Our family will likely opt for refunds on our Disneyland passes, but we can't do that until they reopen or at least announce the options. After more than 4 months, I'm starting to wonder if they're not holding back refunds because they can't afford it.

.

Our trip was planned for 8/21-8/31 at the Polynesian. I'll just be rolling the DVC points over to next year, or renting them out. We have tickets from undercover tourist. We've been told that the tickets can be shifted to a new date with no issue. If things are better next year, we'll go, other wise we try again the following year.

I personally don't believe that they should have ever entered China. That's been an issue in the works for a while.

It's funny, when this all started, many of us Disney fans thought they would lead the way. We had just become DVC members, and were confident that they would stay classy and do the right thing.

Now here we are, and almost every single move they have made has been a disappointment. Obviously leadership is lacking, and the old ways of running the business are long gone. IDK what the future brings.

I'm actually hoping that this process gives the company a swift kick in the ass. I think they've been going down the wrong path for a while now. Cost cutting in areas that need money and spreading themselves too thin.

Some of its political.....The Corp publicly stands to the left, but much of the local middle and upper management are
distinctly right. So policy,..... policy from the state, Corp in Ca, vs Local to the right.
Everyone trying to keep their jobs....Many live in Windermere.....Expensive lifestyle, and homes.

Its very messy right now as I hear from friends and family that still work there.
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Disney After Dark Star Wars Nite Aug 27 we have tickets to has been postponed indefinitely. A phone call to Disney brought some discussion that the annual pass might be extended. Or not. Its not clear.

Wrong thread. Post deleted.

I know he wasn't the best "ideas" man, but Eisner (and Frank Wells) were the best leadership team the company has had since Walt passed.

I know everybody fawns over Iger, but I personally believe he has been a f'in disaster from a long term sustainability perspective, and his poor choices, leadership, and succession planning will be felt for decades.

Iger's house of cards is collapsing before our eyes. Even before all this covid stuff started, look where star wars was... It's a huge mess. Iger's obsession with China is backfiring in a massive way. Hong Kong looks more and more like a liability each day. The company wasn't necessarily in great position before the shutdowns considering how leveraged they were, and now there can't be any way forward without massive layoffs and significant restructuring.

But hey... At least they have money to retheme splash mountain. Really shows where their priorities are.

Star Wars has been a huge mess since the end of the closing credits after Return of the Jedi.

Minimal Cost.....People have been complaining about it for years....since it opened.

How do you know what it costs? In all likelihood it will be tens of millions of dollars for each coast for a company in the red right now.

You are dead on. The quality of the parks has gone to shit. It is literally a part time job planning for a trip to WDW, even pre covid. Now it's even worse. Compare that to Universal where you can literally wing it. Not WDW, you have to plan like you're about to embark on an ascent of Everest.

People complain about a lot of shit. What's next, rethemeing the Hall of Presidents? Actually they f'd up when they changed Pirates of the Carribean, another useless move all to revise history and make sure everyone is 'comfortable". But those issues are a drop in the barrel compared to all of the other misfires. Just the DVC alone has been a clusterfuck for the last few years. Rivera restrictions? Now that isn't selling? Yeah, no shit.

When it was originally built, along with employment as lead attorney building Universal, That was my brothers Job.
My sister in law was at top of imagineering at the time. She heads HR Now, Plus we have some fellow pinheads as long time employees, as well as my wife and I meeting each other as employees of Disney.
When the ride was at the stage of Concept, and decision, there was much discussion, some public and local, on using Song of the south.
Changing Figures and sound track, while everything is already built, isnt that expensive compared to building the whole ride.

Rides change all the time, along with consumers.....Do you see the same rides as it opened?
20,000 leagues was a decision about cost and long lines. many disagreed.
Mr. Toad. The Emporium, Mars, Segway, and on...Not all are political, or SJW.
Many are to believe they are driving new traffic.
Universal does the same. Back to the Future Gone, Jimmy Neutron, Jaws, Ghostbusters, Twister, Alfred Hitchcock,
all changed for reasons NOT related to Politics.....

There is a lot of controversy on some of those changes, especially the Disney ones.

But I get your point. Fair enough.

That still doesn't mean it's not expensive. Even if it's $20 million instead of $200 million, the argument here is that it's $20 million they don't have to retheme a ride that most people love while laying people off. Is getting rid of a bunch of cartoon animals from a movie that you have to argue paragraphs to make out to be racist, that most people have never even seen or know about, just to appease a small crowd of keyboard activists that are going to continue going to the parks anyways... Really worth it?

