Exactly. Ok. $12 cuz I like you Levi. I’ll even pay for shipping.

And no, I don’t want to believe it. Yes. It’s nonsense.

You can see it happening with your own eyes, unless you're blind!!

Yeah, I tried Costco Auto first, but they said there were no dealers in our region with the car we were looking for, and I believe it. I only found like 8 total from Bakersfield, CA to Medford OR, and some hadn't even arrived yet.

Yeah. We'd been holding out since last year. The Odyssey had been burning oil, transmission slipping, catalytic converter gone, and other mechanical issues that were going to cost a LOT to fix, and it probably would fail smog this year. It had 200k miles on it and had hauled a LOT of pins, but it was past time.

Killed me to pay that, but it kind of evened out since that Odyssey we got in the 2008 downturn for $28k out the door with tax, license, title - everything when the MSRP was like $36k because dealerships couldn't give cars away right after the economy crashed and the lots were overloaded. So win some, lose some, I guess is the moral here.

Forced is too strong a word. Chose to... sure.

Hahahaha

Finally. Someone gets it.

You should see the prices people are paying over in the Filet-O-fish thread.
In 1965 they were only 29 cents.

You're right. You know better than I do what local dealerships are charging for new and used cars, or what the needs of my family are. I'm sure you're super aware of the car market in Dallas.

Just dont buy it, problem solved

LOL I get a kick out people complaining about flippers, like you stated above. Buying a pin for less is stupid, pony up pay the price enjoy the game. After all I am just a construction worker.

Were they holding a gun to your head or something? If so, I agree, I was not aware of that

And if your family "needed" a new(er) vehicle sure... but NEEDing vs. wanting? I am not sure I have ever been forced to make a purchase... and if you wanted that particular vehicle and were okay paying over retail... no judgement there. I just find the "I had no choice in the universe but to make that purchase" to be interesting.

I keep seeing this and it's crazy to me. I was casually looking for a new vehicle when COVID hit. A few months in, dealers seemed to be having great sales. I picked up a new 2019 Jeep Renegade at 8K under MSRP. It was one of only a few 2019s left on the lot in June 2020. I hadn't bought a new vehicle in ages, but wanted to get something with those cool creature comforts I saw in my friend's vehicles. Really glad I did, at this point, because I couldn't make myself do it with what's going on now.

Is there some specific reason you're using the logic of an 11 year old? Nobody is holding a gun to my head for me to have a job either, yet, we both know that without a job, I can't buy food, housing or clothes, but hey....I guess you're right, I'm not forced to have a job and I could choose to live on the street, right? Really moronic reasoning there, and I'm sure you're capable of doing better than that mess.

I don't have to justify why my family needs two vehicles, or the specific vehicle choice I made, to you or anyone else. Was I FORCED into taking the COVID surcharge, cosmetic damage warranty, cargo mat, the door protection trim, and the wheel locks? Absolutely. I asked them to not put that crap on there several times and they refused, and this is a place I've bought FOUR prior vehicles from. The finance guy recognized us immediately, and it's been YEARS. Other dealers we went to after they told us that (because I was pissed off about it) *literally* had sales guys laughing in our face when we even asked if they even had the models we wanted, that their entire next two shipments were pre-sold. Devils you know vs. the ones you don't. At least the place I bought from told me the actual truth WITHOUT any BS. They were up-front about it, even telling me before we'd settled on a car that they're adding a 1000.00 "screw you because of demand" fee (yes, also on used cars) when I just stopped by the first time to see what was available.

If you don't understand this, then....I don't even know what to say.

Is there a single discussion involving Frax that doesn't involve multiple eye roll emojis and someone being called a moron?

Relax buddy! Why are you always at war?

Internet only deals in absolutes.

I get his frustration. Prices are getting more insane the less product we have to sell. Our Dealer used to get 200 cars a month. Now: 6 a week. Yeah. 6.

This is what we were told by multiple dealers as well. The car I bought was one of three they received that day. We literally went to their shop and watched them putting on the splash guard, door guard, window tint etc.....all the while with another dude and his adult son lined up behind us to test drive it. They went and drove it as we were starting all the paperwork, so I got a car with 15 miles on it instead of probably 5. Oh noes! Hope they didn't want red, because that was the only one, and no way I was buying a black car in Texas!

Someone needs to make a list of Stern distros selling over MSRP and what distros sell at MSRP or below? When I heard CGC enforces a strict no selling over MSRP rule-that got me thinking-why would Stern not do the same? Too many distributors fighting over limited allocation has distros turning into scalpers. Time for Stern to put an end to it and enforce MSRP, let's make dealers honest again and help control pinflation.

Lots of unusual takes on here; if Stern were to do something like that, they would just raise the MSRP again (and again) until there is no "flipping" margin. They have done that for years. They will continue to do that. I am sure Stern wants their dealers to keep their doors open, but why limit their profitability when you can make it your own?

I understand when somebody is sounding stressed.

You went to a dealership. Bought a car for more than you would have liked, but you were agreeable enough with the price that you signed on the dotted line. It seems to have left a bad taste in your mouth, but I hope you enjoy it. We maybe just have different definitions of the words "forced" vs. "chose to".

