Yes why can’t stern just “figure out” how to increase production? It’s so simple!!
All it would take is to build a new additional factory, also for all of the supply chain issues to magically disappear via Gary finger snapping.
Why isn’t stern doing this? Are they dumb?
Stern really should turn over the reigns to pinside. Hiring that new president guy was a total waste of money.
Quoted from TheGunnett:https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/125501
The largest Stern Distributor selling well over MSRP right in time for Christmas.[quoted image]
Yeah I called him a couple months ago to buy a AFmR classic and price immediately went up to 9 or 10k. Not cool. Didn’t think Chicago gaming allowed this nonsense.
I will never buy a game there...ever
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:I can't help people who don't understand the problem.
Forcing distributors out who had years of history ( total shit move )
Forcing distros to cancel orders because they want to throttle number of games Distros get ( dick move )
Now - opening up new Distribution networks after cutting ties with others and limiting games of those that built this hobby ( super dick move )
Seems that I'd want the A list distributors to continue to sell games and as many as they can and support the people growing the hobby.
Pricing games over Manufacturers Price - Survival mode.. So who's to blame (stern)<--- What recourse do distros have to keep doors open when games are not flowing in.
Why haven't they increased production instead? Pretty sure they could figure it out.
Ok give me a list of all the distros that were forced out please. Because I was unaware of this mass exodus. And what orders are they exactly canceling? The ones that they overpromised to their customers? Because honestly if I was selling a product, I would make every effort to make certain exactly how much inventory I am receiving. With the hobby how it is now, people are "preordering" games by getting on a list and I feel like distros are overestimating how many games they are actually getting.
Increase production...yeah it is just that easy.
Quoted from Palmer:Ok give me a list of all the distros that were forced out please. Because I was unaware of this mass exodus. And what orders are they exactly canceling? The ones that they overpromised to their customers? Because honestly if I was selling a product, I would make every effort to make certain exactly how much inventory I am receiving. With the hobby how it is now, people are "preordering" games by getting on a list and I feel like distros are overestimating how many games they are actually getting.
Increase production...yeah it is just that easy.
I will not disclose that information.. It is private and personal and I will just leave it there. There were quiet a few small distro's that are no longer with Stern.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:That is what I am a bit afraid of when I eventually upgrade my vehicle. I am spending XXX to get fancy new features, I just want them to work. I remember my wife's friend bought a new vehicle and the bluetooth connection was just crap. This is stuff that is worked out on discount wireless speakers but not a $40,000 purchase? Come on.
But glad there is some advantages too; if you use your car for work and need your phone at points, having that built into the car (and thankfully work ) seems like a big win!
It's not perfect, but it's a damn sight better than fumbling with the phone. Apparently people actually root their cars to let the screens play videos, since that functionality in Android Auto is disabled (for good reason, really....but damn I want to just watch a video while I'm sitting in my car for an hour at lunch!). Android Auto does things that just connecting to bluetooth can't, like displaying the navigation on Maps with a small Spotify overlay so you can still change songs from the screen, or see the song titles. I haven't gotten too deep into it, but it's interesting coming from a prior car that was ~6 years older.
The stuff on this car that they're able to cram into what SHOULD be a 25k MSRP is pretty nuts, IMO. Ford is doing it too with the Maverick Hybrids. The advancements in the last few years for vehicles is bonkers, and it's really starting to feel like we could be 10-15 years off from things like full AI driving, or at the very least, substantially safer roads. My new car is about 75% of the way to being able to handle highway driving on it's own with very little interaction needed....but fine adjustments are definitely needed to accommodate for humans being.....humans. It's just not particularly good at sudden human variance. 
I don't have any animosity towards a distributer but I don't really see the point of them. They are just a middle man and added cost for me. I don't need any help or support setting up the pin. I am going to be able to deal with almost any issue that comes up. Anything major your really dealing with the manufacture anyway. It's just swapping something if its broken and your lucky enough they will send you a replacement. I would much rather just order online.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Hiring that new president guy was a total waste of money.
At least it was in devalued dollars.
