Kinda like people selling their used or new games for higher than they paid for??

How do we control that? You speak with your wallet

Not true. I was at a dealer today and their Stern rep called while I was there and asked if they wanted 2 more LE’s.

It's because:

1) Either they can't afford it or
2) Someone else made money on it or
3) They didn't get one

We're here all damn day we gotta complain aboot something!

Well yeah, because the part he left out was #4. People coming in to bitch about the people bitching. If they don't care, why do they care enough to post and complain about the complainers? Shit..paradox.

da faq?

You think everyone has been paying MSRP for all stern sales? lol... talk about out of the loop.

Distributors sell for under MSRP all day long on Sterns... to chastise them for selling over MSRP and not under is hypocritical.

I still think we should have a rating system for venders so we know who wants to sell at retail or below ,and those who give good service and earn our money.

Stern dealers are doing the same with toppers, as a example
hemispherespinball
"LAST CALL!!! Official Stern Elvira House Of Horrors Pinball Topper - 502-7105-00
Popular Item 1 viewed per hour
Condition:New
Quantity:
1
Last one
15 sold / See feedback
Price:
US $1,699.99
Item location:
Hampshire, Illinois, United States"

Im guessing no Mandalorians LE will be going out the door at 9100 from them.

Orange County Pinballs has a Star Wars R2D2 Pinball Machine Topper Stern Limited 1 of 500 NEW 502-7041-00
Popular Item 2 viewed per hour
Condition:New
Price:
US $4,999.00

And they also a Led Zeppelin LE for 15k and I'm also guessing chances are good no Mandalorians LE are going to be sold at retail from them either.

And thats ok with me that their business model works for them. But because of the Gouging or high markup I won't buy anything from them. We as pinheads should go to venders who don't play the market and just sell games. KINGPIN, TILT AMUSEMENTS,Game Exchange of Colorado, Game room guys, This is just a few I know are straight shooters so to speak and they are the ones getting my money.We should have a rating system or list of the better venders.

If I remember right when the Elvira Signature Edition (I think it was Elvira but could have been another high demand game) came out Tilt (Trent) had a drawing to pull all the interested peoples names to try and be fair as to who can buy one at retail.
So again we should buy from the straight shooters, and for those who keep defending the venders who play the market, well all I can say is keep giving them your money,you should be overpaying for your toys.

You can't do that because the whole point to distros (in any business) is secrecy in pricing.

And those will be gone the instant the dealer gets them. Your point?

Wut??

Non sense

This is something I’m not understanding either. Stern made 50% more LEs than normal and distributors had a reduced allocation from their prior games? That is what they are telling people anyway.

I agree Stern should up their LEs to 1,000 so that distributors can get a stable allotment and not have to disappoint so many of their customers (if the allotments really were cut from prior releases).

Publicly showing what everyone pays works against them and their profit margins. Unless they are all asking the same price. How is that nonsense? It's the story as old as capitalism.

Just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents on Hemispheres since you mention them in your post. I've had nothing but really great experiences with them. I've purchased 5 machines (and many accessories) from them including 2 Stern LE's (JP2 and AIQ). In my purchases they've been nothing but reasonable, honest, and straightforward with none of the gouging or increasing you're guessing that they do. And on top of that they've also always been amazingly responsive and helpful whenever any issues or questions come up.

It seems not fair to jump to a guess that they gouge on pins just because they might have an increased price on a single topper. Might be better to make a quick call to them and find out facts about their pricing instead of just posting an assumption that lives in a forum forever. I wasn't interested in Mando LE so I didn't call to ask their pricing, so I won't comment or make a guess about what it was because I don't like posting negatively (or even positively) about someone's business without having facts.

I just wanted to share my experiences with them on prior pin purchases, including a couple LE's that were decently in demand when they were released, because I think hearing about an actual experience or a fact about a business is better than hearing a guess. Again, just my experience with them.

