Quoted from PoMC:Why the HELL would anyone wanna be a pinball distributor and deal with the numerous assholes who flex with a NIB pinball machine?
.
Because...
Quoted from PoMC:....but BUY BUY BUY!
Quoted from PoMC:Why the HELL would anyone wanna be a pinball distributor and deal with the numerous assholes who flex with a NIB pinball machine?
.
Because...
Quoted from PoMC:....but BUY BUY BUY!
Quoted from PoMC:Why the HELL would anyone wanna be a pinball distributor and deal with the numerous assholes who flex with a NIB pinball machine?
Shipping box has a crease in it? Holy shit! Alert pinside with a thread asking what to do....after already accepting delivery.
250 more LEs being made after you bought yours? Alert Pinside to bitch and complain. But keep on buying of course.
Complain, complain, complain....but BUY BUY BUY!
Distros should bleed every last cent from them.
I'm hoping for $20K+ LEs in the next 2 years. Let's see how far this rocket goes!
I vote with my wallet.
Scarcity upcharge on a brand new product with built in profit margins is a sign of short term thinking, it will bite them in the end.
Quoted from HOOKED:I vote with my wallet.
Scarcity upcharge on a brand new product with built in profit margins is a sign of short term thinking, it will bite them in the end.
What's the margin on your $22.5k Ghostbusters for sale?
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:What's the margin on your $22.5k Ghostbusters for sale?
Oof, it would take a special imbecile to buy that.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:What's the margin on your $22.5k Ghostbusters for sale?
To be fair, we’re talking about brand new products with a built in profit margin (as Hooked said). That’s quite a bit different than selling on the second hand market.
Quoted from IdahoRealtor:What's the margin on your $22.5k Ghostbusters for sale?
Don't forget the topper sales markup too.
Although we're in the thick of this mess and it feels ridiculous; remember our economy is cyclical. Once we transition from non-standard conditions, take note of the distributors who were fair and treated folks with integrity. There are several out there and those folks will continue to earn my business now and long into the future.
The folks that are driving this inflated mess, leveraging ADM at every corner possible and not keeping their word - not so much.
Quoted from delt31:Here’s the real question - why do companies like Stern or jjp even need distributors anymore?
Currently Stern gets all the credit and none of the blame. Distribution brings them to shows, takes all service calls, complaints, orders, and pays up front in advance making every single game a sell out.
Stern sold every Led Zeppelin to distributors. They never have a failure, only distributors do.
Quoted from Waxx:Currently Stern gets all the credit and none of the blame. Distribution brings them to shows, takes all service calls, complaints, orders, and pays up front in advance making every single game a sell out.
Stern sold every Led Zeppelin to distributors. They never have a failure, only distributors do.
The “failure” of Zep in any capacity is a total pinside construct myth. If distributors didn’t want them, why are they currently being produced? If distributors are sitting on them, why aren’t they available via IFPA discount?
It’s Munsters all over again.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The “failure” of Zep in any capacity is a total pinside construct myth. If distributors didn’t want them, why are they currently being produced? If distributors are sitting on them, why aren’t they available via IFPA discount?
It’s Munsters all over again.
Failure by comparison. Every distributor I check has LZ Premium and Pro available and at a discount. I’m not constructing that.
Quoted from Waxx:Every distributor I check has LZ Premium and Pro available and at a discount. I’m not constructing that.
Discount? Please pm me a distributor.
I miss having Zep around.
Every game for the most part are the same individuals flipping and we know who they are. Why don't we get mad at them instead of attacking distros.
Quoted from Mrawesome44:Every game for the most part are the same individuals flipping and we know who they are. Why don't we get mad at them instead of attacking distros.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/for-sale-godzilla-premium-3
Quoted from JakePG:Wonder if stern is considering offshore the building of machines to pump more out and to accommodate the increase in distributors
If they outsource to China, they'll have clones of their pins being sold all over the world at a fraction of the cost within a year. While that'd be great for us, it wouldn't be all that great for Stern . Moreover, they'll have a tough time getting them unloaded from ships for the foreseeable future. It sucks that China doesn't seem to give a damn about IP rights ... it'd be a solid way to take care of the Australian market right now.