Someone with more insight than me should create a list of distributors price gouging right now. When the market stabilizes and they need to compete again, I'd like to know who was more reasonable and who stuck it to their customers.
Quoted from seenev:Someone with more insight than me should create a list of distributors price gouging right now.
Get ready
F507AD51-637A-4457-8A08-47719B42B9BB (resized).jpeg
Quoted from Darscot:I don't have any animosity towards a distributer but I don't really see the point of them. They are just a middle man and added cost for me. I don't need any help or support setting up the pin. I am going to be able to deal with almost any issue that comes up. Anything major your really dealing with the manufacture anyway. It's just swapping something if its broken and your lucky enough they will send you a replacement. I would much rather just order online.
The main reason I've bought from a somewhat local out of state distro is to pick it up myself to save $300 shipping charges. Chicago would be impossible for a NEer to do that.
Quoted from Darscot:I don't have any animosity towards a distributer but I don't really see the point of them. They are just a middle man and added cost for me. I don't need any help or support setting up the pin. I am going to be able to deal with almost any issue that comes up. Anything major your really dealing with the manufacture anyway. It's just swapping something if its broken and your lucky enough they will send you a replacement. I would much rather just order online.
Don’t fool yourself… if Stern or JJP eliminates distributors, you won’t realize any cost savings. You’ll pay the same and they’ll keep the change.
Quoted from 27dnast:Don’t fool yourself… if Stern or JJP eliminates distributors, you won’t realize any cost savings. You’ll pay the same and they’ll keep the change.
Manufacturers need an inventory buffer to provide for the cyclical nature of sales. Without distributors, they wouldn't have a buffer to stuff full of the loser games that would have to be fire-saled in order to not need huge warehouses. The distributor provides an essential service to the manufacturer that is often forgotten when demand is high. Also, the cost of production and distribution only determines the lower limit of price, so the elimination of the middle-man would likely have little impact on price in a inefficient, low-competition market like toys for rich men and to a lesser degree, public operators.
Oh, how the kings have fallen... coming soon to a theater near you. It's known as the business cycle. The distribution chain buffers the market and moderates pricing swings. Making hay while the sun shines will turn to a dark winter soon enough. It's a natural cycle that is being pumped with funny money at the moment. When things tighten up, a buyers' market will return. The question is when not if.
Quoted from SadSack:Manufacturers need an inventory buffer to provide for the cyclical nature of sales. Without distributors, they wouldn't have a buffer to stuff full of the loser games that would have to be fire-saled in order to not need huge warehouses. The distributor provides an essential service to the manufacturer that is often forgotten when demand is high. Also, the cost of production and distribution only determines the lower limit of price, so the elimination of the middle-man would likely have little impact on price in a inefficient, low-competition market like toys for rich men and to a lesser degree, public operators.
Oh, how the kings have fallen... coming soon to a theater near you. It's known as the business cycle. The distribution chain buffers the market and moderates pricing swings. Making hay while the sun shines will turn to a dark winter soon enough. It's a natural cycle that is being pumped with funny money at the moment. When things tighten up, a buyers' market will return. The question is when not if.
Not to mention the logistics of shipping one game at a time to each order from the factory. Shipping bulk of 30 games at a time to one distributor address is way more efficient.
Quoted from Darscot:I don't have any animosity towards a distributer but I don't really see the point of them. They are just a middle man and added cost for me. I don't need any help or support setting up the pin. I am going to be able to deal with almost any issue that comes up. Anything major your really dealing with the manufacture anyway. It's just swapping something if its broken and your lucky enough they will send you a replacement. I would much rather just order online.
Outside of this forum, very few people (1) know that pinball machines can be purchased for your home/business, (2) know how to do simple repairs, and (3) have any idea what to do with machines once they have out grown them and want a new/different one.
While you might not need a distributor, the majority of pinball collectors (outside of the Pinside community) do need one. We are the people that bring the new machines to your local shows, we are the people that support your local tournaments and launch parties, we are the people that make sure the general public know that this is even a thing, we are people that deliver and setup the machines in people's home / businesses, and we are the people that deal with the customer support so the manufacturers can do what they do, which is build new machines.