Because
1) price obfuscation is not the point of distribution (as stated)
2) they should never sell on price alone
3) people publish prices all the times in distribution.... look at any plumbing supply company page etc

You somehow confuse non-fixed pricing with countless other things.

A non-fixed pricing strategy has nothing to do with distribution sales model nor do all distributors use it. Thus to say the whole point point is secrecy in pricing is non-sense.

Just like car dealers... some sell with fixed pricing, sone sell with negotiable pricing.

Someone selling with negotiated pricing doesn’t want their sales history public because it hurts their negotiating position/power. Nothing to do with distribution or not.

Pricing model and distribution are entirely different subjects and reasonings.

So you're saying there's no price negotiation, despite all of the 'no one pays MSRP' comments? That is exactly what my comments are based on.

I concur completely. Hemispheres is great and working with them has been awesome... Pretty much the same thing here, bought several NIB games from them and many accessories as well, always treated fairly and never even a hint of dishonesty.

Jeff

Again... wut??

My post said nothing like that. Read again

I quoted you. Maybe you didn't type what you meant? I'm not sure why you are trying to separate distributing versus pricing, since they do both. Maybe we aren't talking about the same thing. Distros in pinball don't just 'distribute'. Otherwise you wouldn't have people jacking the prices up. The only time they don't manipulate price is when the vendors don't allow it (like motorcycle pipes..omg).

pinballdude1 Stern dealer has one for 15k Again buy one at 15k if you want it ,but when it come down to it why support a company that is sticking it to you to make a few extra dollars?
Pinside member

US Las Vegas, NV
The Mandalorian (LE)
Stern, 2021

PRICE
USD 14,995

ITEM DESCRIPTION
Mandalorian LE - These sold out instantly and we have one left coming Mid June Confirmed! Up for grabs , we are an authorized Stern dealer and game will ship direct from Stern New in Box as soon as released. Pick your LE # for only $100 additional if you like as well!

The facts are right their in writing or on Ebay??? .They said in a email to another Pinsider that it was Ebay fees,LOL . So in my mind, he may be a great guy and a lot of people seem to defend him, but his greed on a small item like a topper rubs me wrong and I will spend my money with another dealer.The other thing he should do is sell the topper under another name and not advertise he's sticking it to us like that.Its a simple solution.

You quoted comments from different posts talking about different things.

Yes many pinballs do not sell at msrp. Many pinball distributors also sell with negotiable pricing, some with fixed pricing. These are facts.
That was the post to the ops misinformed view they never see sterns discounted. It was also relevant to your post about secrecy- because secrecy is not universal in distribution (pinball or not).

People who sell with negotiable pricing do not want their sales history public because it hurts their negotiating position. This has nothing to do with distribution and is a simple point about negotiating.

None of those facts are the reason for distribution to be the sales model in pinball (or elsewhere) and does not link secrecy to the point of distribution (your statement).

Ask yourself why I would make that statement. You hit on the point I was making, but you took it way too literal and very specifically.

Wait... Your simple solution is to be dishonest while complaining about being treated dishonestly? LOL... Could you please figure out what you're actually upset about and then stick to that? I'll say it again, Hemispheres is an awesome company to do business with and I'll continue to buy my NIB games from them for the foreseeable future.

Jeff

At the risk of further civil war over pricing...

Here’s a sarcastic / real question.

What, exactly, IS the “universal” purchase price “supposed” to be for Stern LEs, Premiums, and Pros?
MAP? (Minimum Advertised Price)
MSRP? (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price)
Some specific price between MAP and MSRP?
Over MSRP?
Spin the Wheel of Fortune for random amount?

And what is too much to pay in every region?
MSRP?
$12,000?
$13,000?
$16,000?

Is a $9500 LE okay, but a $9700 LE is absurd?

There are nearly as many opinions as there are buyers and observers.

So try rewording your idea without munging different things together incorrectly.

