(Topic ID: 304620)

Distributors selling All Pins over MSRP!

By playtwowin

7 months ago


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  • 306 posts
  • 129 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by tallkid84
  • Topic is favorited by 15 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Should Distributors be allowed to sell over MSRP on all titles? ”

    • Yes 115 votes
      37%
    • No 159 votes
      51%
    • Not buying NIB titles. 36 votes
      12%

    (310 votes)

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    There are 306 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.
    -2
    #1 7 months ago

    Listening to certain distributors talk about selling over MSRP for ALL models! We are talking Pro's & Premium's guys! This is already happening. Should Stern or other Manufacturers allow distributors to set the price of their games?

    unnamed.gif

    22
    #2 7 months ago

    This should end well

    #3 7 months ago

    Why shouldn’t they, regular end users are selling them more than MSRP used and likely won’t give you the support a distributor would.

    13
    #4 7 months ago

    I stopped buying NIB a long time ago so don't care. If distributors don't sell over MSRP then the person who buys it will just sell it above MSRP to the next person. I enjoy sitting back and watching people tripping themselves to overpay for machines with artificially inflated prices.

    10
    #5 7 months ago

    Most other industries that have a distributor network are regulated. Pretty sure the manufacturers know how and where to price their products for sale. I have seen distributors for other products outside of pinball make consumers feel a certain product is priced too high and choose another manufacturer or product all together. Just saying slippery slope.

    #6 7 months ago

    A price is the result of market forces; it's what sets supply and demand in equilibrium. Don't blame the sellers. Don't blame the buyers either.

    11
    #7 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    Most other industries that have a distributor network are regulated. Pretty sure the manufacturers know how and where to price their products for sale. I have seen distributors for other products outside of pinball make consumers feel a certain product is priced too high and choose another manufacturer or product all together. Just saying slippery slope.

    CGC was trying to prevent this from happening with CCr and Doug was asking for people to let him know of distributors selling over MSRP. They are the only manufacture I am aware of that cares about distributors selling games over MSRP and Stern probably loves seeing the prices so high since they purposely seem to keep items in low production like toppers just to keep the demand so high.

    #8 7 months ago

    CGC Gets it. They chose to set their pricing low so everyone sees the value. Walmart mentality. You sell more units when the price is more affordable. They did not keep the pricing low so the distributors can charge more.

    48
    #9 7 months ago

    Keep in mind, MSRP stands for "manufacturer's suggested retail price".

    No, I don't like when prices skyrocket, but if demand is way up and people are willing to pay, then why not.

    If you don't like the price then don't buy. Prices are high because the demand is there and people keep buying.

    People are instantly flipping titles for much more than what they paid with a distributor. That simply says there's still room in the market for distributors to charge more.

    I want a WoZ for $5k or less, but that's a pipe dream. So, I don't buy one. But other people are, so prices stay up.

    Do I want to see high prices? Certainly not. But what the market will bear influences the price.

    28
    #10 7 months ago

    What kind of business tries to make as much money as they can?

    55
    #11 7 months ago

    Why do pinball buyers insist on being so miserable all the time?

    The hobby is supposed to be fun. If it’s causing you to clench your fists and punch things all day you really should take a break or find a less stressful hobby.

    29
    #12 7 months ago

    Tried to buy a car lately?

    #13 7 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    Tried to buy a car lately?

    Not even joking when I say I was basically forced to pay 8k over MSRP on a new 25k car a few days ago. And before anyone goes "Well then buy used, idiot!"....

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    #14 7 months ago

    most everything has a msrp, it's been pretty much the standard for most of our lifetimes. It should continue to be the standard. Think what doug is doing is great.

    17
    #15 7 months ago

    When even the distributors are selling at flipping prices I'm out. This is not a money thing it's a principle thing. I would expect it from somebody on pinside or marketplace but not from a licensed distributor. Manufacturers set the price. If distributors want to have a new conversation with Manufacturers on their margins so be it. If I was the Manufacturer and I found out we were having customers not buy our games because the distributors are trying to make even more money I would be very upset. I also would be looking for some new distributors. That's just me.