Of course not.

Fair enough that in your opinion you dont want or like the changes, No issues respecting your opinion.
As well as respecting your decision to not visit, or to to go on that ride.

As far as cost, a repeated number from Barnes, at the NYTimes, are the estimate often quoted.
Ill ask family on Saturday about the budget allocated, if they know, but certainly they were involved in the Building and retheming of rides at all levels.
Regardless of that number. Ill respect you feel that isnt the wisest thing to do with their money right now, and Im not arguing or disagreeing with your opinion.
You are their customers, and as much they should hear you as well.

Its more like after 40 years here, when I see the thread and comments, I dont often share.
Disney is an illusion, a Vacation, a Money machine and a business in the community.
Sometimes its great, sometimes its not.
Its in our backyard, so to speak, and I have spent my lifetime involved with it.
I am sorry I dont see it as others may......Your time, and money for a family vacation.

I havent bought a ticket since 1975. Until recently, I would go in with family employees,
or as a Disney Vendor for my customer, now retired this year, in the Pearl Factory.
(as well as all the trinkets in metal jewelry for kids in all the shops, manufactured by a friend)

OLDPINGUY
I appreciate your post. I always love to hear the inside scoop about the Disney parks...I agree with you ...splash mountain at Disneyland used recycled animatronics from America Sings so ...there was that. I'm not sure how much more it cost in Florida

I love the nostalgia that are old rides but I also love the new ...and no one but Disney and it's employees really knows how many people were uncomfortable with the theming ...as far as the new theme : I am sure that a lot of young girls of color are going to be happy to see themselves represented in a ride at Disney ....it makes me happy thinking about it. zippidee do that !

There's actually a retheme in the rumor bin for the hall of presidents.

Gotta agree with exactly what you wrote Art, from the similar perspective of someone who has lived basically next door since the 70s (but on the opposite coast), and having been there somewhere around a billion times or so. "Disney is an illusion, a Vacation, a Money machine and a business in the community." Classic statement describing it exactly in one sentence. The bottom line, the desire to go there over and over again is immensely powerful, something I witness personally with the various people with annual passes surrounding me.

Why Disney(WDW)....because it is arguably the best destination resort vacation in the world. No other place transfers you to a different world than Disney does.

The Florida Parks are a nice experience.
Disneyland has become not so much of one.

The last time I was there it felt like a biker rally.

I miss the old Hall of Presidents show. Not a huge fan of how they focus on a couple presents.

My family and I are huge Disney fans. I feel like it started to go downhill with the introduction of Magic bands. In the past, you could 'work' and pick up a ton of fastpasses throughout the day if you planned and were willing to walk. Now you have to preschedule everything which is great if you are new or lazy, but penalizes the die hard fans IMHO.

I also liked giving away our unused printed fastpasses to strangers if we decided to cut out early or had a change in plans.

I was there the end of Feb (the start of covid). I found the people in the park to be way more friendly and the employees seemed to like their jobs more than Florida (keep in mind I have been going one or twice a year to either CA or FL since the late 70's so I have seen it all).

Don't judge me on this comment ..... but the crowd at Disneyland this year was not what I was expecting to be. Disney World is filled with rich white folk, rude Asians (as in live in Asia not just Asian heritage), and local FL trash breaking every rule they can. California was a mix of white and Latino lower/middle class there to enjoy a nice day at the park. No one was rude, everyone smiling, no one rushing and pushing, no one complaining. Granted it was off season, and the weather was beautiful, but still. Also, where are the little kids in strollers? FL is loaded with double wides, 6yr olds getting pushed... our legs get bruised and cut every trip. CA had very few little kids and not many strollers.

I loved doing that as well. Give a kid a fast pass as he notices how long the current line is. That was always fun, but now gone.

Well that’s not exactly happening right now.

I just don’t see the point of trying
To make a trip there now. Ultimately It would just be depressing. How is it an alternate world when everybody is wearing masks?

Yeah my last trip there with my parents, niece and nephew I gave some kids space mountain line skips on the way out at night they were thrilled.

No way - It's their Iger legacy that is keeping them going while Parks and studios are basically shutdown. Their issue right now is their drop in revenues - not their debt. They have capital out the wazoo... they've been able to pull in BILLIONS in credit since the parks shutdown started to help float things.