I have lots of customers that don't need a thing from me other than the machines itself. Those are great customers and i truly enjoy dealing with them. they get a better price because i know that i am not going to be spending my evenings walking them through how to remove the glass, adjust a switch, understand what the "credit dot" means, or just adjusting the volume. For the average person though, they will generally pay MSRP (not over) because i do know that i will be spending time with them so they enjoy their pinball experience and therefore are more likely to purchase another machine. My job is to make money and support my family. I do this by making sure each and every customer enjoys their pinball (and other gaming) experieces. This is accomplished by doing in home deliveries, by making followup phone calls / emails, and by them (the customer) knowing that they can call me for technical advise on repairs, or just advice on a new machine they have been looking at.
At the end of the day, the distributor network serves a purpose to the MAJORITY of the pinball community. I don't need help changing the oil on my truck, but i would never think about getting rid of the car dealers. I don't want to be just another number when i call Dodge, i want to be known by name when i bring my truck in for maintance or service.
For your point of us "just a middle man and added cost for me," buy a game directly from Spooky or JJP. The price you pay will be the same as what I will be asking you. The "before, during, and after the sale" benefits are greater coming from myself than from a manufacturer, I GUARENTEE IT. There are so many great dealers/distributors out there that we shouldn't let a few that charge more ruin our names. Many of us doing this for a living, and have been doing this for a while now. Some of the new ones that have just came in are all about the short game and will be gone in a year or two when they can not get the amount of machines it will take for them to survive (at msrp). The rest of us will survive and be here for our customers when supply returns to normal.
The points of supply and demand have been gone over repeatedly in this thread already, so no need to revisit them again. Just remember that 99.9% of all businesses (in the US) are Small Businesses and therefore you typically know the owner and the people running it. 88% of all small businesses have less than 40 employees. There isn't a manufacturer out there, USA based (including Spooky), that doesn't have more than 40 employees. Most of your pinball distributors / dealers are typically less than 5 people.
If you want to be just another number (with no monetary savings) then advocate for the demolishment of the distirbutor network, but if you want to know that someone else is THANKFUL becuase you are their customer and not just a paycheck, then start to appreciate everything that we do.
@darscot, this post is not directly entirely just at you. I have seen this arguement brought up multiple times over the years and while it is a valid arguement for you, it certainly does NOT apply to the majority of pinball owners (which don't even know that "Pinside" is a thing). Take what i post with a grain of salt from someone that does this for a living. Are we making money right now, YES. When demand is through the roof, selling machines is an easy thing to do, but don't forget that demand has not always been like it has for the last 18 months. Don't forget about the times when distributors (like myself) had to pay in full for Wizard of Oz up front and then play the waiting game. Don't forget about games like WWE, Dialed In!, Rob Zombie, Oktoberfest, etc that were ordered and than sat for months before prices were discounted in order to move inventory. For anyone that has been doing this for more than 10 years, these last 18 months (while devestating to the world at large) have been a payoff for YEARS of hard work and struggle.
I am not here to tell anyone what to do, I can only control what my company does. We are here for the long haul and hope to be doing this for a couple decades to come. Pinball is HOT right now for mulitiple reasons. It won't stay that way forever, and then it will be back to putting in more time and effort to make ends meet when the demand is no longer insane. Our customers will tell you that our prices are fair, we stand behind the products we sell (even when the manufacturer does not), and that we know each of them and treat them all with the respect that is earned from entering a sales agreement between seller and buyer.
Quoted from 27dnast:Don’t fool yourself… if Stern or JJP eliminates distributors, you won’t realize any cost savings. You’ll pay the same and they’ll keep the change.
Oh I 100% never thought it would lower the price. Long term we might get a little more time before the next increase as the margins would be better.
Quoted from KingPinGames:We are the people that bring the new machines to your local shows
^^This. I was able to play the newest pins Cactus Canyon Remake LE, Halloween, Legends of Valhalla, Godzilla LE at Pintastic in the Vendor Hall thanks to distros that brought them. It's a main reason for us to go to the local shows to play just released pins. I think there is an assumption that direct factory buy prices will not exceed MSRP. No idea if that is the case or not, but distros provide in some ways, just like The Dude. 
