(Topic ID: 260063)

Dished Insert Varathane Fill - Technique-Only Question


By clodpole

4 months ago



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  • 28 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 30 days ago by DropTarget
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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    #1 4 months ago

    If you've used liquid varathane to fill dished playfield inserts, would you describe your method, please? I'm expecting to drip it in with a small diameter straw, but don't know whether in several thin coats or one thick one.

    Or... if you think you have a viable alternative which works well to level dished inserts, feel free to describe your materials and method. I'm wanting to improve upon what I feel are Superglue's bad features, which are very short working time and acetone solvent requirement.

    Thanks!

    #2 4 months ago

    Don't do one thick coat or you will regret it... it may not fully cure if you do this and you'll make a mess when trying to sand flat... I'd do multiple thin coats, and let each one cure. I use small plastic pipettes for dripping varathane and or sucking air bubbles back out once you've dripped the liquid. You'll want let the top coat fully cure because it will require some serious sanding to flatten the varathane without hosing the surrounding playfield art. I use low tack paper tray liner to protect the playfield when sanding (cut round circles in the liner that allow full insert sanding only).

    Tons of helpful info on pinside on sanding paper, grit, other methods, etc. I performed this method on a Bally Expressway many moons ago ... came out great.

    #3 4 months ago

    Thanks - that helps.

    #4 4 months ago
    Quoted from clodpole:

    Thanks - that helps.

    Example of the liner:

    mazon.com/Magic-Cover-Clear-Self-Adhesive-Drawer/dp/B0170QQ67C/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=low+tack+shelf+liner&qid=1579543901&s=home-garden&sr=1-1

    Place a large enough piece of liner on the playfield that will protect the surface while you sand the insert flat. Prep the liner with a circle cut the size of the insert prior to applying... the key is to allow sanding of the insert surface while protecting the surrounding playfield surface from sanding. I'd start with 600 grit with a small sanding block, moving to 800, 1200 and finishing off with novus 2 or similar polish. It's a difficult process if you're not clearcoating the playfield afterwards, but it's a lot better than having cupped inserts for sure. There are many similar alternatives, but this is the way I've done it. Keep in mind it's a very difficult process; be patient. Also keep in mind when applying your clear to get out all air bubbles in each layer, or else it will never sand out clean. Even though liner is tough, you may have to replace the liner several times with a new piece as it gets hammered with sanding cuts.

    #5 4 months ago
    Quoted from Dono:

    Example of the liner:
    mazon.com/Magic-Cover-Clear-Self-Adhesive-Drawer/dp/B0170QQ67C/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=low+tack+shelf+liner&qid=1579543901&s=home-garden&sr=1-1

    amazon.com link »

    #6 4 months ago

    Thin coats.... I did the thick single application and I have slight ghosting on my inserts that I did it on.

    I think I just dripped it on with a toothpick or something similar - this was about 14 years ago so don't remember for sure.

    #7 4 months ago

    I'm experimenting with one other filler material, which will take a week or two. Stay tuned - I'll keep you posted, and thanks again for your help!

    #8 4 months ago

    Use a Product called Everbrite. It is clear, hard, and it is a Self Leveling evaporation.

    Cleans up easy with Alcohol, and youll have a perfectly leveled insert.

    No mistakes possible.

    If my post is misplaced based on your title, just say so, and Ill remove....

    https://www.everbritecoatings.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiA35rxBRAWEiwADqB37zDk6c5Njkw-6_n8MTtjsECn1jjU0J7mhX2W3AuXbQoh3uGujjqQ8RoC2HoQAvD_BwE
    pasted_image (resized).png

    #9 4 months ago

    Interesting approach has the above been documented anywhere?

    #10 4 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Use a Product called Everbrite. It is clear, hard, and it is a Self Leveling evaporation.
    Cleans up easy with Alcohol, and youll have a perfectly leveled insert.
    No mistakes possible.

    yes, please describe your method, sounds promising!

