If you are TSA pre and able to check your luggage outside you will be just fine as usual with half that time.

For anyone doing Universal, remember that if you stay at one of their Premier hotels they comp express pass for each guest staying in the room (including day of check in and check out). That’s in addition to the one hour early admission. If you’ve got a family of four it’ll generally be cheaper to get the hotel than to pay for the express passes directly. Makes it a no-brained to stay at Universal whatever days you’ll be visiting their parks.

I learned about that this trip. This is seriously good advice everyone. I will absolutely be doing this next trip, without a doubt.

I have heard the lines in Feb were absolutely crazy. Almost like summer levels. And February WAS the slowest month of the year.

My vacation booking agent told me that last week was historically the second slowest week of the year…it sure didn’t seem like it. I don’t think there is an off season any longer at Disney. I’m sure the remote learning and work from home and what not have contributed to that as people are just thinking about vacationing year round now.

I'm not sure about February as a whole, but crowd-wise Presidents' Day weekend has been a horrible time to go for quite a while now.

We're going to be heading to the Huntington Beach area late June and will be planning on going to Disneyland with our 6 and 8 yr old. This will be me and the kid's first time at any Disney park. My wife has been to Disney World in FL. I'm not a huge park guy, but this is more or less for the kids. Do you think a 1 or 2 day pass? Will that be park overload? What you you expect budget-wise?

I know a 2 day pass will be around $1200 or so for the 4 of us.

The genie plus stuff is doing a nice job of making the standby lines longer than usual, given the same attendance.

Yup. We had a DAS pass and it was still difficult to get things done.

Can't imagine attempting a summer trip anymore, that would be absolute hell.

That is not the primarily reason, at least I don't think it is. Genie or no genie - each attraction has a capacity per hour factor.

All of the hotels/resorts are booked as well and have been for some time. It's like due to pent up demand and that more parents are taking their kids out of school than a few years ago.

They could:
1- Mandate that new rides have reasonable capacity so they stop adding demand with less capacity to satisfy it
2- Create real demand in existing attractions through refreshes instead of just creating artifical demand by putting them in FP+/Genie+
3- Create capacity to reduce crowds by adding things to bring people to places to sit down and take a timeout.. like interesting dining and not just QS everywhere that just dumps people back out into the park. Open up all the dining and make it interesting...
4- Bring back activities that soak up crowds. M&G, street performers, THE TWO PARADES they used to have
5- Stop cutting operating hours and stop trading operating hours for ticketed opportunities
6- Stop inflating demand with upsale opportunities like the endless 'festivals'
7- Stop reducing transportation paths and bus volumes
8- Bring back parades and other draws at the 3 other parks (all of which USED to have parades and shows, and now don't)

All of those things should be done before they create even MORE demand by trying to add flashy new rides or another park.

That is in reference to the ride share systems that offer rides to the airport. Disney's service is no longer active - so that's moot. If you book someone like Mears you have to check their policy. They err to the side of early to avoid the crisis of making people late for flights.

'all the resorts are booked' -- but all the resorts aren't operating at full capacity. Until recently Disney still had full resorts closed.

The reason it's so crowded is because Disney is funneling people into less and less things to do.

Mears Connect hasn't really changed since it was Magical Express, they still pick you up 3 hours ahead of your flight time.

This is an interesting comment. One of the few things that is working well right now is it is relatively easy to get a table to sit down and eat when you order through your mobile ap. If they lengthened the dining experience they would quickly overcrowd capacity on that front as well…

Your points one and four would be helpful. Frankly though, I think adding more rides (by expanding parks, not taking away things from the parks) would help with capacity more than just about anything. Big new attractions will take pressure off the existing rides.

I usually hear 2 hours, but with spring break, it is going to be very busy the next few weeks.

Dining is constrained because they've closed spots and literally have taken the benches away from the park. There are very few actual benches to sit anymore in the parks - you gotta sit on walls, etc. Luckily the Tomorrowland planter designs had seating built into them or they would have stripped out that land too.

