Yep, this exact same issue exists for me. I will not pay $10,000 or higher for a machine, it undermines me all kinds of ways on spending (it would be used against me on hotel room upgrades on vacations that the Mrs wanted and other things like that).

I was totally out on GnR LE at the $10,500 level, luckily I found a spot at $9,500.

I’ve only purchased 1 NIB stern from a distributor so i am by no means an expert, nor have any allegiance to any dealers. But i’ve been thinking of something. Is it plausible that this listing way over MSRP we are seeing is to discourage the Flippers and preserve LE’s for actual collectors or people who actually want the damn game?

I can’t see a flipper snatching up a 15K game where all the profits are eaten up. And i’m not suggesting they sell the 15K game to a previous loyal buyer. ‘Oh hey welcome back - no i’m not charging you 15K. That’s nuts’. Now if an actual buyer who gas no history with them is willing to pay 15K they won’t be able to tell the difference. Any of the flippers i know look like real people. Tough to spot. No Scarlett F. Lol.

I think many dealers are also collectors and don’t like what they see when the sell a game and before its even built it in s sold for a profit. And not because they didn’t see those profits even.

Could be way off. Just a thought. But i wonder what would happen if dealers refused to transfer ownership of a spot before its delivered. I mean its just a hassle anyway for them.

Instead of bashing a distributor who you obviously have never done business with, why not create a list of asshole flippers that have done ZERO work trying to make $5K.

Kurt (Hemisphere’s) busts his ass, and provides excellent follow up support if needed. I know for a fact that had I wanted a Mando LE that it would have been at MSRP. If you don’t want to business with him, then fine. But he’s running a business and earning an honest living, so perhaps consider that before spreading your uninformed opinions here.

I wouldnt bash anyone. Distributors and private collectors should get whatever they think they can for any game. The market is always right.

I just want humans to be honest and say they love low prices regardless of how pricing negatively affects manufacturers and sellers; and they hate high prices even when it’s warranted by the market-determined prices and other facets, and they don’t want businesses making too much money off of them. It’s a weird competition, and most are sore winners AND losers.

LOL I love his following and its impressive. I go to work and gat paid like what I assume all of us do.I give uncle sam his cut and I get to spend the rest of my money how I want, and you get to spend your money the way you want.I choose not to spend my money with a stern dealer that charges over list price.Its a cash grab and that rubs me wrong. Yes their is a strong and valid point that if I buy a pinball maching and put it on the market and make more then the stern dealer makes is unfair to the dealers.But one other pinsider gave a good example.Would you feel good about buying a playstation from Wallmart for $1500 knowing its a $500 item.Im thinking most of us would feel cheated somehow.So to the point of Hemisphere, hes the one who is selling a Elvira topper for $1700. Its not my fault hes doing that and I'm not saying anything that is wrong or not true.Other HARD-working stern dealers are not doing this to their customers and just sell at retail prices.Those are the dealers that get my money.I buy around 3 new games a year and dont want to buy from the dealers that play the market price game.You and lots of others have a good experance with him then its your money spend it any way you want.
As far as the buyers that are fliping the games has to be frustrating to the venders who risk the most cash and see flippers make more on a game that they do.I get it and its the same with Pokmon cards, Lego sets, Playstations,ect. But if stores like Wallmart Target Best Buy start playing the market and selling at the prices the flippers get then they turn into are a big part of the problem.

PS. Your idea of calling out the flippers is realy a good idea. Not sure it would work because people are willing to pay thousands over retail just to have a LE. I would think one could power coat buy a speaker system, inside blades,ect on a premium and have the same game experiance.

I’m sorry but you’ll need to rephrase this is a cargument; we only do carguments here.

I’d rather see a distributor make the money than a flipper.

Another point of view is this... what is the difference?

A distributor sells the game for list price, then the buyer turns around and lists them for 5k more.

OR

A distributor sells the game for 5k more and the buyer actually keeps the game.

OR

Stern just raises the price on LE about 5K then distributors are STRUGGLING to sell even half the number.

Those are your three options. No matter which one you pick you the end user loses. So best option DO NOT BUY the games. That puts the prices back where they should be. Or buy the games and keep sending the message you’re okay with it. There is no other option.