FWIW I am "forced" to drive a reasonably reliable 2005 car... because I am too cheap to spend $600 a month on payments for a sweet new ride.

Why limit their profitability-are you serious?

Shit is flippin out of control because of the number of dealers and limited allocation.

For me there is a solution: Enforce MSRP, and make Limited Editions unlimited for a certain duration of time.

Well they won't be able to sell as many because of FOMO? Sorry but the cat is out of the bag and I believe Stern no longer needs to rely on FOMO to sell games.

Unlimited limited editions? Oh no.

And this is coming from someone who thinks le's are fake anyways. Every pro and premium is limited in terms of how many they make. Sometimes they just make more eventually. Then the limited amount available is just larger.

Stern is setting dealers up to have to do this. Imagine spending thousands of dollars on marketing and growing your business only to be told.. Hey your only getting X amount. That's F'd up.

Then to top that.. They go and tell dealers that unless you sell X amount you'll loose your business. That's F'd Up.

To rub salt in the wound they are now trying to open up a bunch of new Distro spots vs supply the Distros they have with the games they have sold. That's even more Screwed Up.

Who cares? You will... When you can't break even on your NIB game. People say it's a labor of love but at a certain point people don't want to bleed out.. These Distro's without machine aren't making money. Yet Sterns going to rub Salt in them.

I've been running the numbers for many months on what it would take to open a successful location. With prices going up and Inflation running rampant and Millenials and Zoomers not really big drinkers that causes some issues long term. Add in that many municipalities are cracking down on Arcade / Pinball taxes that makes keeping things operational hard.

How many Operators are going to be able to monetize the price increases.. ( Big Cities with large populations of youth ) but not many other places.

2022 Taxes are going suck for most Middle Class people. That Child credit that so many of my friends and family came to depend on well it's Spent unless you opted out. That extra cash you got ain't going be there come Tax time. Unless you saved it. The idea was you'd spend it and help churn the economy. Well the Tax man cometh.

I think Jacking the already high prices on Pinball machines is a foolish move. I also think that there is a huge risk to Distributors down the road who may be sitting on product 6-9 months from now that isn't going move because they have pissed of their consumer base.

When the Worlds population doesn't work for 2 years and governments borrow tons and tons of money. What comes next..Inflation. Who pays the Wealthy , Middle Class business owners is who and it always trickles down .. down. Which causes things to get nasty.

I do think everything is relative and the LE's today are artificial. Why do I buy LE's? Do I want to be hip and post on Instagram my shiny new Elvira 4Oth edition purple lipstick paperweight? No I buy LE's for the extras and mainly game-play feature differences. I either buy LE or PRO-never considered a premium. Am I concerned about resale?-no I honestly believe if they made them unlimited for a couple years it would not tarnish the 'LE' brand. It is still limited for a certain duration of time-just not a certain number attached to it. It would eliminate scalpers and help get LE machines to everyone that wants one. Like I said the cat is out of the bag and they may actually sell more machines by making it unlimited for a certain amount of time. Fu%k FOMO

Don't worry, they just pumped 1.7 billion into the IRS to hire thousands of new auditors, and people actually believe its to catch billionaires cheating on their taxes. You know, the guys who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for the best tax professionals to do their taxes to be the best the law will allow (which is the real problem) and definitely not for all the venmo, ebay, small business, ect, ect transactions that us commoners have become used to "forgetting" to file.

Well, in that regard, my insurance company paid out 17k cash for my old wrecked car, instead of paying the 11k to fix it that the repair shop gave them a bill for, so that certainly helped. There's no way in hell that I'd ever be able to afford that kind of a car payment either, honestly. Even what I'll be paying on this car, I opted to pay off a 401k loan I had instead of putting down 5k more than the insurance payout, simply because it was costing me more to make the payments back to myself on the 401k than I'd save in monthly payments on the car.

I'm enjoying the new car, but some of the features are implemented really oddly. Adaptive cruise control accelerates and brakes way too suddenly for city driving, for example. Having Android Auto is nice, as it removed any reason for the phone to be in my hand while I'm driving (not related to my accident, for the record), so that's a huge plus. That's one of the things I REALLY hated about driving for rideshare to fill in budget gaps was having to fumble with my phone, even in a car mount. Having the touchscreen built into the car and being able to use voice commands and the audio controls on the wheel reduces my distractions significantly.

If you think distros are sitting on a bunch of product 6 months from now, then you are completely out of touch. For every pissed off customer there are twelve more waiting to pay a premium just to get any game.

I am so tired of everyone vilifying distros. They are running a business, not leaching off the hobby...unlike the recent trend of NIB deposit flippers.

Pinside always wants every narrative to have a "bad guy," a villain who is responsible for that game they can't get, or that price that's too high, or that topper they just can't score. It's getting really old.

There's not always heavy, or someone out to get you. Sometimes it's just what it is. Pinball in 2021 is what it is.

Maybe find a new hobby if it's always making you so angry, stop trying to rile up the mob into burning a bunch of people trying to make an honest living at the stake, and stop pretending you can somehow berate or shame prices into going down. That's not how it works.

