LOL. I’ve been taking a bit of a tongue-lashing on my pricing thread because I dared say that Stern isn’t responsible for all price increases, even after introducing MAP.

Looks like I’m right after all. But I’m used to that.

(edited)

At the risk of further civil war over pricing...

Here’s a sarcastic / real question.

What, exactly, IS the “universal” purchase price “supposed” to be for Stern LEs, Premiums, and Pros?
MAP? (Minimum Advertised Price)
MSRP? (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price)
Some specific price between MAP and MSRP?
Over MSRP?
Spin the Wheel of Fortune for random amount?

And what is too much to pay in every region?
MSRP?
$12,000?
$13,000?
$16,000?

Is a $9500 LE okay, but a $9700 LE is absurd?

There are nearly as many opinions as there are buyers and observers.

Doesn’t this support the (obvious) fact that pricing perception is individual based upon many personal factors?

This has been central to all my points about pricing and who is responsible for increases or specific numbers, etc.

Once the amount exceeds MSRP, it certainly can’t be Stern’s “fault”, can it?

There you go being reasonable and rational with an undertanding of both the market and how supply and demand work in general. LOL.

I just want humans to be honest and say they love low prices regardless of how pricing negatively affects manufacturers and sellers; and they hate high prices even when it’s warranted by the market-determined prices and other facets, and they don’t want businesses making too much money off of them. It’s a weird competition, and most are sore winners AND losers.

The pinball industry and market is no different than many/most industries and markets that sell luxury items at negotiable prices that aren’t absolute.

The MSRP didn’t previously matter at some point because supply and demand was being met at the low end of the market. Stern, for example, instituted a MAP (minimum advertised price) policy for resellers that many wrongly think was the manufacturer driving end-user pricing. MAP is a standard industry practice that protects Distributors and Dealers from each other, among other benefits of standardization.

Now that there’s been 5+ years of huge industry growth, supply and demand has shifted constantly to where it is now. Distributors and Dealers aren’t in business to lose money or make as little money as possible. Pinball has never been this strong, and those businesses should make whatever profit they can while they can. This means each one will have a philosophy of how much is too much or too little.

There have always been “gouging” dealers and secondary market resellers in many industries and hobbies. It’s not going away unless the market goes away.

Supply and demand always determines pricing, low or high. The market is never wrong. People don’t like to be wrong. The free market is a pricing competition with strategies. Humans are sore winners AND losers, so most are going to always be complaining.

I’d confidently pay more money for what I want from someone I know and want to support (like ZMeny or Cointaker or Hemispheres or others). Price is NOT the most important factor in buying something.

As far as I know, it is. But MAP is a minimum that wasn’t close to MSRP, contrary to many perceptions.

The market is simply never wrong. Never.

I’ve gotta wonder how many here would sell at or below MSRP if they were dealers with a specific limited allocation of Mandalorian machines.

Would you leave the money on the table?

Would you sell all LEs at $9,199?

Why not sell at a discounted street price below MSRP?

It’s not a strawman at all. It’s me wondering how many have double standards based on whether they’re buyers or sellers, the latter making their living from negotiable sales items in a supply-and-demand market that’s an inferno.

And not all the ads on Pinside are for $5-6k over MSRP. Several are in the $10-11k price range. The principle applies, regardless.

Is there a specific price or over-MSRP-% that determines “gouging”? And what is the term for a “moderate” surplus over MSRP?

I’ve done that on both sides. Modified my own compensation downward when I was unable to perform as promised, and paid more even when a seller didn’t provide what was agreed and expected.

I guess I don’t see the correlation to pinball manufacturers, dealers, and a red-hot market with demand at a peak that registers on a thermometer.

Are you saying dealers have under-performed and should sell at lower prices because they somehow haven’t fulfilled their obligations to buyers?

In a recent pricing thread blaming Stern for literally everything related to price increases, the sentiment was that MSRP doesn’t matter at all and street price is all that matters.

Apparently, that’s only true when the market is down and it benefits buyers to have a discounted street price. When the market is red-hot, all of a sudden MSRP becomes not only relevant, but the threshold that can’t be crossed by sellers without being considered gouging pirates and thieves who are immoral and unfair.

This paradigm is as old as the free market and negotiable pricing. The market is red hot for pinball. The market is never wrong. Never. If it is, then bargain discount street prices from years ago mean buyers were the gouging pirates and thieves who were immoral and unfair.

The double standards are very telling.

Attempting to insult me won’t change your double standards, Captain Entitlement.

Let me guess... You’ll buy an everyday car at invoice, but balk at a specialty car being sold for MSRP or over. Buyers have always had double standards. It’s called greed and unfair principles.

Unlike “Jared”, I don’t work for Stern, and I think street price is fine when it’s below, at, or above MSRP. That’s because I understand supply and demand, and I’m not greedy for low prices when they don’t exist in a strong market; so I don’t take it out on manufacturers and dealers, etc. Rationality and reason are hard to come by amongst discount buyers.

Exactly. The market is the market and will correct everyone, including those who over-price. So far, I see the market supporting the big increases.

I paid $10,900 for my Mandalorian LE (shipped), and was glad I didn’t have to pay even more.

Other threads indicate buyers demand discounted street prices during weaker markets, but also demand limited mark-ups during stronger markets. Buyers are more guilty of “dick moves” than sellers.

Gotcha. Sorry I didn’t connect on that originally.

Doubtful and unlikely. Have you seen the layout and brief gameplay video? It’s likely to be somewhere from great to epic.

I getchu. But other than Munsters not ultimately getting the code it deserves, I can’t really say many modern Sterns have been total duds.

Did the $20k Monster Bash sell?

I’m admittedly very unqualified.

This is way more true than most realize, even if they’re thinking about it on some scale. 25% of all US dollars in existence have been “created” by the Fed (out of thin air as more fiat) in the last 6 months. One fourth!