    #11 4 months ago

    Its easy. First, it depends on the depth, clean the whole area.
    Run a circle mask around insert. With a toothpick/safety pin/small brush, drop in a layer.

    Not much, just enough to cover. Let Dry, it will dry to a thin layer
    and level itself flat, even if you put a little too much.

    Continue building self leveling layers until you can feel or gauge by peeling
    back the mask, so it is close to level.

    Based on the surrounding area of the insert, decide whether you want the last layer
    as a fill, or with a larger mask, a feathered edge.
    Wax.

    If you dont like the product, dampen a cloth, q-tip with Alcohol and remove it.
    Taking 2-3 layers off takes no time.

    Some jobs come out almost invisible, some you can see the last layer.

    I have used it with mylar, touched up planking, coating metal posts, and parts in restoration,
    hundreds of thousands of pieces of jewelry, shooter knobs, lock down bars....

    Its a pretty cool product because it levels.

    Whats bad about it.

    Alcohol is the solvent, so chemically less durable, but not inside a game, unless you wipe down with
    a solvent.

    It can take more layers that an oil based filler, so a little more time, but it dries really fast.

    Not as hard as a clear coat that is oil based.

    But the stuff is pretty hard, and a common area of usage in coating is Brass handrails at Casinos,
    (where I learned of it) This gives you an idea on its durability. I think the site has vids still.

    #12 4 months ago

    One more, for me, I became, "Good at it", to do a dozen cupped inserts at once, without masks.

    Granted, it was a players game playfield with lots of touch ups also coated, it just wasnt worth the
    cost to do a playfield disassemble, but I wanted the game to look and play better.

    #13 4 months ago

    Post appreciated; just getting weary of "enforcers" who want us all to use one method. Your way sounds very interesting; I'm fooling with a different (water-based, alcohol removable) clear, but it doesn't level itself as well as Everbrite seems to.

    Anyway, thanks!

    #14 4 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Use a Product called Everbrite. It is clear, hard, and it is a Self Leveling evaporation.
    Cleans up easy with Alcohol, and youll have a perfectly leveled insert.
    No mistakes possible.
    If my post is misplaced based on your title, just say so, and Ill remove....
    https://www.everbritecoatings.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiA35rxBRAWEiwADqB37zDk6c5Njkw-6_n8MTtjsECn1jjU0J7mhX2W3AuXbQoh3uGujjqQ8RoC2HoQAvD_BwE
    [quoted image]

    With this product did you notice any darkening? I've seen other posts where they use clear varnishes. It can work ok on clear inserts, but inserts with any graphics will become faded and obscured.

    I read this [https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/17#post-1717646] and became overwhelmed, but am quite interested in this product as a 2PAC is difficult for me to obtain in a liquid mixable form., and ultimately, just want to fix some cupping etc.

    #15 4 months ago

    I have only seen it alter color, when I used on a 1940s wood rail.

    Of course, it depends on the paint used, any insert lettering showing, not coated, made with
    chemicals that could interact.

    So, Sure, yes, its possible. I dont have enough tests on all diff times, and manufacturer changes.

    However, if concerned, one could test somewhere on playfield hidden, or layer in first layer slowly to "lock
    in"

    It is my "opinionated use", so please dont hold me to responsibility.

    #16 4 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    I have only seen it alter color, when I used on a 1940s wood rail.
    Of course, it depends on the paint used, any insert lettering showing, not coated, made with
    chemicals that could interact.
    So, Sure, yes, its possible. I dont have enough tests on all diff times, and manufacturer changes.
    However, if concerned, one could test somewhere on playfield hidden, or layer in first layer slowly to "lock
    in"
    It is my "opinionated use", so please dont hold me to responsibility.

    Interesting thank you. My thinking was more with regard to a more severly cupped insert, where maybe you need quite a few coats of the product. The first few are usually clear, but on thicker coats I have heard about trouble. I was wondering if you have used this product specifically on any heavy cupping of an insert that has a graphic or letter/number on it? and if it was clear enough to not see a different. It seems like a great product from the sound of it.