They will face massive layoffs based on two points that have nothing to do with prior leadership... 1) offsetting loss of revenue from shutdowns 2) downsizing to fit the 'new world order' of what the new landscape will be. For the foreseeable future the problem will be margins and just absolute revenues.

China is about the future... delays there are just delays in the future. HK is a problem, but it won't sink the ship... Salvaging EuroDisney was far more of a burden on the company than the HK partnership is.

The biggest issue is so many of Disney's leading businesses being impacted concurrently.. and with P&R basically being 1/3 of the larger company, there is just no way to hide the impact that will have on TWDC's overall numbers.

Meanwhile... the asset library Iger accumulated looks to be the future juggernaut in streaming.

Man I used to love those singing fruits at the Land at Epcot. Made me hungry.

I see that as bait for an Apple hostile takeover. The have enough cash on hand. I was fearing that when DIS was in the 70's a few months ago.

Tens? Try more like a 50-100.

The thing about the splash redo is the company can do things on its own schedule.. while still getting all the credit for the change.

The Splash Mountain projects are a drop in a bucket compared to all the work that was actually MIDSTREAM that Disney has to deal with. The shell that is EPCOT... all the infrastructure projects... the resorts under construction... facing their past sins like lack of Space Mountain redo... the multiple Cruise Ships under contract... etc.

Splash is more about fan noise - not financials.

Last time I went to Disney just last Winter, I think the Janitors were on vacation or something because those were the grossest restrooms I have ever been in, and man I have been nearly all over the World and I have seen some crap.. literally. Not just Magic Kingdom, but all the parks. Ewww..

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They rebuilt 3/4 of DCA at the peak of the 2008 financial crisis. Disney plays the long game with their big capital projects (including.. deciding to SIT on stuff and wait it out).

Splash mountain is a non-factor in the grander scheme of working out what is putting the business at risk.

The resorts under construction that may take years to be needed... are just examples of much bigger liabilities hanging out there.

With fast pass not in use now, I hope when everything goes back to normal, that fast pass stays gone.

not gonna happen.

It's too much of a critical thing Disney uses to push the 'value' of their onsite resorts. Plus, with products like MaxPass there are too many potentials for Disney to create bundles and values (like.. the club level bookings getting more FPs, etc).

HOPEFULLY... out of all this maybe alot of the "plan your vacation 180 days out" and "plan every day out down to where you are pooping" that Disney has been escalating for the last 15 years is scaled back a bit...

Big Disney fan here, went to WDW in februari with my wife and two kids 7 and 10, just a few days before all the lockdowns happened. First time they visited and last time I have taken them. What a hellhole has that place become. I go there to have FUN not to plan everything 60 days ahead, oh wait 30 days I mean because according to Disney I am not paying enough for the 60 day fast pass reservation, so all the good rides are already fully booked.

What is wrong with people that they are so willing to conform to everything a big company dictates them to do. I did not book much fast passes, only on the day we went to one of the parks and we did everything we wanted to do, but where is the fun in having to plan everything on your damned phoned all of the time. I go to a place like WDW to get away from that constant needing to look at my phone.

Also the lines are way past normal. Three hours to get in the Avatar ride, lines going through all of the normal walkways... For the money it costs they should limit the number of people that are allowed in. Again constant checking on the phone needed to see where the shorter lines are.

It makes me very sad to say, but we are not going back. We come from Belgium and going to WDW is not cheap for us. Looking at what you can do in a day in the park considering all the waiting, it is just not worth it by a long shot. To see the Fireworks you also need to look for a good spot two to three hours before the show starts. Not my idea of a relaxed day.

Oh I agree. Now is not the time to experience Disney world. For me I was expressing all the times I visited that made WDW a great place to be, now not
even close.

We are DL pass holders. I’m a planner and like to plan way ahead for our vacations. Eases my mind knowing what we are doing. My wife and daughters let me decide and they come along. But when we go to the DLR I plan the travel and hotels and what days we’ll go but once in the parks I don’t have that planned. I enjoy just taking it in and not caring what we do. We don’t use MaxPass, just utilize fast passes and we feel out the day. We’ve done everything so much if we don’t get to something we’ll get it next time. Our last trip was in Jan and happened to be opening weekend of ROTR. Planned the trip before they announced it. Even then we figured we’d try to get a boarding pass and if not, next time. But what I hear about WDW is that it sounds like you have to plan out all the time in the parks too. Would stress me out. The cost for us to make one trip with travel and to try to do everything we’d want would cost more than our passes to DL and we (when we could) make a few trips a year. Close enough to drive and get a cheap hotel. Before everything shut down we were discussing renewing our passes or skip a year and make a WDW trip. I think I’ll stick with DL.