I know what you are saying about 'finding a table' and how they've been policing that - but the point is dining also acts like a crowd eater. 300 people sitting in Cosmic Rays is 300 less people outside. A dining spot isn't likely to create new demand on the park (like a new ride would) but can actually reduce peak crowds by being an 'attraction' that people sit down and do for 30-45mins.

Mobile ordering at WDW is a complete #%@show

For decades now Disney took was a plethora of options for entertainment and instead of having the benefit of variety -- they have conditioned people through marketing and pricing structures to be the folks that "Gotta do it all!" - They've literally been building the "Park Commandos" that everyone dreaded to be associated with and made that the norm. Instead of diversity of experiences to spread load and slow the pace... it's do more, quicker, and try to do it all.

Add into that reducing park attraction capacity and activities that pull people away... you funnel everyone into the same things.. increasing demand and crowds.

Right now in the Magic Kingdom alone you have
- no daytime parade (the stupid character things don't count)
- no nighttime parade
- no diamond horseshoe
- no aunt pollys or tl terrace
- no railroad
- no/limited street shows
- killed the muppets show at American Adventure
- stich sits empty...
- majority of M&Gs still closed

And this doesn't get into the reductions that were happening before... and the next attraction to open (TRON) has miserable capacity with huge demand.. and probably will let them close Space Mountain for a year+ shutdown.

Oh, and ticket prices are up, operating hours are down, and hotel prices are to the moon.

Disney parades "we are raising prices to try to improve the customer experience with crowds" - It's all lip service. They are doing it because they know they can get away with it. Just like when they started charging for parking, premium parking, seasonal dining menu increases, eliminating discount periods, etc etc.

Current Disney Management is all about increasing the YIELD it gets from every guest.

Right, the average wait time for all guests should remain the same, as it's still based on demand vs. capacity. But logically, if the same number of people want to ride the ride and some guests are "cutting the line" with Genie+, then the remaining guests in the Standby line have to be waiting longer. The only way around that would be if ride capacity was increased when Genie+ came online. But I think we can safely assume that wherever the Genie+ money is going, it won't be to increasing capacity on existing rides.

Theoretically, raising prices should reduce attendance and crowding -- there'd be plenty of elbow room if they were charging $1,000/day. But I agree with you that Disney's interest, as a corporation, is maximizing returns from the parks. And they must believe that running at full-to-bursting (which is evidently what you get with $150/day tickets) is the best way to achieve that.

Two day pass. You will want to hit up both parks with your kids. Both parks offer quite a few attractions for the younger crowd (my family loved CA Disney more than FL Disney). They are so different as well. California Adv. was way more laid back while Disneyland was more high energy as it has way more rides crammed in a small space. One has Cars Land, the other Star Wars land. Can't see one and not the other

Doing one day at Disneyland and one day at California Adventure makes sense if you want to get a majority of the rides in. But even then you're looking at long days at the parks if that's your goal. Could you include a "rest day" in-between to check out other stuff in LA? It was a few years back and my kids were a bit younger, but we did the beach and La Brea tar pits on the middle day and that was key to enjoying our final day at the parks.

If you're staying close to DL, you might also consider ducking out for an hour or two in the early afternoon to rest/nap/hit the pool.

Another thing to consider is at those ages, your kids will probably get just as much out of one day at the parks as two days in terms of memories and stories. So if the adults aren't that big on it you could just do one day at whichever park has more rides that meet their interests. No need to tell the kids they're missing anything, they can figure that out for themselves when you go back again in five or ten years!

California Adventure also has Avengers Campus now, can't miss that!

But would there be? I can’t honestly answer that. Maybe people would think they could get the “old” park experience if they dropped that thousand dollars, and it would end up just as crowded.