Biglebowskiposter (resized).jpgQuoted from KingPinGames:Outside of this forum, very few people (1) know that pinball machines can be purchased for your home/business, (2) know how to do simple repairs, and (3) have any idea what to do with machines once they have out grown them and want a new/different one.
While you might not need a distributor, the majority of pinball collectors (outside of the Pinside community) do need one. We are the people that bring the new machines to your local shows, we are the people that support your local tournaments and launch parties, we are the people that make sure the general public know that this is even a thing, we are people that deliver and setup the machines in people's home / businesses, and we are the people that deal with the customer support so the manufacturers can do what they do, which is build new machines.
I have lots of customers that don't need a thing from me other than the machines itself. Those are great customers and i truly enjoy dealing with them. they get a better price because i know that i am not going to be spending my evenings walking them through how to remove the glass, adjust a switch, understand what the "credit dot" means, or just adjusting the volume. For the average person though, they will generally pay MSRP (not over) because i do know that i will be spending time with them so they enjoy their pinball experience and therefore are more likely to purchase another machine. My job is to make money and support my family. I do this by making sure each and every customer enjoys their pinball (and other gaming) experieces. This is accomplished by doing in home deliveries, by making followup phone calls / emails, and by them (the customer) knowing that they can call me for technical advise on repairs, or just advice on a new machine they have been looking at.
At the end of the day, the distributor network serves a purpose to the MAJORITY of the pinball community. I don't need help changing the oil on my truck, but i would never think about getting rid of the car dealers. I don't want to be just another number when i call Dodge, i want to be known by name when i bring my truck in for maintance or service.
For your point of us "just a middle man and added cost for me," buy a game directly from Spooky or JJP. The price you pay will be the same as what I will be asking you. The "before, during, and after the sale" benefits are greater coming from myself than from a manufacturer, I GUARENTEE IT. There are so many great dealers/distributors out there that we shouldn't let a few that charge more ruin our names. Many of us doing this for a living, and have been doing this for a while now. Some of the new ones that have just came in are all about the short game and will be gone in a year or two when they can not get the amount of machines it will take for them to survive (at msrp). The rest of us will survive and be here for our customers when supply returns to normal.
The points of supply and demand have been gone over repeatedly in this thread already, so no need to revisit them again. Just remember that 99.9% of all businesses (in the US) are Small Businesses and therefore you typically know the owner and the people running it. 88% of all small businesses have less than 40 employees. There isn't a manufacturer out there, USA based (including Spooky), that doesn't have more than 40 employees. Most of your pinball distributors / dealers are typically less than 5 people.
If you want to be just another number (with no monetary savings) then advocate for the demolishment of the distirbutor network, but if you want to know that someone else is THANKFUL becuase you are their customer and not just a paycheck, then start to appreciate everything that we do.
Darscot, this post is not directly entirely just at you. I have seen this arguement brought up multiple times over the years and while it is a valid arguement for you, it certainly does NOT apply to the majority of pinball owners (which don't even know that "Pinside" is a thing). Take what i post with a grain of salt from someone that does this for a living. Are we making money right now, YES. When demand is through the roof, selling machines is an easy thing to do, but don't forget that demand has not always been like it has for the last 18 months. Don't forget about the times when distributors (like myself) had to pay in full for Wizard of Oz up front and then play the waiting game. Don't forget about games like WWE, Dialed In!, Rob Zombie, Oktoberfest, etc that were ordered and than sat for months before prices were discounted in order to move inventory. For anyone that has been doing this for more than 10 years, these last 18 months (while devestating to the world at large) have been a payoff for YEARS of hard work and struggle.
I am not here to tell anyone what to do, I can only control what my company does. We are here for the long haul and hope to be doing this for a couple decades to come. Pinball is HOT right now for mulitiple reasons. It won't stay that way forever, and then it will be back to putting in more time and effort to make ends meet when the demand is no longer insane. Our customers will tell you that our prices are fair, we stand behind the products we sell (even when the manufacturer does not), and that we know each of them and treat them all with the respect that is earned from entering a sales agreement between seller and buyer.