Does it normally cost $100 to choose your LE number?

You’re missing the point. He put a leftover topper going for stupid money on eBay. Great. You extrapolate that one item and assume that is how he runs his business. It is not. From what I know, he sold Mando LE at MSRP while OTHER distributors marked it up. So he had every right to mark up the game and didn’t. I have no problem with distributors charging more than list. It is their right to do so and I’d rather see them make the money than greedy flippers with no skin in the game. But I would also expect as a local, regular customer to be treated better than random people calling around. And I find this to be the case. So find a distributor you like, be fair and treat them well, and I bet you will receive the same in kind. Makes the rest of this irrelevant.

The point is there are many people who wanted the game to own not to flip that are left out in the cold.

I understand the distributor wants to make the profit instead of the flipper but this puts legitimate buyers out in the cold.

I choose not to get all bent out of shape because the premium is nearly as good as the LE. If I decided to buy I’d buy a premium at this point.

a shame of list of Flippers For profit on Brand NIB games is not allowed because a list would be easy to make to list all these Profiteering P.O.S
Taking the chance for real owners to get the games they wanted to own away from them.. Then DIstros can sell the games they got and when they are sold out they can check the Profiteer list and if someone they have sold to that has not gotten the game can be told that STERN took cut their allotment like they did me when METLE was ordered by me , But in this case just lie but rip it away from a profiteer and try selling to a Non listed new Owner. Yes the risk this new guy will also try to profit is there but if happens , he could be added to said list . Ban these profiteering $%$#& From purchasing Sold out games in the future. A list of these people would help distros weed them out / Keep the LE away from them. They do not belong in the hobby if it is only for mere monetary gain.

Publix sold out on my fav Food 3 times last month . perhaps i should by a case and start gouging people on Stouffers Chicken alfredo meals . Lets start Raising Stouffers Prices because they could start charging me 4.55 for these rather than the 2.99 now / come on all go to your grocer and buy these up and rake others / lets do it

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That's what FOMO is and what every retailer is trying to create to sell a limited edition. The flippers have sent a clear message to Stern and some retailers that they left money on the table with this one and they will likely respond with greater LE numbers and/or higher prices on future releases. Then we will have that to complain about.

He can sell the topper for what ever he wants. HE is NOT STICKING it to anybody!!! If you don't want to pay that price , move along!
Do you think that everybody involved in pinball is on Pinside?
How is a business supposed to reach the NON - Pinside crowd?

I have had several dealings with Hemispheres!
He could also have sold the Mandalorian for whatever he wanted.
But guess what, He sold For MSRP $9200

I have to share my story as to why I used hemispher as a example. I wanted to buy a Elvira Topper for my game and hemispher had 7 of then available on ebay for 1500 ish. I went to either Game exchange or Nitro pinball and found one for retail.So I thought next time I get a game I'm going with the distro that sells at retail.So by him posting items at stupid prices on Ebay you can see how I assumed he does that on a regular basis when he can.You made a good point as to a solid relationship with a distro and with the amount of people defending him he must be a good distro and doing something right.So one of my other points is it would be nice if we had a rating system on pinside for the distros so we can share those positive experances and negative ones so distros can earn our cash like any other business.I know this won't happen on Pinside but I think it would be a good thing for newer buyers.

Just to throw it in there , I have bought from hemisphere before , good people and decent pricing I would definitely buy from them again . Thanks

I bet you if you had contacted him when he had 7 available, and you had purchased your game from Hemispheres, He would of sold to you at different price!
My Distributor told me stories of people buying toppers, I know these people don't even own the games! They are clearly buying them to flip. Yea, They say " Im looking to buy the game and don't want to get locked out on the topper"
NO...... they are flippers!
If I was a Distributor, I would hold on to the toppers for customers of mine that bought a game!

Purchasing low numbered LEs or specific numbers does cost $100 I can confirm. Now, charging a customer an extra $100 when a dealer is already selling way over MSRP....that’s just another ‘choice’ they are making

The pinball industry and market is no different than many/most industries and markets that sell luxury items at negotiable prices that aren’t absolute.

The MSRP didn’t previously matter at some point because supply and demand was being met at the low end of the market. Stern, for example, instituted a MAP (minimum advertised price) policy for resellers that many wrongly think was the manufacturer driving end-user pricing. MAP is a standard industry practice that protects Distributors and Dealers from each other, among other benefits of standardization.