I'd look into manufacturing in Northern Ireland like Atari used to do ... seems like it'd be easier for them to take care of the European market building there. Shipping costs would be cut drastically and I believe there wouldn't be any threats of tariffs since the machines would be manufactured in Europe. Eastern Europe is another possibility.
This shortage of pins is more than likely due to the semiconductor shortage. I know for a fact that the CPU they're using is tough to get right now. Memory was a problem for a while there. The 5V regulators used on their node boards are starting to dry up (just had one blow up on a Star Wars that I'll be repairing). It's a mess out there if you design electronics. I can't get a single frigging FPGA unless its on a development board!!!! Companies don't even want to hear from you unless you're buying large quantities (Stern wouldn't be a "large quantity" customer if they used FPGAs ... some of the companies I work with are pretty large and they're getting the "sorry, not sorry" treatment!!!).
Finally, distributors have every right to mark their pins up. They're taking on all of the risk in that these pins need to be transported from Chicago to points all over the planet. If the pin is damaged from Chicago, the distributor, not Stern, is on the hook when it comes to rectifying the situation. Those that flip the pins are basically using distributors to hold the games for the most part before they find a home for it at the inflated price. I'd be pretty pissed off about that personally and don't blame them for jacking up the price.
Quoted from playtwowin:Most other industries that have a distributor network are regulated. Pretty sure the manufacturers know how and where to price their products for sale. I have seen distributors for other products outside of pinball make consumers feel a certain product is priced too high and choose another manufacturer or product all together. Just saying slippery slope.
CGC doesn’t think their dealers should be. They have asked to report any dealer selling above MSRP.
Quoted from Vino:Discount? Please pm me a distributor.
I miss having Zep around.
I have had Pros offered to me for 5800 with free shipping. Every other pro is commanding over 6K used.
I can order LZ Premium off Cointaker without talking to anyone for 7500 free shipping after credit card rebate.
Or buy this one used:
Here's to pinflation.
Quoted from Waxx:I have had Pros offered to me for 5800 with free shipping. Every other pro is commanding over 6K used.
I can order LZ Premium off Cointaker without talking to anyone for 7500 free shipping after credit card rebate.
Or buy this one used:
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/123047
Let me know when they have any interesting titles available at that price.
If demand is greater than supply and the retail price does not go up you get scalpers since they know there is a built in premium for anyone who can get their hands on a unit. If you have the capital to buy machines it's free money, just like video card and PS5 scalping.
I think I'd rather pay the distro the extra than some scalper.
Quoted from t2000:CGC doesn’t think their dealers should be. They have asked to report any dealer selling above MSRP.
Flippers rejoice!
Quoted from Flyfalcons:Flippers rejoice!
This with a way of making sure people aren't ordering in bulk is the way to go. You can take precautions to avoid flippers.
Quoted from t2000:CGC doesn’t think their dealers should be. They have asked to report any dealer selling above MSRP.
But that doesn't stop them from charging a ton for shipping. Flipnout charging $500 for freight which is way more than all others I've seen
Quoted from JakePG:But that doesn't stop them from charging a ton for shipping. Flipnout charging $500 for freight which is way more than all others I've seen
Freight prices are crazy right now. They are up and down daily.
Just ordered 3 pallets of stuff to one of my businesses. Not insured low value bulk items. 1,600 That would be 533.00 per palet and this is no insurance low value bulk items. Everything is crazy right now.
Quoted from Zdoor:Not likely to be a popular opinion But since I no longer distribute, ill say what many dists feel.
Having been a distributor, you are regulated on how low a price a pin could be sold for. You have to eat profits on slow movers or games which don’t sell and since you can’t sell below the agreed price, you may have to hold inventory on unpopular games for a long time to recover the investment.
Margins on pins are low and customer expectations are high. God forbid there is damage in shipping. While those are covered under insurance, I never had a scenario where that happened and didn’t cost a bunch to remedy one way or the other, often eating a big chunk of profits from a batch of sales. Not to mention the HUGE amount of time those damaged games eat up trying to get to a resolution with the carrier.