I complete Agree with your main point. Which I interpreted to be that Disney does not have enough capacity for the crowd level. They have continually reduced actual capacity and removed too many “people eaters”. Everyone wants to be doing something in Disney. And if there aren’t enough huge capacity rides, the entire experience suffers. If there is no crowd around a street performer, they are in the way.

I still feel like Disney is in a strange spot where a they are intentionally making the experience both more expensive, and more shitty, to try and improve it. But if they go too far with expense or shittyness, they risk killing it. That’s why they don’t double their prices and cut the experience in half tomorrow. And if they accidentally go too far and it kills the magic, poof, new CEO that will be there to bring the magic back with some minor concessions to the fans.

Disney exists to make the highest profit per dollar spent. They seem to be a victim of too much success right now.

They’re coming to Huntington Beach so that’s about a 30 minute ride to DL give or take. Also, there is a big beachy beach here as well which isn’t too bad in June. Trips to LA to hit the tar pits and such would consume pretty much a whole day.

Disney is not trying to curb demand - they are just pushing as hard as they think they sustain.

The company is monetizing on every front.

Prices is just how they drive their growth targets.

Limiting reservations is about staffing- not guest experience.

We feel like the reduced hours is one of the biggest changes. When everyone has to leave right after fireworks you don’t get as many people going home before or only showing up at night so it focuses crowds to be crazy between 11 and 8. When parks were open a few hours after the night time shows at any of the parks it felt much more spread out. Now after 11pm there is hardly anything to do. We will be staying deluxe to take advantage of the extra night hours and the quiet pools that don’t close at 10 or 11 when the lifeguards pack up. After this summer our APs will be done and we will be looking to go to Hawaii and Japan for our next 2 big summer vacations. This is after not missing a single summer in 9 years and every other summer visits for 7 years before that. We will see after those trips how Disney is looking and where else we want to go.

Oh snap. I forgot that opened. They were building it when we went. Better make it a 3 day pass

I don't think that is accurate. They are having issues with staffing. Everyone knows this.

Your point in this thread and the post above that there are "less things to do" is besides the fact, that more people are attending now than recent historical trends.

There's not much to do in Avenger's Campus. There's one ride and some occasional character stuff and an overrated quick service restaurant. I wouldn't plan to spend much time there.

Great idea to split a day in between the parks. We are staying in Huntington Beach (love it) on vacation and recently did a Tuesday at Disneyland and then a Thursday at Magic Mountain (no kids, just us). Absolutely get the Genie Plus and be sure to reserve your days way in advance. We spent 8 hours at Disney and rode 12 rides, everything we wanted and Space Mountain twice. Also paid the extra to get a timeslot for Rise of the Resistance, which was a true goosebump inducing attraction for me. Magic Mountain not good for younger kids, but the day we went the park was completely empty and no more than a 5 minute wait for the most popular rides (rode 14 rides in 5 hours and even took our time with lunch). Anyway, I think your kiddos will want to see each Disney Park, split up those days as they can be exhausting. And be sure to ride all of the Star Wars rides for yourself (and kids)!

How do you experts think the last week of August through the first week of September will be with respect to crowds?
Just as lousy as any other time?

That's historically the slowest week of the year. It'll be interesting to see how it is this year.

Thanks for all of the tips guys! We'll be there for 8 nights, and yes, we can definitely split up the days if the passes allow us to do that. Our kids remember the most random of things, so I think being able to experience everything we can will be enjoyable for them. I like the idea of taking a mid-day break to get out of the park and returning. Again, I'm not 100% sure how the passes work, assuming that if we have the bracelets (?) that we can come and go and we please. I wasn't sure if you had to go two consecutive days with the two day pass or if you can go any of two days.

EDIT: ok I see that you can reserve days/park for each day. So one day would be for Disneyland and the other day will be for Adventure Park.

Disney World was family tradition for us for many years. Starting going in 1977 as a kid and taking my kids there in the 1990s through early 2000s. Wife and I would also go by ourselves. Carousel of Progress and the Walt Disney Museum was our favorites.