Now that there’s been 5+ years of huge industry growth, supply and demand has shifted constantly to where it is now. Distributors and Dealers aren’t in business to lose money or make as little money as possible. Pinball has never been this strong, and those businesses should make whatever profit they can while they can. This means each one will have a philosophy of how much is too much or too little.

There have always been “gouging” dealers and secondary market resellers in many industries and hobbies. It’s not going away unless the market goes away.

Supply and demand always determines pricing, low or high. The market is never wrong. People don’t like to be wrong. The free market is a pricing competition with strategies. Humans are sore winners AND losers, so most are going to always be complaining.

I’d confidently pay more money for what I want from someone I know and want to support (like ZMeny or Cointaker or Hemispheres or others). Price is NOT the most important factor in buying something.

Funny you should mention that. I found a few old BTC wallet addresses last night that were 5+ years old...pity they were all empty.

Stern really could have done 1,000 LE’s of this title and would have still been a day one sell out for them on this title. The theme is the driver here for Stern, they hit a gold mine of a theme.

Is the MAP program still in play? I see Mando premium being advertised for as little as $7,599 here on Pinside, seems like MAP is a thing of the past.

Why wouldn’t this happen on Pinside? Ask Robin to make this a feature, he’d certainly consider it if he thought the demand were there for the feature.

Hey Zach what is the process for doing that, requesting an LE number? Do you (as distro) have to just contact Stern? Thinking of doing that for mine ordered at another distro..Also, does it affect shipping time, meaning LE number requested machines are delayed for extra processing? Thanks!

Good question. You would contact your distro to request specific numbers. Some numbers are taken consistently for every LE release so Stern usually tells people to pick three and submit them to see if any are available. To my knowledge, this does not delay any time on receiving your game.

As far as I know, it is. But MAP is a minimum that wasn’t close to MSRP, contrary to many perceptions.

Amen @cosmokramer. Honestly I don’t understand all the hype all around this game?

I am a huge Star Wars fan, love the Mandolorian. However, the theme integration leaves a lot to be desired...a huge tilting mandolorian head mini playfield and a mega baby Yoda is the extent of the creative interpretation here??

What happened to thoughtful themes where there is a “world under glass”? This is why 90s BW are so amazing. Anyway I hope you all that do get one love it. Prices are crazy they are (in Yoda voice), but the joke is on the consumers that pay them.

You mean Grogu? Agree on the theme and integration. Feels like Mando LE selling out so quick is a sign of the times as much if not more than the theme. Seemed like LZ LE’s dropped for a while and now people looking for well above MSRP. Wonka CE’s sat, now at a premium. Going forward, this is the way.

To sum up...that is called shopping around for the best price. That is you had to say.

It’s a little early to say the theme integration isn’t there. We can all agree that BM66 had superb theme integration, yet no one would have thought by just looking at some playfield photos and thirty seconds of silent video. The theme integration will come in with the music, callouts, and video assets.

Lyman really is a magician.

TigerLaw sounds like what you are saying is the sounds and music (gameplay) effect the theme, which I do not disagree.

However the point that may have been missed here, and maybe I needed to be more specific was the playfield specifically. I was commenting is sheer presentation, design assets, integration of the intellectual property, elements they chose to use, scale of elements,... Giant mando head? Call me crazy here..

The music and call outs can for sure add a TON without a doubt, but it doesn’t solve for physical playfield oddities.

And this is just my opinion not to be taken as a fact. Cheers

There is an old saying different strokes for different folks. You look at some Pinball Companies they want 15k for every single one of their Mando's, however sell the Pro's in line with everyone else. Some Pinball Companies also has a warehouse and can hold these games for an entire year if they want. Other Distro's don't have giant warehouses and their model is just volume, turn everything over as fast as possible. Look at Betson their main focus isn't pinball and they try to cash in on every single LE thru EBAY... they have limited editions from two years ago. They'd rather sit on the game for 2 years and get 18k for it rather than sell it and make $1000 day of release.

