(Topic ID: 284442)

Direction of Stern 2021...

By iceman44

10 months ago


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  • 194 posts
  • 69 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by JY64
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

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    There are 194 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 10 months ago

    Here’s the deal and come on man!!!!

    George and Gary to the team, “Hey fellas sorry about this LZ game but the license fee is so high you gotta figure out how to get something into this game. You know our MSRP on the LEs is gonna be $9,199 so make it work”

    Steve, “I’ve got this Gary. I’m gonna strip down AC/DC and put some side rail blinking lights in there and nobody will notice there is nothing on the pf or that the Iron Monger toy rising from the pf is a repeat

    Would you try and cram a BTTF or HP theme into that BOM?

    That’s why everybody says, “I sure wish JJP would make my dream theme”

    That’s coming from a guy that has bought the F out of Stern LEs

    Gonna be a bit picky now until my Casita gets built this spring!

    #152 10 months ago

    The reality is that at some point the hobby will reach saturation, if not there already. Of existing collectors, there’s the perennial issue of Limited space. For a good % there’s also limited cash. So that leaves new collectors to create the growth required to absorb all these new games. With no location play (which also means operators aren’t buying new games) exposing new people to pinball, the growth in new collectors has to moderate.

    Combine this with a record number of new titles being produced across all manufacturers, and you easily reach saturation. So you need to start giving people a reason to buy a new game.

    In my personal situation, cash isn’t the issue - I’m just getting sick of moving games in and out of my limited space. So I’m becoming more likely to skip a game on release unless it’s exceptional. If I miss a good game on release I’d prefer to pay overs to get it down the track once it’s a proven good game. I’m not going to keep buying games just to play them and see if they’re good or not. I’ll wait until it’s good and then pay a premium to get one - like I’ve just done with EHOH and AIqLe.

    Only recent exception to this for me is GNRCe and RnM - both were unique enough for me to order on launch.

    These new Sterns are hit or miss and mostly too generic. I’m sitting them out until they prove themselves. Give me an all-in, no BOM limit game once a year and I’ll order every one.

    #153 10 months ago

    Stern needs to do a Signature game every year. It needs to be an all in pin like BM66, Elvira, GNR. It should be a theme which the license holder is invested in the pin. No restrictions on the BOM and get all of the assets, price be damned and give us everything. It will sell!!

    #154 10 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    That’s why everybody says, “I sure wish JJP would make my dream theme”

    Not everybody Ice.
    I just don't enjoy their design and gameplay. Not yet anyway. Also they won't make most of my dream themes. MadMax, Robocop, Running Man, Slayer. I would much rather have a Zeppelin than a GnR. Ur more of collector, buying LE's and I'm guessing u hold on to them so I get it. I want a good theme and good gameplay. Its not gonna last that long so all this extra stuff really doesn't matter.

    #155 10 months ago

    I don't' know, but I feel that 3 machines ( pro, Premium and LE) are a waste of time and cost's!
    Nothing more than a Ca$h grab....

    Much like the earlier days when it was only the one machine of it's type, LOTR,POTC,IM,RBION etc...

    Costing would be cheaper, No 3 art works for cabinets, and playfields,plastics, also only 1 code to produce which means we all end up getting more on a playfield at a cheaper cost.

    #156 10 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    That’s why everybody says, “I sure wish JJP would make my dream theme”

    Jack is cutting cost like he really cant get a trunk to open remove a monkey remove the entire upper playfield becarful what you wish for you may get it

    #157 10 months ago
    Quoted from Squizz:

    I don't' know, but I feel that 3 machines ( pro, Premium and LE) are a waste of time and cost's!
    Nothing more than a Ca$h grab....

    What's odd is the Pro's apparently have higher margin (as was mention in the opening post). I wanted an Avengers Premium but ended up taking a Pro because that's all I could get my hands on at the time...Stern was building many more Pro's.

    The sad thing about the tiering is the Premium/LE added mechs are often buggy because their isn't enough time/resources to nail both PF configurations.

    #158 10 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    That’s why everybody says, “I sure wish JJP would make my dream theme”

    Now that JJP is ten years old this thread bitch should be Jack get your shit together and build two games a year. You are saying I don't like how you build your games but I want you to build me one WTF

    #159 10 months ago
    Quoted from Squizz:

    I don't' know, but I feel that 3 machines ( pro, Premium and LE) are a waste of time and cost's!
    Nothing more than a Ca$h grab....
    Much like the earlier days when it was only the one machine of it's type, LOTR,POTC,IM,RBION etc...
    Costing would be cheaper, No 3 art works for cabinets, and playfields,plastics, also only 1 code to produce which means we all end up getting more on a playfield at a cheaper cost.

    thats-not-how-this-works-thats-not-how-any-of-this-works.jpg

    #161 10 months ago

    he did a similar video a few years ago. I remember watching when I was considering buying my first pin. Since then Ive bought 6 sterns and theyve been good to me(so far)

    #162 10 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    Anyone post this yet?

    I posted it in another thread and several people blasted the guy as having an "axe to grind". Even if it's true, many of his key points struck a chord with me as a NIB Stern buyer since 2004.

