“Step right up, and win some crap!”

I was never into the LE market but looking at recent used Stranger Things LE prices ($12-13K) around here puts in perspective why this Mando LE is what it is. Good lord whats gonna happen when Godzilla LE comes out! Its only to get worse with all of these dream themes people wish for and are now getting.

This is where the upward progression of pinball could get derailed…or maybe corrected…depending on your point of view.
If pinball becomes too expensive for home buyers, location pinball will make a major comeback (post-pandemic).
I personally never thought I’d ever have a pinball machine in my home (too expensive) but here I am, living the dream.

In regards to location play making a major comeback because of the price increases of new machines disenfranchising home use buyers, do you see non-pinhead people willing to pay $5/play on location? $4? $3? Because I don't.

It's hard enough to get people to pay $1/play or $2/3. Generally speaking, the public is still locked on $.50/play, as they have no clue as to the price of equipment these days.

But I absolutely agree with your statement that we may very well soon see the the current golden age of pinball slow its meteoric rise (as compared to itself...it's still extremely niche) in the near future as inflation rears its ugly head.

That is an excellent point. It’s dumbfounding that people have such a fit about anything more than 50-cent plays. Especially when the newer arcade games that I see on location are more money (tokens) per play than a pin, with very few (or no) moving parts and very little maintenance needed. Without an increase per play, it would be tough for operators to keep up.

I couldn't even imagine if that day would come for location play walking up to a $9k Pro.

Even routed, those games will keep a big chunk of their reselling value, no?

Depends how abused they get. .... It's amazing how inconsiderate people can be with things that do not belong to them

Shoot.....I just picked up a very nice original Iron Man the other week. It's got zero credits paid on it. To be honest, I'm not sure if that resets with code updates or not, my understanding is that it wasn't supposed to, but.... just in case.... I pulled the connectors from the coin mechs.

One of the dingdongs we have to live with right now is a spiteful shit, and will do things like block you in because you dared to park in "his" spot. He has 2 motorcycles and 2 cars in a house with 6 people in it. 1 car and 1 motorcycle don't even run...you know where the busted jalopy sits? In the garage, of course. I wouldn't trust that guy to not put a coin in the game if he ever found out it had zero plays, just to be a dick.

And this is in PRIVATE, not on a location.

And I still think we should look at the dealers selling for the 14-15 20 and not support them.

And we should have a list of the dealers doing this so pinheads can decide for themselves if they want to spend their money with them.
And a list of the dealers who are selling at retail so again pinheads can decide if those are the dealers they want to buy from.
And for those pinheads who dont care or think that the dealers should sell for higher because it's better the dealer get the extra then the flippers then they can support them.

I just think it would be good for pinheads to be more informed so they can support the dealers that have the business practice they believe in.

Funny enough, I heard yesterday that Godzilla LEs are already sold out if Stern doesn’t up the allotment from Mando...I’m not kidding.

I’m sure the bulk of distributors will tell people they don’t start lists this early or that they will “put you on the list” (or something like that to stay in compliance)...but it’s gone and a total sell out three or four months before release...or such is what I’m told.

Edit: I note from looking at the Godzilla thread that this point was already known by many. Frax made this meme, which is hysterical and I’m adding the photo now to this post.

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Hang on, I'm relatively new to this - I'm just learning how distributors receive a specific allotment of games, that there's lists of regular buyers that get priority (even thou some are deemed scalpers), that distributors can sell above recommended prices, etc.

But how would a game that does not exist yet, be sold out already?

I'll add that if I call my distro right now, and I give him 2k for whatever LE will come next (which he's NOT suppose to accept), chances are I wouldn't get that next upcoming game anyway, IMHO..

Also, if anyone would care to help me see the light, my distro is supposed to be the only guy I can deal with, it's a territory thing in Canada. Anyway, the only few times I wrote my rep, I did receive some fast, very polite replies. But that's it! I was never followed up with, never received instructions for the next step in buying a game.

As if I would email a car dealership and ask to buy the upcoming model sight unseen, and the guys at the dealer would reply they'd get back to me, but actually never would.. I mean, that has never happened to me outside of the pinball world!

More like they buy a specific amount of games to sell. They don't just order them or get them.

LTG : )

Correct, certainly not at MSRP...

Then, do distributors buy sight unseen from manufacturers, or do they wait for definitive orders after going through their list of clients?

My distributor was being a bit vague only a few short days to the actual release, I'm sure he was being honest, probably because of the lack of information he had been receiving from Stern.

But this was the case with my specific distributor, as it seems others already had way more information and games on hand, including prices, dates, etc.

Seems not all distributors are created equal or they do get treated differently by manufacturers. Trying to get at how are those 650 games get split amongst distros, mine sure didn't care to get my business, so to speak!

Dealers marking up brand new items over MSRP is gouging and bad form, plain and simple. Makes them look bad and makes customers feel bad. Do you people supporting this behavior enjoy getting reamed?
Also, buying LEe has always been a bit of a gamble, which is a big part of the appeal. Some end up being good long-term investments (see Tron LE and BIBLE), others not so much. If all distributors begin price gouging on the LEs then there's likely no potential upside for customers and greatly diminished appeal. It's short sighted and bad business. Any distributors doing this can kiss my ass and kiss my business goodbye.</blockquota

Agree!!!!