If you're TUNED IN you're on top of this... if you're not TUNED IN and you want one you PAY MORE! Some people just don't mind paying more because another 5k just doesn't mean much to them. I think 95% of the real pinball hobbyist CARE about the price, while at the same time care about the value they can sell their own games. We can't have it both ways now... pay very little to get the game, then later ask twice what you paid. You'll never get every opportunist on the same page with you.

You just deal with the market as it unfolds and roll with it. In reality you don't see distributors jacking up the prices of premiums, so why not just buy those. What is the REAL difference... powder coating mostly. That costs about $150.00 to powder coat it any color you want. An autograph from the designer? Who cares those autographs are worth NOTHING... unless its Slash or Axel Rose. Personally I'd like to see Stern go back to Batman... get stars like Adam West to sign the card, I don't care about what designer made the game. I'm buying the game because I love the property not who designed it.

You can easily make an PREMIUM an LE with two simple things... SIDE BLADE ART and POWDER COATING. Total cost of those two things about $250.00. Boom you got an LE and you saved about 2 to 7k depending on how much this company is trying to sell you the new Limited Edition.

Here is the other thing are Limited Editions really Limited Editions when Stern makes 750 copies? Who knows the next time it might go to 1,000 they're not so limited anymore.

Get the Premium and make your own Limited Edition. Get creative and get the mods you want, order the topper, powder coat all for costs under the price difference of a limited edition. Just something to think about.

The mirrored backglass is, in my opinion, the primary difference. As you say, anyone can do the powder coating and what not...the mirrored backglass on the other hand, from the artist that designed the game, is more problematic.

Stern could sell a lot of after market mirrored backglasses with special designs, both to replace translights and as pure art.

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This isn't price gouging. It's not hotel rooms during s hurricane, masks during a pandemic or food during a famine. There Is absolutely 100% nothing immoral about it.

You all sound like a bunch of babies because you didn't get the shiny toy. Just the slightly less shiny one.

Who cares who gets the mark up. Distro, stern, end user. The market will speak. I don't see anyone crying for distros or stern when they release a clunker and have hundreds of thousands of dead weight on their balance sheet. Grow up. It's capitalism and likely the reason many of us can afford these overpriced toys.

I have never owned a Stern LE and probably never will. Just having fun wih these threads.

I always mention the cgi Fx on screen then someone shouts me down with who looks at the screen when your playing. Honestly you can hardly tell they’re mirrored back glasses when the game is one. Secondly as to the different artwork some people like Guns N’ Roses le artwork better than collector. Some people like premium artwork just as much if not more than the le. I mean look at avengers what’s the difference between le and premium.

Stern doesn’t offer enough difference between premium and limited edition. If you ask me stern doesn’t even try to make limited a lot better like Jersey jack. Sterns le should come with the topper Jersey jacks do.

This whole debate is silly because the premium is basically just as good as a limited edition. That is just being honest. Jjp on the other goes way beyond to create a glaring difference stern does t again just grab the premium

I lost count, how many LE and CE games are in your collection now Mr wisdom? lol Everyone should buy what they like and feel comfortable with. Why should anyone else care??

So, I’m a premium buyer, but the LE does have more going for it than just the powder coat. The upgraded speakers and HD glass are worth some bucks as well. All be told, I’ve always figured the LE had about $1,000 or so in legit upgrades, more depending on how you value the mirrored backglass.

So, this became true on TWD, Stern actually hasn’t done a true mirrored backglass since Avengers (the 2013 version). Starting with Metallica and on every game thereafter (except for Aerosmith) Stern used mirrored ink on a translight rather than a true backglass.

Go look closely at an X-Men LE, check it out closely. It is simply stunning whether the machine is turned off or on. Put it next to a TWD LE and the difference between the true mirrored backglass and the mirrored ink translight is striking.

Yo Bluebird, I’m NOT telling anyone what to do. What I am saying is if you don’t like the price of LE’s go the route of Premium. Where do you think I’m telling people not to buy an LE??? You always have a smart ass way of responding every now and then but this time its uncalled for. I agree with you buy whatever you want there is nothing wrong with that.

With all that being said its kind of ridiculous for people to complain about LE prices from distributors when many of the same people turn around and resell them for 40% more than they paid. No one is happy right now and that is just reality.