Went to WDW when they first opened and many times since. I have watched it change to the point of being unenjoyable. In 2013 they were first rolling out Biometric screening which never worked properly and I was searched a dozen times in a 3 day period.
The secret used to be go at night, short lines, cooler than daytime sun. That secret went out the window and got mob-crushed during the Parade. Employees bitchy and shouting out orders, never saw one smile unless they were in character.
Glad I was able to see it at its best in the 90's

This is one heck of a “fans” thread! I love all the parks and so does my family. I’ve been going since the late 70s. Things are different, but it’s still one of my favorite places to get away and detach. Enough of a balance of nostalgia and new stuff to satisfy.

Btw I love all Star Wars. Period. The new stuff is great. I think that a lot of the complaining from us adults (regarding Disney, and Star Wars, etc) is not that those things have changed. But we are experiencing it differently due to age and experience. My kids still love every new Star Wars movie just the way I did with the originals. If you go back and watch them ( the originals), there really weren’t without flaws...

Like Disney World but seem to always have more fun at Universal. Avatar ride was pretty cool. Didn’t care for the millennium falcon ride at all. The Rise of the Resistance was cool but I don’t know if it was worth the pain to get in. Hagrids new ride was the best ride of our trip. WDW 4 day tickets are just such a good deal for military makes it hard not to do both Universal and WDW when we go.

What’s it like lately. Would like to go but the whole mask thing really turns me off. FL in summer sucks enough.

Here’s my issue with fast pass, I apologize if I had previously said this.

Back before fast pass, carousel of progress, tiki room, country bears, American adventure, muppet 3D, etc. would have no empty seats. Now, those shows are constantly empty, even when the parks are packed. Parks should be explored. With the fast passes, people are just skipping right over these.

Universal does it the right way. It has a very negative impact on lines.

You should walk into the parks, keep your phones away, and go right or left and start exploring. Not one reservation after another.

I still enjoy the parks but I think the last decade or so has seen quality decline at the same rate prices have gone up. I got my first Disneyland annual pass around 2007. It cost about a third of what it would cost now, and it was a better experience. Of course they've added things since then, but the overall quality of a visit is just different now. There's more people, longer lines, more headaches. Most people seem to have forgotten that there were basically no security checkpoints. You just walked in. No bottlenecks waiting in line several times before you start your day. No boarding passes to frustrate you early in the morning. No unhappy employees failing to hide their disdain for the customers. That's maybe one of the biggest things I notice these days. The employees used to be chic-fil-a level friendly and professional. Now they just seem like disgruntled six flags employees. I don't know if you can blame all of this stuff on Iger, but these are the things I think of when I think of the Iger era. Decline in quality, raising of prices, and a consolidation of everything in the parks to connect to some pre-existing Disney IP. There have been no original themed attractions started under Iger. The last original theme attraction was Expedition Everest, and that was started under Eisner.

All that said, I still enjoy the parks a lot. It's just too bad that it feels like they're past their golden age.

We went to WDW for 2 weeks in 2009, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 with our sons. Every year seemed to get more and more crowded and less and less fun. When I started going to WDW with my wife (then gf) in the mid 90's, we paid around $200 each for annual passes. They start at what, about $1,000 now? I realize it's been 20+ years but dang thats a big jump. My kids still love WDW and we will keep going for them, but it has gotten miserable with long lines for everything. Rides, food ,shows, park admission. I don't know what the solution is, but i almost need a vacation from my vacation when we return home from WDW lol.

They want as many people to get into the park as possible, so they have been making the offers much more attractive during the off seasons. I can remember going in Jan and Sept, this was the off season. Not any more.

WDW is a great experience. We became DVC members finally after so many years. The resorts are second to none. But the park experience is wearing thin. Many DVC members just do resort stays, which now I am starting to see the value in. Port Orleans is just beautiful for a moderate, and Animal Kingdom and the Wilderness are just marvels. But they are starting to lose focus. The Rivera placed right where it is just ruins Carribean Beach. Whoever thought that was a good idea placing it there should be run out of town.

We went to Universal for the first time a few years ago, and while it wasn't Disney, it was still a lot of fun and stress free.