    #16 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    When even the distributors are selling at flipping prices I'm out. This is not a money thing it's a principle thing. I would expect it from somebody on pinside or marketplace but not from a licensed distributor. Manufacturers set the price. If distributors want to have a new conversation with Manufacturers on their margins so be it. If I was the Manufacturer and I found out we were having customers not buy our games because the distributors are trying to make even more money I would be very upset. I also would be looking for some new distributors. That's just me.

    Manufacturers don’t set the price, hence the “suggested” part in MSRP. Nothing new in any industry.

    #17 7 months ago
    Quoted from Jaybird815:

    Manufacturers don’t set the price, hence the “suggested” part in MSRP. Nothing new in any industry.

    In many industries they do. In many industries this is a very good way to have your distributorship taken from you.

    #18 7 months ago

    Maybe it’ll burn them in the future. Maybe not.

    #19 7 months ago
    Quoted from Jaybird815:

    Manufacturers don’t set the price, hence the “suggested” part in MSRP. Nothing new in any industry.

    Not totally true here, as most distributers will at least claim Stern has set a "floor" for selling or discounting games. Although I agree distributers can and should be able to sell the machines for whatever they want--it should work both ways (i.e, distributors can sell for much more than, AND as much less than MSRP as they want). In other words, I think Stern should either be fully in, or fully out of the pricing equation, and today they are not.

    #20 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    If I was the Manufacturer and I found out we were having customers not buy our games because the distributors are trying to make even more money I would be very upset.

    Gary can't hear you over the months long backlog of games being made. The ones that sold. For the crazy prices.

    #21 7 months ago

    Don’t recall this many upset threads when years ago many distributors were selling below MSRP? Didn’t see many buyers complain when distributors were taking a bath on lost revenue trying to burn turd inventory when the market was soft. Don’t like the game, don’t play.

    #22 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    If I was the Manufacturer and I found out we were having customers not buy our games because the distributors are trying to make even more money I would be very upset.

    But that’s not happening. People continue to buy games. This just sounds like another sour grapes thread.

    #23 7 months ago

    Also your collection is worth like 200k now so there’s that. Maybe you should start the trend of selling your games lower than market value to make a statement on how you feel like games are way overpriced?

    #24 7 months ago
    Quoted from jrdjhnson:

    Not totally true here, as most distributers will at least claim Stern has set a "floor" for selling or discounting games. Although I agree distributers can and should be able to sell the machines for whatever they want--it should work both ways (i.e, distributors can sell for much more than, AND as much less than MSRP as they want). In other words, I think Stern should either be fully in, or fully out of the pricing equation, and today they are not.

    In general it is illegal for manufacturers to completely control pricing of their goods when sold by a distributor, retailer, etc. but there are exceptions. What most people confuse with setting a minimum price is MAP, which is minimum ADVERTISED price, this is allowed and many manufacturers like Sony do it regularly. They can't stop a reseller for having a call now or add to cart to see price that is lower than their MAP or it's called price fixing.

    #25 7 months ago

    A lot of things are going for over Msrp these days. Video cards for example for like a year and a half now.

    19
    #26 7 months ago

    Knuckleheads wanted to "grow the hobby!"

    Not really sure why. I guess so we'd feel more mainstream, less weird?

    This is the entirely predictable result.

    10
    #27 7 months ago

    No sour grapes here. I'm a big boy. If I don't like the price I can simply not buy. I also have a very good memory. Any distributor that is trying to hit me with a over msrp pricing I just simply won't buy from them now or in the future. Firm believer of voting with your wallet. Just wanted to bring some attention to distributors now selling over msrp on Pro's and Premium's....

    #28 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    If I was the Manufacturer and I found out we were having customers not buy our games because the distributors are trying to make even more money I would be very upset. I also would be looking for some new distributors. That's just me.