If uou are trying to say people who sell at negotiable prices don’t want a sales history public... then just say that.

God bless these guys for having the brass balls to charge an additional $100 for selecting your LE number.

I won’t even have a discussion with my wife if the game is over $10k. Not because she’ll say “no”, but because it compromises my position that we need to save money where we can. If I was single, I probably still wouldn’t go over $10k.

What is lost in the details here is the idea of pricing for Product that is not generally available vs product that is.

It is not uncommon at all for prices of dealer inventory for games that are no longer available to order to go up if the title is in demand.

The problem in this discussion is people are citing those examples... and using them interchangeably with all game sales. This is why an example being cited is not representative of the buyers here saying they had good experiences.

People are literally comparing different scenarios

Doesn’t this support the (obvious) fact that pricing perception is individual based upon many personal factors?

This has been central to all my points about pricing and who is responsible for increases or specific numbers, etc.

Once the amount exceeds MSRP, it certainly can’t be Stern’s “fault”, can it?

Cointaker is always fair.

Your fact is still about a single topper being sold through a channel that does charge businesses fees for selling on their platform. There isn't even a pattern of behavior you're drawing from of them ever "price gouging" in the past or on any other items to make your "guess". It's just one fact about one accessory being sold through Ebay. That just isn't reasonable enough support for posting a speculation that they're going to gouge customers from greed in their pricing on any other items.

You're of course free to choose to do business with whomever you want for whatever reason you want, but it's just not accurate to say you have a fact supporting your "guess" about their Mando LE price when your fact is the price of a single topper that is/was being sold on a platform that charges the business fees to sell there. Especially when all it would take would have been a quick call to them to confirm whether or not what you were posting about them was accurate.

Now after posts have been made by me and jeffro01 attesting to actual experiences in purchasing from Hemispere's (even for in-demand LE titles), you're trying to justify/rationalize a mistake after the fact instead of just opening up to the possibility you might have drawn too big an inference about their business practices from the Ebay pricing of a single item.

This is apparently a pain in the ass for distributors to do, hence the upcharge. Don't know if they have to submit forms or what. I was once quoted between $300 and $500 from another distro for the same privilege.

Yeah, basically saying "I don't like they way they do business" and proposing a solution of them disguising their identity. Brilliant. That would be so much better. I wish I knew how to do the smacking my head emoji here.

So basically someone can snag an LE in all likelihood between $11k-$12k instead of spending $14k+ like the scalpers are asking?
What's the problem here?

True. Also it's not like these "offers" are legally binding. I just sent them an email saying I'll take one at $15k.

Bwhahahahhahahah.

"Hey...did you wager enough money? Come and find out!"

Next thing you know, distributors will need videos from each person claiming why they deserve one and should be selected.

I got a choice of available numbers for the same price but 10 and under were 450 extra.Doh

If I didnt have one at MSRP, because I have a relationship with a distro and we're 4 days after reveal, I would absolutely throw an $11.5k offer at the 4 machines and I think that would be enough to win too. I'd be a lot happier than buying secondary market. At least I'd have a fair shot at not paying stupid money for it.

There you go being reasonable and rational with an undertanding of both the market and how supply and demand work in general. LOL.

You keep saying this. I realize you got one at MSRP and I am happy your distro offered it to you at that price. I feel like these distros should get a shoutout for sticking with MSRP! But there are quite a few that added a 2-5K mark up despite enough demand from their regular customers who have purchased many games from them in the past.

Overpriced is overpriced, end of story. It doesn't matter to me if it's 1k or 5k, and for all you know, all four of those games are going to be sold for 15k. You don't get brownie points because they *might* (AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) sell at 11k.