    Thank you-

    #17 4 months ago

    There was a product that PBR used to sell that he called "Cover Your Glass". No one uses it anymore for that purpose, but I've often wondered if it could be used for cupped inserts. I believe the product was actually called Glace Glas, or something like that. PBR doesn't sell it anymore though, and I wouldn't know where to find it.

    #18 4 months ago

    Sorry, no, I have not done layers on a printed deep insert. or not printed.
    I think the most amount of layers I have applied is 10-12.

    I have not seen any yellowing from additional layers, other than when the jar gets a few
    years old and about 1/6 left. Im not sure if that is from contamination or age.

    Like for acrylic paints on a playfield, if one brushes heavy, or goes back and forth with a brush, it can interact and lift Acrylic touchup paint. The key is to layer lightly once, in first coat and second coat to seal in. Best to wait for acrylic paint to fully dry a couple days, depending on temp and humidity.
    Also the brand of Acrylic.

    Our thread op has experience in Acrylic additives, if that helps someone to ask.

    The main points are self leveling, clear, durable, removable with alcohol.
    Everything else is on a unique basis of pin, and application.
    If it doesnt work for you, Im hope you would find other uses in pins and around the house.

    #19 4 months ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Sorry, no, I have not done layers on a printed deep insert. or not printed.
    I think the most amount of layers I have applied is 10-12.
    I have not seen any yellowing from additional layers, other than when the jar gets a few
    years old and about 1/6 left. Im not sure if that is from contamination or age.
    Like for acrylic paints on a playfield, if one brushes heavy, or goes back and forth with a brush, it can interact and lift Acrylic touchup paint. The key is to layer lightly once, in first coat and second coat to seal in. Best to wait for acrylic paint to fully dry a couple days, depending on temp and humidity.
    Also the brand of Acrylic.
    Our thread op has experience in Acrylic additives, if that helps someone to ask.
    The main points are self leveling, clear, durable, removable with alcohol.
    Everything else is on a unique basis of pin, and application.
    If it doesnt work for you, Im hope you would find other uses in pins and around the house.

    Thanks, 10-12 coats seems pretty good, I think I'll try to give it a shot. Thanks for the tip.

    #20 4 months ago

    I started with an experiment before oldpinguy described his Everbrite method. I mixed GAC200 and acrylic clear medium 50/50 (which I just learned gets you about the same thing as Mod Podge Hard Coat) and thinned with water, and dripped into inserts with pipette. Later, added lots of thin layers with soft brush, and finally smoothed surface with IPA on sponge-on-a-stick. Surface is getting reasonably smooth, but if you look close in these photos, you can see something resembling ice.

    I'm reasonably pleased with the result, but I think I'll try Everbrite next time.

    IMG_1206 (resized).JPGIMG_1207 (resized).JPGIMG_1208 (resized).JPG
    1 week later
    #21 4 months ago

    Here's what that area looks like with touchup paint, wax, and a layer of mylar:

    IMG_1209 (resized).JPG
    2 months later
    #22 51 days ago

    I just ordered a can of everbrite for a Freedom I just picked up. I'm looking forward to trying this out.

    #23 50 days ago

    Please post results/opinions - I'd like to see how your experiment goes. Good luck!

    #24 50 days ago
    Quoted from clodpole:

    Please post results/opinions - I'd like to see how your experiment goes. Good luck!

    Will do! Now to get the table working....

    #25 50 days ago

    BTW, Pacific Pinball Museum out in CA has a clear acrylic Freedom, which I've played and also studied while my wife played it. It's really cool to watch the mechanisms at work during game play:

    #26 50 days ago

    That... Is pretty freaking cool!

    #27 50 days ago

    Hard to play - very easy to get distracted by the gizmos moving around inside!

    2 weeks later
    #28 30 days ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Use a Product called Everbrite

    Hi,

    Everbrite sells a few different products. Which one do you use?

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