    Here's where you don't really get it. The Distributors BUY the inventory from Stern, those machines now belong to the Distro. They also support the buyer, so they don't need to contact Stern direct for issues. IF games don't get sold by the Distro because they overpriced them, Stern still made their money, so why would they care?
    They can't "sell more", the Distro probably wanted more than they got already.
    The Distro can't "buy more", Stern sold them their allotment.
    Now, the Distro also has more buyers than games, and everyone wants the game NOW!
    So, what do you think the Distro's next move is?

    The thought of customers not buying games because of price is just wrong, they aren't buying because there isn't enough inventory.

    #29 7 months ago

    I'm pretty sure there are alot of people in the pinball community that will not pay over MSRP on a Pro or a Premium... The LE market is a different story all together.

    #30 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    Listening to certain distributors talk about selling over MSRP for ALL models! We are talking Pro's & Premium's guys! This is already happening. Should Stern or other Manufacturers allow distributors to set the price of their games?
    [quoted image]

    Call them out so we know who not to buy from. This is a pretty vague statement. Was it one distro? Two? Is this happening across the board?

    #31 7 months ago

    I don’t know many distributors with NIB stock atm. Some of these lead times are crazy.

    #32 7 months ago
    Quoted from bobukcat:

    In general it is illegal for manufacturers to completely control pricing of their goods when sold by a distributor, retailer, etc. but there are exceptions. What most people confuse with setting a minimum price is MAP, which is minimum ADVERTISED price, this is allowed and many manufacturers like Sony do it regularly. They can't stop a reseller for having a call now or add to cart to see price that is lower than their MAP or it's called price fixing.

    Correct. My point was Stern's MAP policy inserts Stern into the pricing equation. In addition, although I have not seen a formal distributorship agreement, I have heard from distributers whom I have purchased from tell me outright "Stern won't let me sell it for less than xxx." Distributers who have good reputations, and whom I have bought a lot of games from have told me this. Maybe it's them misunderstanding their own MAP terms, and maybe its a sales tactic. Who knows. Simply presenting an argument it is equally reasonable to expect Stern not set MAP if you take the position distributers should be able to sell games for whatever price they want--or rather, the market allows (which I do).

    #33 7 months ago
    Quoted from beelzeboob:

    Call them out so we know who not to buy from. This is a pretty vague statement. Was it one distro? Two? Is this happening across the board?

    I hate calling people out publicly. This is people's livelihoods. I will always respect that. It has been said on podcasts and first hand experience with certain distributors. Just putting it out there to see how the public responds. Perhaps if they hear backlash they will think twice before making those decisions. This is just an open conversation guys. It's here to help not hurt.

    #34 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    I'm pretty sure there are alot of people in the pinball community that will not pay over MSRP on a Pro or a Premium... The LE market is a different story all together.

    If there are very little to none Prems or Pros around to be had, then in one aspect they are limited as well...

    #35 7 months ago

    the days of seeing a game before you buy are gone if you want an Le or premium pretty much.Roll the bones

    #36 7 months ago

    I'd rather see the people actually bringing these to market get the money over a flipper putting one (or many) in a climate controlled warehouse to help artificially drive up demand.

    #37 7 months ago
    Quoted from DeathHimself:

    If there are very little to none Prems or Pros around to be had, then in one aspect they are limited as well...

    You speak the truth sir.

    #38 7 months ago
    Quoted from Flyfalcons:

    I'd rather see the people actually bringing these to market get the money over a flipper putting one (or many) in a climate controlled warehouse to help artificially drive up demand.

    So, like, an increase in MSRP? I feel like a manufacturer recently did so……

    #39 7 months ago
    Quoted from PlanetExpress:

    So, like, an increase in MSRP? I feel like a manufacturer recently did so……

    A couple of them at least

    #40 7 months ago

    its supply and DEMAND - right now the demand outstrips supply so as other have said what do you expect the prices to do.

    If a distro can get more and the company - for example Stern - doesn't police them then not much you can do other than not make the purchase.