Careful, you'll break the mic dropping it that hard!
It’s none of our business how distributors set their prices. It’s between them and the manufacturer (Stern). We can decide not to buy if the price is too high. We do not deserve a “good deal”.
Quoted from KingPinGames:Outside of this forum, very few people (1) know that pinball machines can be purchased for your home/business, (2) know how to do simple repairs, and (3) have any idea what to do with machines once they have out grown them and want a new/different one.
While you might not need a distributor, the majority of pinball collectors (outside of the Pinside community) do need one. We are the people that bring the new machines to your local shows, we are the people that support your local tournaments and launch parties, we are the people that make sure the general public know that this is even a thing, we are people that deliver and setup the machines in people's home / businesses, and we are the people that deal with the customer support so the manufacturers can do what they do, which is build new machines.
I have lots of customers that don't need a thing from me other than the machines itself. Those are great customers and i truly enjoy dealing with them. they get a better price because i know that i am not going to be spending my evenings walking them through how to remove the glass, adjust a switch, understand what the "credit dot" means, or just adjusting the volume. For the average person though, they will generally pay MSRP (not over) because i do know that i will be spending time with them so they enjoy their pinball experience and therefore are more likely to purchase another machine. My job is to make money and support my family. I do this by making sure each and every customer enjoys their pinball (and other gaming) experieces. This is accomplished by doing in home deliveries, by making followup phone calls / emails, and by them (the customer) knowing that they can call me for technical advise on repairs, or just advice on a new machine they have been looking at.
At the end of the day, the distributor network serves a purpose to the MAJORITY of the pinball community. I don't need help changing the oil on my truck, but i would never think about getting rid of the car dealers. I don't want to be just another number when i call Dodge, i want to be known by name when i bring my truck in for maintance or service.
For your point of us "just a middle man and added cost for me," buy a game directly from Spooky or JJP. The price you pay will be the same as what I will be asking you. The "before, during, and after the sale" benefits are greater coming from myself than from a manufacturer, I GUARENTEE IT. There are so many great dealers/distributors out there that we shouldn't let a few that charge more ruin our names. Many of us doing this for a living, and have been doing this for a while now. Some of the new ones that have just came in are all about the short game and will be gone in a year or two when they can not get the amount of machines it will take for them to survive (at msrp). The rest of us will survive and be here for our customers when supply returns to normal.
The points of supply and demand have been gone over repeatedly in this thread already, so no need to revisit them again. Just remember that 99.9% of all businesses (in the US) are Small Businesses and therefore you typically know the owner and the people running it. 88% of all small businesses have less than 40 employees. There isn't a manufacturer out there, USA based (including Spooky), that doesn't have more than 40 employees. Most of your pinball distributors / dealers are typically less than 5 people.
If you want to be just another number (with no monetary savings) then advocate for the demolishment of the distirbutor network, but if you want to know that someone else is THANKFUL becuase you are their customer and not just a paycheck, then start to appreciate everything that we do.
Darscot, this post is not directly entirely just at you. I have seen this arguement brought up multiple times over the years and while it is a valid arguement for you, it certainly does NOT apply to the majority of pinball owners (which don't even know that "Pinside" is a thing). Take what i post with a grain of salt from someone that does this for a living. Are we making money right now, YES. When demand is through the roof, selling machines is an easy thing to do, but don't forget that demand has not always been like it has for the last 18 months. Don't forget about the times when distributors (like myself) had to pay in full for Wizard of Oz up front and then play the waiting game. Don't forget about games like WWE, Dialed In!, Rob Zombie, Oktoberfest, etc that were ordered and than sat for months before prices were discounted in order to move inventory. For anyone that has been doing this for more than 10 years, these last 18 months (while devestating to the world at large) have been a payoff for YEARS of hard work and struggle.