Agree 100%

That used to be true, but I think today's gotta have it now no matter the cost (people have had it too good for too long) makes it way less true. You see those divides in the threads. Many people simply don't care anymore, just like they don't care about their privacy.

Yeah, if you’re not already down for a ZillaLE it’s going to be uglier than Mando.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Stern upped the LE production a hair. Even at 1k they’d be gone before release.

I already said it in the other thread, Godzilla LE demand is going to be worse than Walmart on Black Friday.

so This is where we are now.
This means any thought of us owning a Dream Game Titles LE is out of the question at the norm price be it JAWS,BTTF,Godzilla,BigTroubleIlilChina and anything else .
Well Like O-Din i am Outta here on the New Games market have fun You all !!

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At least in the USA, the market demand is so high that the distros do not need to chase customers. If you don’t buy, there is someone in line directly behind you and ready to purchase. It seems very crazy but demand far outweighs the supply. Even worse, if you are in an area split up into dealer territories then they really have no need to put forth the extra effort to make a sale. If you think the pinball market is insane, you should see what it’s like in the US housing market. Strange times, indeed!

Good luck to you!

Happened to me…twice! One car, two different dealerships. Never bought a second vehicle from any single dealership. Every dealership I have dealt with never left me feeling like I wanted to go back. They make the experience suck. My experience with buying a car is that dealerships are only after your money. Not a deal where both can be happy.

Don’t leave out those that are in line with several distributors for the same pin. Taking up multiple positions.

Kind of the definition of business? Few really want a Relationship just a sale which works for me.

Not really sure. Condition is king.

a stern distributor makes his mandoLE bank deposit while demonstrating the games rotating upper playfield.

Meanwhile Stern are back in the office wondering how much they can raise prices!

Just because you have a hard time reading more than a sentence or two doesn't mean I'm creating a diary. You know a good point can't always be made with one sentence. Why don't you tell some of these podcasters who do 1 hour shows of near worthless content to cut them down to a sentence or two. Lets see how that goes over.

If you don't like what someone says don't read it.

After what we saw with Mando LE prices being increased more than usual by both distros and scalpers, I would be quite surprised if Stern does not raise the price of LEs starting with Godzilla.

What we are seeing are the beginning stages of hyper inflation. It’s only going to get worse.

Good news is when jobs finally adjust and pay proper cost of living you’ll be making $800k a month! Bad news is pinball machines will cost 4 million NIB. :/

This is kinda detached from the real factor that sets prices on location. Grosses.

Most of those big fancy machines in arcades cost 3x or more than a stern pro pinball machine - they aren't charging $2-$5 a play. Arcade pieces have been costing $5k-$20k for a long long time. Operators set prices for equipment to pay for depreciation and profits... not for the cost of the machine. The willingness of an operator to pay the price for a piece of equipment is based on how much it will earn. They know they will resell/turnover the equipment for its residual value before the game likely pays for itself outright.

Prices of equipment won't be a factor in what makes pinball viable on route - it's how much the operator can gross and his cost to do so. That's what killed pinball before... low grosses and high operational costs. pinball was cheaper to buy than the big shooters, etc... didn't matter because they didn't EARN. That's what operators care about.

What you refer to that is right is... hoping that high equipment prices would drive people to more location pins.. and hopefully higher grosses for operators. That can make operating pins more viable again.

Even today with the 'surge' of location pinball everywhere... it's still a passion experiment for most. It doesn't earn nearly like it's competition.

This is way more true than most realize, even if they’re thinking about it on some scale. 25% of all US dollars in existence have been “created” by the Fed (out of thin air as more fiat) in the last 6 months. One fourth!

Well my name is on the list for Godzilla.

Godzilla would be one of the DREAM themes for me. I’m excited. Someone might say well you know there is already a Godzilla pinball, yes but that isn’t Godzilla. Godzilla would never run away from a helicopter, or be taken out by a single rocket, or stunned by a submarine. Godzilla would never hide from humans or be lured out by a pile of fish. That particular Godzilla movie is the worst movie I think I’ve ever seen.

So bring on the REAL GODZILLA the lizard that destroys cities, kills monsters and is simply a badass.

The Sega Godzilla game is a fantastic game though, and it looks great (for a game of that era). Sure, it was based on a failed movie that had a lame Godzilla, but at least he breathes fire in the Sega game.

I really wonder what Stern will do on that front. Will they raise prices or significantly increase the number of LE’s available? My guess is the LE number moves up to 1,000.

Could you blame the distributers if they want to raise the price? Just take a look at the Pinside ads, people probably acting as collectors and selling then LE's for more profit than the distributers and probably the manufactures...so if you have a beef, have it with the community...BTW, cant wait till mine show up next month.

Just thought of something. The LEs come out first. If there are any issues the most expensive models will see them.

Always been that way. LE buyers are the beta testers for the premium buyers. Just because something is identified in a LE with issues doesn't mean it will get fixed in the premium. At least with the premium buyers, they will not be going through the frustration with Stern on the fix. It would already be a solution posted in the club thread for the premium buyers.

brst way to capitalize on that fomo money.