I do recall Stern telling people the MSRP was a minimum and that Distributors couldn't sell under that MSRP by a certain margin.
I do recall at that point I was "done" buying Stern. For that reason, and many others.

Supply<Demand=Higher Prices
Demand<Supply=Lower Prices
Extremely Limited Supply<Extremely High Demand=PINFLATION

That's not how this works.

This makes no sense at all. If you are buying LEs "mainly for game-play features" there is absolutely no reason not to consider a premium. If gameplay is what matters, that is what the premium is for. The LEs are for people who want to spend too much money on shiny things and feel like they have something exclusive.

An unlimited limited model is the antithesis of this.

I have checked several dictionaries, and none of them have "suggested" defined as "manufacturer enforced."

I'm sad for the Limited Editions that wind up getting very Limited Play in Limited Admittance Brag Museums.

Perhaps Stern should ditch the LE moniker and just call them Fancy Schmancy Editions so they can overcharge for as many as people want.

All the classic games are selling for over their original MSRPs no matter who the seller is...

In this market, it’s either the manufacturer, distributor or flipper who will be marking up prices, take your pick. Demand is way higher than supply.

590DF8DB-0DEB-4234-B116-5CEEFF855190.gif

If the above MSRP pricing by distributors becomes the norm then what’s to stop Stern from just selling direct at these new prices and reaping all the reward?

They already are testing the waters a bit with the limited direct LE sales and several distros still drop ship direct from stern to avoid unnecessary transport across country.

Didn’t JJP start doing this with GNR as well? Direct orders that is.

Best I can tell Stern doesn't want to deal directly with us turkeys, they have their hands full designing, producing, and manufacturing games.

I have a feeling dealing directly with thousands of customers a year wouldn't be worth the "reward."

Who knows if prices snap back to where they were but if they don’t Stern would be foolish to not capitalize even with the hassles of us customers.

It's not the Distros it's Stern - G,. Stern is problem not distro. Things will be much different in 6 months in this hobby.

Now Gary is the problem?! I will come back to this thread in 6 months to tell you that you are wrong...again.

Or you could of picked up a phone, called a few distros to realize that they were all mostly selling under MSRP. It wasn't crazy numbers but 200-300 under on average. That was shipped and no tax as well.

Most/Many manufacturers find distributors a big nuisance in an up market, but critical in a down market. In the up market they think that their product sells itself and there is no need to pay a distributor a margin. In the down market they are hungry to find a place to ship inventory and they rely on the distributors network and selling skills to move product. The rub is that you can't fire them in the up market and then just bring them back when things go down hill.

Sure. But I had my distributor, so that want the problem
Pricing, cost cutting, quality, and crap themes were also Significant deterunt.
Stern sucks... Just not as bad JJp

Someday you're going to wake up and realize all of this negativity and crying in your soup was a complete waste of time. Life is insanely short. Stop building walls and enjoy it.

Take solace that everyone’s in the same boat. Except 1/2 are rowing one way, others are rowing the other way.

Alert!!!
Pinside selling All Pins Over what is sensible price! (WISP)

Now reconcile these two threads. The reason for the additional IRS auditors (and the mandatory reporting of transactions over $600) is so that they can tell that you bought that pin and didn't pay tax. The entire motivation for the additional IRS auditors is to make sure we get taxed. The writing is on the wall.

So basically people that were on a "list" and told that all the premiums were "sold out" were lied to. Distributors are basically hording certain titles so they can gouge customers after lying to them

That is what I am a bit afraid of when I eventually upgrade my vehicle. I am spending XXX to get fancy new features, I just want them to work. I remember my wife's friend bought a new vehicle and the bluetooth connection was just crap. This is stuff that is worked out on discount wireless speakers but not a $40,000 purchase? Come on.

But glad there is some advantages too; if you use your car for work and need your phone at points, having that built into the car (and thankfully work ) seems like a big win!

I might be tempted to join the crybaby club, but I've come to accept that a doubling of the money supply during a fall in production/productivity means a jump in price. It's not rocket science. If your income is "fixed", you're going to have to make cuts. If your income is based in investments, it's just another temporary little boo hoo. You should all see the writing on the wall. If or when RE prices implode, machines will selling for peanuts. We are all watching the later stages of MMT where the bubble is stretched mighty thin.

I'm a little surprised you boomers can't see the writing on the wall, but of course that might take a bit of introspection. Why start now?

Screenshot from 2021-12-02 08-55-58 (resized).png

I can't help people who don't understand the problem.
Forcing distributors out who had years of history ( total shit move )
Forcing distros to cancel orders because they want to throttle number of games Distros get ( dick move )
Now - opening up new Distribution networks after cutting ties with others and limiting games of those that built this hobby ( super dick move )

Seems that I'd want the A list distributors to continue to sell games and as many as they can and support the people growing the hobby.

Pricing games over Manufacturers Price - Survival mode.. So who's to blame (stern)<--- What recourse do distros have to keep doors open when games are not flowing in.

Why haven't they increased production instead? Pretty sure they could figure it out.