could find one.

I'm guessing the downvotes are because people don't want to see higher prices on games or the flippers that are making bank want the cash for themselves? Your point is valid. The flippers or dealers charging 15-25k are probably making more cash than stern per game. My thought is to stop making any limited number (LE or CE) games. If someone wants a LE-level game at 11k then make as many as the market wants. The only reason the manafactures don't do that is for the buying frenzy of people that want the rare game.

There must not be many bourbon drinkers among pinheads, at least not the ones who seem upset/shocked about how all this works. I think their heads would explode knowing how liquor stores/distributors handle sought after bourbons. Especially in states where it's not controlled, like NJ (I won't even touch the disgusting secondary market). And the shifts in the market here have been even quicker and more dramatic. MSRP means absolutely nothing, the distillery has a bottle like Weller 12 year at ~$40 MSRP, and you'd consider yourself lucky to have the privilege of paying $250 for it if you can even find it. The only ones you'll see on a shelf are likely behind a price tag of $400+. I need to provide sexual favors to get a bottle of Buffalo Trace in NJ, and this was largely used as a well/bottom shelf bourbon in most restaurants just a few years ago priced at ~$25 a bottle. Believe it or not, there are many hobbies in much worse shape right now then pinball. Not saying this disqualifies the feelings people have expressed in this thread, just providing some perspective. At the very least, it seems like there's still a fair amount of "good" distributers out there looking out for customers. This concept is non-existent in the bourbon world. And there is no resource like pinside either. New people to the hobby posting in groups and forums like pinside are laughed and mocked out of the hobby, pretty much told the best advice for entry is "don't be poor". Super toxic.

I bought a case of Pappy 15 for $40 a bottle around 2007….man that was a great few years of drinking that stuff!!!

I’m glad that Bulliet and Widow Jane taste exactly the same to me. And I’m glad I mostly drink craft beers for $1.66 a can.

Just my two cents ... The profit margin for distributors on all new pinball machines are extremely low.. Under 20% in most cases. In some cases even less then 10%. A lot of pinball hobbyists are making a lot of money right now reselling these hard to get games . Why shouldn't the distributors finally make some of it. They do a ton of work, and have to deal with everyone, especially the OMG it has a scratch behind the leg crowd. Give the distributors a break. The market is outrageous right now. If Stern can raise prices on Elvira to support giving people bonuses when the business is fantastic, then don't be mad at the distributors for making a few extra bucks, and joining in on the profits. If their margins were normal; say 25-40%, then I could understand being upset about it, however that is just not so.

I did not find this to be case for me at all and would like to say thank you to the host of this website and all the other pinheads who have helped me so much.

Thanks again! John

Just noting that JohnTTwo owns 12 top A-list games* and meets tallkid84's "don't be poor" requirement.

(* plus T2 and No Fear)

When people stop paying the high prices then the price goes down. WE have to stop paying out the a$$ for this to stop.