Having sold many pins to customers who never took possession and then flipped for far more profit than I as a distributor, it was extremely aggravating especially the last few years I was distributing. It became common to see this happen when the pin market jumped, with almost 25-30% of sales being flipped by the original buyer prior to receiving. It required time and effort to make changes to orders so a person with a small deposit on a pin could flip to someone else for more profit. Rarely did the buyer agree to a “service fee” for this effort without a mountain of bitching. The distributor is stuck with the service, support and warranty claims and yes warranty claims costs distros money. It was extremely frustrating. I don’t begrudge any dists who are now taking that profit for themselves. They have staff, overhead, the usual business expenses and deserve the profit more than someone who put a deposit down and flipped without ever receiving IMO.
Ok. Enough said. Flame away…
Great post… I think this settles it, but with one caveat. I think distributors should take care of good customers. The ones who are not flipping, buy what they say they will buy, and are loyal to the distributor.
Quoted from NC_Pin:Great post… I think this settles it, but with one caveat. I think distributors should take care of good customers. The ones who are not flipping, buy what they say they will buy, and are loyal to the distributor.
agreed. but just imagine for one moment that you're a distributor with 200-300 customers who you've built that personal relationship with. and all of them tell you that they want the machine for personal use, to keep, it's bolted to the floor....
some of them are telling the truth. some of them are lying. some of them don't decide until after the game arrives, and all the reviews have been posted. and with each title, which customer is which, changes.
now try taking care of only the "good" customers.
"Aren’t the oil companies limiting supply to keep their prices higher? All companies are now learning that profit margins can now be higher on a per unit basis while selling fewer units."
I'm always amazed at how people who have zero knowledge of the oil industry make assumptions and claims like the one above. Straight off CNN or MSNBC. Oil companies don't limit supply; by and large their business model is squarely based on one concept - selling as much as they can, all the time. In general, their only limit is the market demand and the capacity of their units. They make money on the margin once their (massive) operating and capital costs are covered. Put another way, they make money running wide open, around the clock. Downtime and reduced output are profit killers.
Who does benefit from limiting supply? People who actually control/own the oil, like OPEC. Or people who have a vested interest in seeing oil falter, like the shortsighted and ignorant 'green' crowd.
If you look at the intense capital costs, technology costs, labor costs, safety costs, and meddlesome government regulation.....it's a miracle anyone would choose to be in the oil business. Do they make money? Sure. They deserve to. It's one of the most difficult industries in the world.
As for pinball, like cars, the consumer is not able to buy directly from the maker. So that implies a level of respectability is required on the part of the distributor (or car dealer). If Stern were smart...they'd raise their MSRP to absorb the added price levels that distributors are adding. But it's also possible Stern looks at these times as 'bonus time' for their distributors and is content.
Quoted from GregCon:"Aren’t the oil companies limiting supply to keep their prices higher? All companies are now learning that profit margins can now be higher on a per unit basis while selling fewer units."
I'm always amazed at how people who have zero knowledge of the oil industry make assumptions and claims like the one above. Straight off CNN or MSNBC. Oil companies don't limit supply; by and large their business model is squarely based on one concept - selling as much as they can, all the time. In general, their only limit is the market demand and the capacity of their units. They make money on the margin once their (massive) operating and capital costs are covered. Put another way, they make money running wide open, around the clock. Downtime and reduced output are profit killers.
Who does benefit from limiting supply? People who actually control/own the oil, like OPEC. Or people who have a vested interest in seeing oil falter, like the shortsighted and ignorant 'green' crowd.
If you look at the intense capital costs, technology costs, labor costs, safety costs, and meddlesome government regulation.....it's a miracle anyone would choose to be in the oil business. Do they make money? Sure. They deserve to. It's one of the most difficult industries in the world.
As for pinball, like cars, the consumer is not able to buy directly from the maker. So that implies a level of respectability is required on the part of the distributor (or car dealer). If Stern were smart...they'd raise their MSRP to absorb the added price levels that distributors are adding. But it's also possible Stern looks at these times as 'bonus time' for their distributors and is content.