The people who like buying them to flip can’t because some distros want 15k, the people who’re watching those who got them for 9K now want to flip them for 15k, etc. There is just one way to end all those non-sense once and for and its probably coming... Stern announces new pricing for Limited Edition games at $12,500 how far off do you think that is? Who thinks Stern isn’t watching all this movie fly out day one... how much money are they leaving on the table.

Bottom line if you don’t like the price of a limited edition then a premium isn’t a bad option. I’m not saying anything else.

Much better.

I'm now happy I have your approval! I'm going to write this down in my diary! LOL

At the end of the day a premium just isn't different enough to pay $7800 for Mando or $15,000 for mando. How about Elvira premium 7800 or the new going rate for Elvira LE at $13 to 15k.

Think about this everyone because this makes NO sense. Stern puts the worst armor on the limited editions mostly lollipop but then come out with the coolest one for the Premiums that is powder coated a different color than the LE. WHAT? Why didn't the LE get the coolest one powder coated to match? HELLO!

So here is how this works... you buy a Premium Mando for $7800, then you buy the kick ass new rails, $100 side blades, 150 powder coat, and the guy who gets LE has to pay the SAME as you for the topper. BOOM you essentially have an LE and some might say cooler one for HALF the cost.

That was my point to the people who're pissed about the LE.

Now lets take JJP... their CE come with radcal, topper, side blade art, mirror backglass, playfield with different accents, and in Guns case autographs from the band. As a Stern Premium buyer they have the OPTIONS to essentially to make your Premium an LE or even better... with JJP there simply is no way. When you buy a JJP CE you know you're getting the TOP of the line that can't be replicated. With Stern you're only a few steps away to having something as good or better. With Stern there really is only TWO thing you're not getting and Mirror Backglass and Different artwork. Sideblade art you can buy direct from Stern, topper both have to buy, and Stern comes out with the ultimate side armor which the LE never get because the powder coat doesn't match.

Artwork is subjective which one do you like better, Star Wars Comic or Star Wars LE... whatever its not radcal so who cares.

Just trying to make a point.

The market is simply never wrong. Never.

Uh, no, those are still worthless.

If you have a Guns N Roses pinball and you have Slash and Axel autograph on or in the game how is that worthless?

I'm dying to hear the answer. Who would rather Batman 66 pinball designers autograph over Adam West? Who would rather the Elvira pinball designer over Elvira? I'm waiting to hear ... if you're a fan of the property 99.9999999999999% of the people would love to have those autographs.

It's all been said here already. Here's my un-requested opinion!

It's not the distro's fault for charging more than MSRP; Car dealerships do the same- and after all, MSRP is the "suggested" price. My guess is, pinball manufacturers selling to distributers are then reassured they will make a certain number of sales- needed to spool up their assembly line. Otherwise, they're holding all the inventory, and they'd need a sales team to ground and pound out each individual sale. Selling to distros (with a probable minimum quantity order) allows them to generate a block of $$$ for the parts and to pay the staff, etc. This is my guess anyways.

Also, isn't a LE by virtue of what it is (almost guaranteed to generate a bit of a buzz, due to exclusivity) the profit rake in each title's product lineup? It carries a higher MSRP of course, but, the price tag is clearly much higher than materials cost over the PRO model..

Now, a distributer asking "what will you pay for it" I feel is in poor taste. But- we get to vote with our dollars.. It's supply and demand- no different than cars really. And people willing to pay crazy money for a pinball machine will drive up the cost for some. I've always liked Medieval Madness for example. I certainly would never pay 20k for one, no matter how nice it is. But, I don't have to. And if someone is willing to pay that price, how can you blame someone for making a profit?

And- sometimes these speculation people get burned. What was it, "Sleep and Snore Ernie", the follow up to "Tickle me Elmo".. Dudes bought in container loads, only to be stuck with them.

Sorry for the rambling post.

With all due respect, it often feels like you are using Pinside as your diary.

If you feel the need to reply, a sentence or two will do. No one here needs a treatise.

Honest answer.....If you had a Mandalorian LE right now, would you sell if for $9200?

If so, please call me before posting your answer.......
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LOL, I wouldn't sell it, I'd play it, same reason I haven't sold my IJ

Sadly, our hobby has developed into an EXTREME money grab for some