I enjoyed watching the old films where Walt would talk about the perfect place to take your family.

Unfortunately, they have removed the museum and have pretty much distanced themselves from Walt’s visions. Disney is now about being woke and making your family broke, not only in wealth, but in morals.

I will spend my money elsewhere. It’s a shame as it was a great place.

The FastPass system was available to everybody, and I suspect more widely used than the pay-for-play genie plus thing. When more people had fast passes they spent more time out of lines doing other things. Could be wrong, but that's what it seemed like to me.

Of course the cut back on other things (parades, other 'show' like things, several retail locations closed) doesn't help any.

Usually it's very low once school starts, but honestly, all bets are off.

Even when you discount that, there are more people in the park, in the parking lots, on the busses, at the resorts, etc. A good way that I use to gauge the overall attendance is the busses, dinner reservations, and Disney Springs. When I couldn't get a Wend reservation at Raglan Road until 9:30 several weeks in advance in Jan, I knew we were in trouble.

Don't they still have seating spread out/limited at all the sit down places though? I know Be Our Guest was very open/spaced out when we were there in January.

'recent historical trends'? What is that exactly? There is no published attendance numbers from the company - the company's reports are comparing numbers to the prior quarters and they don't give the precision. They are still rebounding from their low point. When entire wings and entire resorts are offline.

The reduction of capacity in the parks is well documented in both structural capacity and operational capacity. The point of 'more people coming' is just gas on the fire.

They aren't bursting at the seems due to new demand - they are trying to run as lean as possible and further constrained by the staffing issues.

It's the best time to go...

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That's when we normally go, but this year we're doing the 9th to the 19th of August. Plenty of time to hit everything without rushing.

I don't think any of these crowd calendars apply anymore. At least they were all wrong as hell when we went mid-February.

Think I'm going to give it a couple years to settle down before I try again. I might take the kids for a few days in the summer and do just the water parks though.

By the way, I totally agree with what you are saying. I hadn’t really thought of it this way but you have completely described how I was feeling this last trip…I was turned in to a total park commando…and not a happy one since I was constantly in lines…

Any Disney fans have any old park t-shirts they'd want to sell me? I mostly collect ride and attraction tees, but I'd look at any Disney shirts for that matter. I'm especially looking to grow my Haunted Mansion collection.

Yeah, a lot people don't recognize how they are being influenced... but this an outcome (intentional or not) of how Disney has been marketing and pricing the product for a long time now.

Bundling hotel and ticket stay lengths together... so 'taking a day off' is foreign to most people now
Killing non-expiration - so you are in a 'use it or lose it' mentality
The extreme prices - "I gotta get my moneys worth..."
The non-stop "can't miss" "must do" marketing they cycle in resorts - creates a FOMO effect that pushes people to try to do more, and on this trip! Instead of Diversity or breadth people are steered to "experiencing it all"
The tying of everything to reservations - now you constantly are moving from obligation to obligation..
The scarcity of things makes reservations even more critical and valued - so they become the prize, more than the actual experience!
People end up putting so much work into their schedules/ressies - they become so valued (or fragile) you the schedule becomes the most protected thing.. and you bend runtime things to not disrupt the schedule

The parks punish you if you don't plan and they continue to make planning more and more involved and interdependent as they put more and more into fixed schedules. You plan becomes a monster you can't control and commodities are so scarce you'll jump through hoops to get them - even throw more money at the problem.

It used to be planning meant you got 'the most out of your vacation' - now it's 'PLAN OR DIE!' and you are in a rat race with everyone around you.

The cruise ships still do it right... they remind you YOU ARE ON VACATION! Even though there is scheduling and research to know what interests you.. they still enable adhoc pivots and just relaxing.

Member when this thread was about being a fan of the parks?

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Couldn’t have said it any better! It’s sad really.