I am not here to tell anyone what to do, I can only control what my company does. We are here for the long haul and hope to be doing this for a couple decades to come. Pinball is HOT right now for mulitiple reasons. It won't stay that way forever, and then it will be back to putting in more time and effort to make ends meet when the demand is no longer insane. Our customers will tell you that our prices are fair, we stand behind the products we sell (even when the manufacturer does not), and that we know each of them and treat them all with the respect that is earned from entering a sales agreement between seller and buyer.
Only one upvote was allowed, or I would give you more. 
The only defense I can think of is this:
Why would I sell to a consumer knowing they are simply going to take the game I sold them and Price Jack it.
I'd be ultra pissed if I was a dealer and had a bunch of people on a list and Person A only intentions is to price jack while
Person B is looking to share with the pinball world or his family and friends.
That would piss me off for sure. Especially if I bent over backwards to get you a game only to find out you price jacked someone.
Federal government has stepped in on Price Jackers in some industries now. People using bots, organized labor for the sole
purpose of reselling above Manufacturing price as a response to Xbox X and Toilet paper shennanigans of 2020.
That said. Personally I have NO issues with people that "Mod a machine and make it something more than it was".
I remember Pinball Refinery would do this among a few others. They'd powder coat legs, install mods and provide a service
beyond what the manufacturer intended. Or when a game that is out of circulation and exceedingly desirable is put up for
sale that is truly HUO, restored and significantly better than par. Other companies put out magazines, events and show up and sponsor events get my $.
Quoted from TechnicalSteam:The only defense I can think of is this:
Why would I sell to a consumer knowing they are simply going to take the game I sold them and Price Jack it.
I'd be ultra pissed if I was a dealer and had a bunch of people on a list and Person A only intentions is to price jack while
Person B is looking to share with the pinball world or his family and friends.
That would piss me off for sure. Especially if I bent over backwards to get you a game only to find out you price jacked someone.
Federal government has stepped in on Price Jackers in some industries now. People using bots, organized labor for the sole
purpose of reselling above Manufacturing price as a response to Xbox X and Toilet paper shennanigans of 2020.
That said. Personally I have NO issues with people that "Mod a machine and make it something more than it was".
I remember Pinball Refinery would do this among a few others. They'd powder coat legs, install mods and provide a service
beyond what the manufacturer intended. Or when a game that is out of circulation and exceedingly desirable is put up for
sale that is truly HUO, restored and significantly better than par. Other companies put out magazines, events and show up and sponsor events get my $.
Here's a good example,my JP looks like it's delayed until April 2022,and this clown is flipping his NIB !
Screenshot_20211206-213518 (resized).pngQuoted from TechnicalSteam:...I'd be ultra pissed if I was a dealer and had a bunch of people on a list and Person A only intentions is to price jack while
Person B is looking to share with the pinball world or his family and friends.
That would piss me off for sure....
You sound emotionally unstable. It's not your place or a dealer's for that matter to mind what happens to any game after the sale. I couldn't care less if people buy them to drop off buildings. The only thing I expect is for people to honor their agreements.. whether that means selling to a guy with the deposit down or selling for the price committed to in the dealer agreements.
Mind your own business. Did you learn this behavior from your wife?
In fact, I think the guys who add 3 grand in mods and never even play the game do the most harm. They try to add value and all they really do is junk up the games.
Quoted from SadSack:I think the guys who add 3 grand in mods and never even play the game do the most harm. They try to add value and all they really do is junk up the games.
I up voted you for this comment.
Sometimes I wonder if those guys have some elaborate toy railroad layout with no more room to add, so they get into pinball and start adding all they can.
(but we are all different and maybe some people just have more fun with all of that).
Quoted from JohnnyPinball007:I up voted you for this comment.
Sometimes I wonder if those guys have some elaborate toy railroad layout with no more room to add, so they get into pinball and start adding all they can.
(but we are all different and maybe some people just have more fun with all of that).
Who are we to judge those people.
Almost all of us have spent thousands of dollars to see a plastic bat fling around a metal ball.
From the outside looking in, we're all a little kooky.
If anything, the people modding out their games are doing it right, as they're getting joy out of the game AND joy out of making that game their own.
Quoted from playtwowin:In many industries they do. In many industries this is a very good way to have your distributorship taken from you.