His statement was not incorrect. American, Canadian, and European oil companies produce as much as possible. Government run oil companies, such as Saudi Aramco, Lukoil, Rosneft, PDSVA, and some others are run by countries that make-up OPEC and they very much limit supply. Saudi Aramco, by themselves can almost single-handedly manipulate the market since they produce 5x the amount of oil as ExxonMobil.
Quoted from bigehrl:agreed. but just imagine for one moment that you're a distributor with 200-300 customers who you've built that personal relationship with. and all of them tell you that they want the machine for personal use, to keep, it's bolted to the floor....
some of them are telling the truth. some of them are lying. some of them don't decide until after the game arrives, and all the reviews have been posted. and with each title, which customer is which, changes.
now try taking care of only the "good" customers.
Never said it would be easy and you might not be able to please them all, but just like wedding receptions have an "A" list then a "B" list they probably have some that are more preferred than others. I am not saying I am on an A list or a B list, but if someone has been buying games from me for years, with prompt payment and few headaches I'd try to prioritize their happiness over someone who had been price shopping for the same amount of time.
Quoted from bigehrl:everyone's a capitalist, 'til it costs them money.
This! Apparently the only people who shouldn’t benefit and cash in on the spike in popularity of this hobby are the manufacturers and distributors? So many people screaming “thieves!” are also selling $7000 Whirlwinds or $1200 toppers.
Quoted from JohnTTwo:Having dyslexia and being older and successful I sit back and am able to laugh at those who ridicule me on grammer e on purpose.
Please help me get a metallica premium at MSRP.
Nobody can help you, because straight up, this is a stupid request in the current market. You want one at MSRP? Go back in time and become a distro. There's your only way that's going to happen.
Can't be THAT successful, or you wouldn't be on here wasting your time whinging about paying over MSRP on a game that's been out of production for 3 years.
Quoted from JakePG:But that doesn't stop them from charging a ton for shipping. Flipnout charging $500 for freight which is way more than all others I've seen
You know there are other options to BUY, BUY, BUY if you are being fleeced on the shipping
A fleecing shill who would of thought
Quoted from Frax:Not even joking when I say I was basically forced to pay 8k over MSRP on a new 25k car a few days ago. And before anyone goes "Well then buy used, idiot!"....
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
No kidding. We've been looking for a while because I wasn't paying $5-7k over MSRP for a new Honda and felt LUCKY to find a dealer that actually HAD stock incoming (qty 1) selling for "only" $3k over MSRP. We got right over and bought it right after it came off the delivery truck. The lot looked like a ghost town with very few cars available to sell.
The used car market lately is even crazier with well-used '20 or '21 models selling for more than '22 MSRP in a lot of cases. Nutty times.
Quoted from PinMonk:No kidding. We've been looking for a while because I wasn't paying $5-7k over MSRP for a new Honda and felt LUCKY to find a dealer that actually HAD stock incoming (qty 1) selling for "only" $3k over MSRP. We got right over and bought it right after it came off the delivery truck. The lot looked like a ghost town with very few cars available to sell.
The used car market lately is even crazier with well-used '20 or '21 models selling for more than '22 MSRP in a lot of cases. Nutty times.
So why buy at all in these so called crazy times? Did you really need the car/truck?
Quoted from Brtlkat:So why buy at all in these so called crazy times? Did you really need the car/truck?
Well you see, cars are kind of like pinball machines…
Quoted from delt31:If this is all true and I’m a distributor that was just squeezed by stern resulting in less games to sell, I’m no longer selling at msrp either. Doesn’t make any financial sense.
EDIT - but then I think about retailers like bestbuy, Walmart, etc not selling switch, ps5 at higher prices. Def a complicated situation - I see both sides.
Here’s the real question - why do companies like Stern or jjp even need distributors anymore? You hate to think about it like that but with how cut throat everything has gotten, you have to start thinking that way. They obviously have the demand and a simple hiring decision to bring in house customer support or hire a third party to handle it solves the other responsibility of customer issues.
I wouldn’t be surprised if something like that were to occur if this continues. You already see stern testing the waters and selling directly to customers.
Our dealership has 20% capacity of earlier car inventory. Guess what. All cars selling 5-10 grand over sticker. Salesmen were banking $100 per new car sale. How about $3500 now.