Regardless, I'm not a buyer anyways, just sharing legitimate information as it came across. Paying 8k+ for a pinball machine is a game for you rich turds, not for me. You're the ones that have to make a decision whether or not this behavior is acceptable or not, and if you're willing to go along with it. Hell, I passed on Tron LE right when I got into the hobby because I thought it was overpriced. The fact that it blew up in value has no bearing or meaning to me...at the time that game cost more than my CAR. You guys that want to look down on everyone else because they're not willing (for any reason) to throw significant amounts of money into a toilet for entertainment make me sick. We *all* know that most LE's do NOT appreciate in value, at least not in the short term.

Also, you get the full support of the distributor since you’re buying direct from them.

I get that we don’t like prices being driven up. I don’t agree with making the distributors out to be bad guys or somehow morally suspect because they benefit from the market trends. No one runs to buy up their WWE surplus games sitting in storage.

What a joke. I'll add them to my list of "never buy from". This is absolutely ridiculous...

Jeff

In 2015 I paid under asking price for our home. In 2021 that's probably impossible, no matter what the asking price is. It's not just pinball, it's supply and demand, easy monetary policy and a few other reasons probably..In the past paying below MSRP was always the norm. The norm changes. It'll change back. Who knew the real estate market would crash and you could get a deal on a house 2009 to 2015? Anyone remember sky high home prices circa 2006? That was with 5+ % interest rates too.

If only you had bought a pizza with BTC 10 years ago and forgot about the change in your wallet...

I agree with this 100%. I think Stern knows damn well how many to make to maximize their profit, they do this every few months and you know they've been burnt by a few that they made too many LE's. They may be leaving a lllllil bit on the table but I doubt it's much.

It's kind of how Nintendo does business too, they only make what they know they can sell. It's just a business philosophy others may not appreciate.

My 2 cents, this price bubble is something I am seeing in the resale market, the housing market etc.

I moved last year and sold a house and sold a few pins so that didn't have to move and store as many, the theory was that it should be easy to replace the pins with the money that I got from the sale so that it was easier to store and transport the money rather than pins and likely I could have been in the same place (number and quality of pins). But I have found the pins have exploded in price somewhat (often) people asking same price as a NIB for a lightly used pin. I figured heck might as well get a NIB but then checking the distributers are out of stock mostly. So it's either just don't get anything or pay the going rate which is high. I might have even been on the lookout for a MM Royal at $10-11K or Tron LE at $12K or whatnot but find them now asking $15K or $25K respectively. I know maybe not what they go for but that is the prices being asked.

I tried to get a GNR CE on day one but waited too long (I had a dealer pull back my verbal pre-order) so that I didn't buy the ones for sale directly from JJP thinking that my dealer would have enough. Anyway after playing GNR that's not something that I liked so don't care that I'm not getting one other than if it was to sell for a profit. I don't like the gameplay or the rules.

Anyway on Mando, was trying to get an LE but didn't get it but I feel fine because I will now be able to play before I buy the premium, I like the looks of the premium better doesn't hurt.

I have seen with houses that 18 months ago houses weren't selling at top dollar but 6 months ago we listed one at top dollar and we had 5 offers in 2 days. I think this is similar to pinball where people see a shortage of pins on the market and a shortage of new pins and they will pay over fair price to get one. I think this is temporary and hopefully when people get out and go on vacations and have less money to burn the used prices will go down some and the dealers will have more inventory etc.

I really am not in the 'got to have it' mentality, I can wait and bide my time, I have 11 pins to play.

I'm not a doom and gloomer so I'm not complaining about it, but as you just mentioned it's happening everywhere, it's even happening in used cars, which I have never heard of. You can buy certain vehicles used, drive them for a couple years, and they're worth more when you're done than they were when you bought it. Pickup trucks are a great example, watch some of the prices on used trucks. They're actually appreciating faster than they're depreciating, even with mileage.

I think and hope it will straighten itself out soon , interesting times we're living in.

Hmm, ill send him an mail. Fingers crossed..

Ahhh yes. Another gouging distributor. Again I am happy to have a distributor that doesn't gouge and even attempts to weed out flippers.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/114766