What don’t you get about MSRP manufactures SUGGESTED retail price!!!!!!
Quoted from Nickson:What don’t you get about MSRP manufactures SUGGESTED retail price!!!!!!
I get it however some manufacturers do not think it's a "suggestion" If they wanted their products sold for more money they would instruct their distributors to do so.
Quoted from SadSack:Mind your own business. Did you learn this behavior from your wife?
I'll bite. WTF is that supposed to mean?
Quoted from explosiveegg:...
If anything, the people modding out their games are doing it right, as they're getting joy out of the game AND joy out of making that game their own.
This can be yours for the low, low price of $60,000. It has over $100k invested in it!
japanese-car-mods (resized).jpgQuoted from 27dnast:I'll bite. WTF is that supposed to mean?
Who knows, but he got moderated for it! 
Quoted from SadSack:This can be yours for the low, low price of $60,000. It has over $100k invested in it!
[quoted image]
If you don't like bosozuku cars you're probably pretty out of touch and still think muscle cars were the pinnacle of automotive design.
Quoted from SadSack:This can be yours for the low, low price of $60,000. It has over $100k invested in it!
[quoted image]
That ride is dope.
On the subject of price. If the buyer doesn't see value in the upgrades, then they won't buy it. No harm no foul. They can list a game for whatevet they want, if it's a bad price, nobody will buy it.
I'm personally willing to pay a little bit more for a game that has mods I like. As an example, a newer Stern that has had the legs and armor powdered coated, a shaker motor installed, speaker lights, and side art. I'd certainly be willing to pay a couple hundred more for that.
Am I going to match the amount of money they put into modding it? No, but I'm still willing to spend something extra.
If the mods aren't tasteful the market will speak for itself.
There are just as many people claiming HUO on old games and trying to sell them for 10k over market when they clearly have been beaten to hell. People will always try to find the gullible buyers and rip them off.
Quoted from Haymaker:If you don't like bosozuku cars you're probably pretty out of touch and still think muscle cars were the pinnacle of automotive design.
av gif.gifQuoted from Haymaker:muscle cars were the pinnacle of automotive design
Confused; Weren't they?
Quoted from SadSack:This can be yours for the low, low price of $60,000. It has over $100k invested in it!
[quoted image]
This is pretty much exactly what I see when people powder coat rails and coin doors.
Quoted from Donnyman:Wow! Wally World kicked it up a notch in price! https://www.walmart.com/ip/Arcade1UP-Williams-Digital-Pinball-Attack-Mars-II/116748569
I have always dreamed of walking into a Walmart and proceed to play Attack From Mars... As if we needed another excuse to go to Walmart. 
giphy-4.gifLaugh it up while you can about arcade1up pinball.
A certain number of people that buy those arcade1up pinball machines will decide they want an actual pinball machine and turn into pinball machine collectors/buyers.
Same thing happened with arcade machine collecting.
There are a number of arcade machine collectors that started out by first purchasing and arcade1up.
More collectors/buyers = more capital in the marketplace.
More capital in the marketplace + limited supply = higher prices.
I enjoy playing virtual pinball. It's not the same as real pinball but still fun. These new virtual pins are a good gateway drug to get these new people hooked...
This conduct should be barred by Stern. the prices should be set, and not subject to local forces of demand. It is ridiculous to allow a distro to hoard NIB titles to sell them after production stops at a huge markup. hurts the hobby.
Quoted from Donnyman:Wow! Wally World kicked it up a notch in price! https://www.walmart.com/ip/Arcade1UP-Williams-Digital-Pinball-Attack-Mars-II/116748569
Gonna be a hard sell when Best Buy just went down to $749:
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/arcade1up-williams-bally-attack-from-mars-pinball-digital/6448415.p?skuId=6448415
Quoted from Zitt:Confused; Weren't they?