Wanna buy used? Well, aren’t you clever. Also 5-10 over sticker. Pay up or walk.
Wanna haggle? How bout no. Step aside and let me sell to the other 4 people willing to pay.
Fair? Nope. Justified? Nope. Our fault? Indirectly. No workers means nothing built. Everyone wants $50/hour to sweep floors. I say good for them. We suck it up for awhile while they get broker and broker. Eventually that $30/hour will seem more acceptable.
I’m a master technician, 30 years going. Job pay is higher per hour by a landslide now with no training. I just want to punch 3/4 of these punkasses applying in their entitled zero experience mouths sometimes. Negotiations even before handshakes. Wtf? No tools? You work at Burger Barn? I’ll just keep fixing cars myself. Thanks.
Quoted from PinMonk:No kidding. We've been looking for a while because I wasn't paying $5-7k over MSRP for a new Honda and felt LUCKY to find a dealer that actually HAD stock incoming (qty 1) selling for "only" $3k over MSRP. We got right over and bought it right after it came off the delivery truck. The lot looked like a ghost town with very few cars available to sell.
The used car market lately is even crazier with well-used '20 or '21 models selling for more than '22 MSRP in a lot of cases. Nutty times.
I luckily have a dealer that is still doing the same thing they always do and I got a Bronco Sport for about 1k below retail. My trade was worth 2500 more than I paid 3 years ago and then they probably made 3k on that.
Quoted from zpinman370:You know there are other options to BUY, BUY, BUY if you are being fleeced on the shipping
A fleecing shill who would of thought
I'm not buying from there
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Why do pinball buyers insist on being so miserable all the time?
Too funny
Quoted from Waxx:I luckily have a dealer that is still doing the same thing they always do and I got a Bronco Sport for about 1k below retail. My trade was worth 2500 more than I paid 3 years ago and then they probably made 3k on that.
I guess it depends where you go.
I just picked up a Caddy XT5 for my mother at 2K under MSRP. Great deal? No, but not terrible in this market presumably.
Economics 101 is not something that is hard to understand but for some reason very few people seem to "get it". Pricing is not set by sellers it is set by supply & demand. Right now supply is down and demand is at an all time high for lots of products so prices are going though the roof everywhere. Why would pinball machines be any different?
Bottom line is expect prices to continue to go up as long as demand stays insanely high. This applies to pretty much anything - new or used it doesn't seem to matter. My question is where is all the money coming from to drive demand? Fuel prices almost double what they were a year ago. Housing prices are at an all time high with housing selling in hours or days at over asking price. Food items up as much as 30% or more over what they were a year ago, etc.
I am glad I am not buying right now except for things we need to survive (like food and fuel).
Don't expect this trend to change anytime soon but be ready for the crash when it does change. I have a feeling this entire mess isn't going to end well!
Quoted from Waxx:I luckily have a dealer that is still doing the same thing they always do and I got a Bronco Sport for about 1k below retail. My trade was worth 2500 more than I paid 3 years ago and then they probably made 3k on that.
Just ordered a new truck, no special deals except factory and military so about $1,500 under MSRP. They are happy to take two trade-ins if we want tho... (truck replacing old truck and wife's SUV).
Quoted from PinMonk:No kidding. We've been looking for a while because I wasn't paying $5-7k over MSRP for a new Honda and felt LUCKY to find a dealer that actually HAD stock incoming (qty 1) selling for "only" $3k over MSRP. We got right over and bought it right after it came off the delivery truck. The lot looked like a ghost town with very few cars available to sell.
The used car market lately is even crazier with well-used '20 or '21 models selling for more than '22 MSRP in a lot of cases. Nutty times.
I recently used a car buying service (Costco) and I was able to avoid paying over MSRP... The dealer told me that they were contractually obligated to sell the car at that negotiated price. They were not happy about it about, the dealer also told us that they were going to remove themselves from the program since they have no problems selling cars right now.
I saved enough money to buy a pin
Be Well all! Hopefully someone else is able to save some money this way.
Quoted from underlord:Deleted post
Do you really believe this nonsense?
Pretty depressed that my rent will triple in 3 months. Better sell all my pins!
I think we need a whole new sub forum for OT inflation rants.
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