    As Mr Schill himself said on his podcast even the distributors are capped at a certain allotment so even if you want to BUY,BUY, BUY from them they only have so much product to sell.

    Its a sign of the pinball times and great that the hobby has had such a resurgence in some ways, not so much in others, like pricing.

    You see this all over the place now where a company limits supply, ups the pricing and makes more profit.

    #41 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    I hate calling people out publicly. This is people's livelihoods. I will always respect that. It has been said on podcasts and first hand experience with certain distributors. Just putting it out there to see how the public responds. Perhaps if they hear backlash they will think twice before making those decisions. This is just an open conversation guys. It's here to help not hurt.

    Fair enough and point taken.

    #42 7 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    Tried to buy a car lately?

    yes

    #43 7 months ago

    Didn't know that but I can understand. My neighbor wanted to buy a new Ford 150 P.U., one dealer wanted $3,500 over msrp, heard the same on other models like Porsche.

    #44 7 months ago
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    #45 7 months ago

    Well of course they're going to, because that's what the market can bear.
    People applaud CGC for selling CCr LEs under market value but what did that do? Now you've got $1250 machines that went in 30 seconds and people have already flipped them for $15k.
    If distros are selling too low, the machines get snatched up and resold at high retail. If distros are selling for MSRP +$1k - $2k then the market has a bit of a cushion and the flippers are the ones getting screwed.

    It's just my opinion, but I hate the way flipping works in pinball, and this entire thread is evidence that we're backwards thinking.
    Why should a distro, who assumes all the risk, has to pay for staff, rent, deal with customers etc. make $1800 on a machine but then the end buyer can do nothing and flip their position (not even take delivery of the game) for a $5k profit? Who exactly wants that? Just the guy making $5k on the back end.

    If you're buying pinball machines that you love, paying $1k over MSRP to get what you want directly from a distro NIB sounds a lot better than paying say $15k for a Godzilla LE on the resale market.

    Just my thoughts, but the ultra rich guys in the hobby shouldnt be making more to resale something than a distro makes on the initial sale. They're also the ones who have to spend years getting rid of Beatles machines that no one wanted.

    #46 7 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Why do pinball buyers insist on being so miserable all the time?
    The hobby is supposed to be fun. If it’s causing you to clench your fists and punch things all day you really should take a break or find a less stressful hobby.

    If you do find another hobby,make sure it's not golf. You'll miss how happy you were when you were into pinball.

    #47 7 months ago

    Aren’t the oil companies limiting supply to keep their prices higher? All companies are now learning that profit margins can now be higher on a per unit basis while selling fewer units. Supply chain issues as a result of the pandemic started the exponential growth of this trend but limiting supply has been a tactic of many industries for a very long time. That is what limited means - limit supply.

    As others have said supply/demand is the number one rule of capitalism. Truth hurts but it is the truth.

    #48 7 months ago
    Quoted from playtwowin:

    I hate calling people out publicly. This is people's livelihoods. I will always respect that. It has been said on podcasts and first hand experience with certain distributors. Just putting it out there to see how the public responds. Perhaps if they hear backlash they will think twice before making those decisions. This is just an open conversation guys. It's here to help not hurt.

    Hes probably referring to what Zach/Dennis talked about on the pinball show yesterday. Basically Zach was thinking out loud that what some distribs did with LE pricing will extend to other games as well. At very least he believes we will no longer get discounts below MSRP and free shipping will go away on stern games. I have typically paid ~300 or so below MSRP and got free shipping on my NIB stern games, but maybe that wont be the case moving forward. JJP games Ive had to pay shipping when Ive bought them recently.

    If stern puts out another LZ that not many want maybe thatll change from title to title, but most of the time recently their releases have been pretty solid.

    #49 7 months ago

    95% of the games you own or have owned were made in the last 5 years.......

    too bad they never made any fun games before then.......

    #50 7 months ago
    Quoted from mbrave77:

    Hes probably referring to what Zach/Dennis talked about on the pinball show yesterday.

    Never heard of them.

    There are 306 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.

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