no, they are objectively garbage and slow. Don't get me wrong, I love muscle cars and they look cool, but they are trash. If I have to suffer through one more boomer telling me about how fast his Chevelle was that I would absolutely destroy in ANY type of race with a Camry, I'm gonna freakin lose it. Basically my point though, is I hate when people use Bosozuko cars as an example of a "bad" car. That was kind of the point of them. Its usually some hillbilly that is like "HURR DURR CAR LOOK DUMB LOOK AT THIS RICER HAR HAR, BARB, GET ME ANOTHER BEER! Now let me tell you about a real car, my 81 Camarooo yessir that baby would chirp da tires shiftin inta third"
--In b4 someone posts a picture of their dumb built drag car or something--
Quoted from Haymaker:no, they are objectively garbage and slow. Don't get me wrong, I love muscle cars and they look cool, but they are trash. If I have to suffer through one more boomer telling me about how fast his Chevelle was that I would absolutely destroy in ANY type of race with a Camry, I'm gonna freakin lose it. Basically my point though, is I hate when people use Bosozuko cars as an example of a "bad" car. That was kind of the point of them. Its usually some hillbilly that is like "HURR DURR CAR LOOK DUMB LOOK AT THIS RICER HAR HAR, BARB, GET ME ANOTHER BEER! Now let me tell you about a real car, my 81 Camarooo yessir that baby would chirp da tires shiftin inta third"
--In b4 someone posts a picture of their dumb built drag car or something--
What’s wrong with 4 wheel drum brakes and manual steering in a 6000 pound rocket?
On that note…muscle cars are still popular for a reason. Style. No heads turned when a Honda drives by. Except the new SI. That’s sweet. Other than that…git off my lawn.
Quoted from Haymaker:no, they are objectively garbage and slow. Don't get me wrong, I love muscle cars and they look cool, but they are trash. If I have to suffer through one more bo :neener:omer telling me about how fast his Chevelle was that I would absolutely destroy in ANY type of race with a Camry, I'm gonna freakin lose it. Basically my point though, is I hate when people use Bosozuko cars as an example of a "bad" car. That was kind of the point of them. Its usually some hillbilly that is like "HURR DURR CAR LOOK DUMB LOOK AT THIS RICER HAR HAR, BARB, GET ME ANOTHER BEER! Now let me tell you about a real car, my 81 Camarooo yessir that baby would chirp da tires shiftin inta third"
--In b4 someone posts a picture of their dumb built drag car or something--
My buddy in highschool had a Chevelle, that would blow your doors in. He even won this trophy. 
51i1QgfxSLL._AC_SY1000_ (resized).jpg
Quoted from underlord:What’s wrong with 4 wheel drum brakes and manual steering in a 6000 pound rocket?
On that note…muscle cars are still popular for a reason. Style. No heads turned when a Honda drives by. Except the new SI. That’s sweet. Other than that…git off my lawn.
Heh. I haven't seen a SI in person, but my new car is a 2022 Civic Sport. Interesting transition going from a 2015 Civic to a 2022 Sport. Whatever the cosmetic differences are in the body, I can't tell, but I'm not a car guy. My only regret (aside from the inflated price tag) was not being able to get ahold of a hatchback. I really wanted to try to shoehorn a pin in two parts in there. Unfortunately necessity was more of a priority than desire. Didn't get the hatch, didn't get the color I wanted. Oh well!
Quoted from underlord:What’s wrong with 4 wheel drum brakes and manual steering in a 6000 pound rocket?
On that note…muscle cars are still popular for a reason. Style. No heads turned when a Honda drives by. Except the new SI. That’s sweet. Other than that…git off my lawn.
A '65 Dart with a 318 V8 means nothing when you have drum brakes making your way down the canyon from the ski resorts in Utah. A two lane, super steep road with hairpin turns paired with sheer dropoffs just past the road, mixed with massive brake fade not even halfway down make for a white-knuckle descent. Only did that ONCE.
My wife hated my (restored) '65 Dart when we were going out because she wasn't used to people gawking at the car. She got used to it. 30 years later it was her electric Fiat 500E with the orange/white paint that caused the same thing. It was the first in our town for more than a year. Turned heads everywhere she went in it.
But yeah, muscle cars are all about style and how they feel to drive. So many of the "reboots" of classic muscle cars just completely miss the mark. The new Dart a few years ago was a DISASTER that shared none of the DNA with the original.
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