    #163 10 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Here’s the deal and come on man!!!!
    George and Gary to the team, “Hey fellas sorry about this LZ game but the license fee is so high you gotta figure out how to get something into this game. You know our MSRP on the LEs is gonna be $9,199 so make it work”
    Steve, “I’ve got this Gary. I’m gonna strip down AC/DC and put some side rail blinking lights in there and nobody will notice there is nothing on the pf or that the Iron Monger toy rising from the pf is a repeat
    Would you try and cram a BTTF or HP theme into that BOM?
    That’s why everybody says, “I sure wish JJP would make my dream theme”
    That’s coming from a guy that has bought the F out of Stern LEs
    Gonna be a bit picky now until my Casita gets built this spring!

    I'm curious, did Gary actually say the LZ licensing fee was high?

    #164 10 months ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Should have kept Nordman’s original left ramp.

    got a pic of this ramp? i am curious.

    #165 10 months ago

    Can world market take charge EU market?

    #166 10 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    Anyone post this yet?

    The only pins in this guys videos that are working are sterns...When i see pins on location beat to hell-the sterns are the ones that typically work...

    I prefer spooky or CGC construction but this guy makes Stern seem evil.

    Hit em with BOM, playfields-don’t hit em for reliability if the only pins in your video working are made by Stern

    #167 10 months ago

    I'm never been nor will likely ever be a NIB buyer, I prefer to restore early B/W SS machines, but thought the video might fit in this thread.

    #168 10 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    I'm never been nor will likely ever be a NIB buyer, I prefer to restore early B/W SS machines, but thought the video might fit in this thread.

    For sure no intended anger or disrespect from me. That was my first time seeing it-thanks

    #170 10 months ago

    I think they need to go the opposite route and do more of "the pin"

    OK.. Ill leave now.

    11
    #171 10 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    I posted it in another thread and several people blasted the guy as having an "axe to grind". Even if it's true, many of his key points struck a chord with me as a NIB Stern buyer since 2004.

    The guy was illegally parallel importing and selling Stern games into Australia bypassing the official distributor down here. He got caught and shut down and of course was not happy so went on to make the video. So after importing and selling Sterns, he suddenly decided Sterns are crap. He’s a d*ckhead.

    #172 10 months ago

    I’m going to lay some opinion down.

    While we can love the BOM and assets on GnR, TH, Potc. The fact is that doesn’t guarantee a big seller and you can end up with a Potc or TH or Wonka or DI that doesn’t sell fantastical. Sure you’ll hit a GnR nerve and perhaps people will be clamoring for the CE and LE. But you’re not guaranteed of a sell out on every big BOM pin.

    Stern imo hedges their bets by spending modestly in time and BOM and so if a pin happens to sell weaker like Mustang or The Avengers, WWE and XM etc they’re on to Cincinnati. They can brush it off. But a better seller might be made off and on for a number of years. The cream rises to the top. JJP can be crippled by a combination of high quality high BOM and low selling pin like Potc.

    It’s like throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

    #173 10 months ago
    Quoted from Atari_Daze:

    I'm never been nor will likely ever be a NIB buyer, I prefer to restore early B/W SS machines, but thought the video might fit in this thread.

    Why? The guy is not genuine and his video is BS.

    #174 10 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I’m going to lay some opinion down.
    While we can love the BOM and assets on GnR, TH, Potc. The fact is that doesn’t guarantee a big seller and you can end up with a Potc or TH or Wonka or DI that doesn’t sell fantastical. Sure you’ll hit a GnR nerve and perhaps people will be clamoring for the CE and LE. But you’re not guaranteed of a sell out on every big BOM pin.
    Stern imo hedges their bets by spending modestly in time and BOM and so if a pin happens to sell weaker like Mustang or The Avengers, WWE and XM etc they’re on to Cincinnati. They can brush it off. But a better seller might be made off and on for a number of years. The cream rises to the top. JJP can be crippled by a combination of high quality high BOM and low selling pin like Potc.
    It’s like throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

    All valid points, but I'd simplify it by saying it's all about the license and margins. I don't think the average customer thinks much about the BOM. They focus on the license, cost, and availability. Since I just heard Gary say they build 65 games a day, Stern games are the most available. I'm fairly certain they have higher margins than JJP, but since they are private companies, they don't report such things. Lastly, they've done pretty well with licensing. It's just too bad Stern isn't more selective with licensees...if the licensee doesn't engage and cough up assets, it would be better to sometimes walk away (rather than produce a substandard game). I think JJP's GNR will do well because the licensee was so involved and GNR is still a touring, relevant band. OTOH, LZ wasn't as involved (understatement and they aren't touring/relevant in today's music scene. I love the band, but disappointed in what they produced. Will wait to play it...maybe it will shine, who knows? JJP's decision to redo Pirates was odd...it's too bad that wasn't Toy Story. Toy Story is a timeless license...hopefully it's next up.

    #175 10 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    I'm fairly certain they have higher margins than JJP,

    Jack sells direct to consumer so I would give the edge to JJP

    #176 10 months ago

    .

    #177 10 months ago

    I agree with ICE seeing how fast LE's and GNR CE's sold they could do a really special pin in limited number for high price point and sell out. I don't know if the numbers would work without the pro/prem though, that's above my pay grade. They could do it until they have a dud and would probably be fine with the dud that everyone will be trying to buy years later.

    I also agree with Aurich that it seems like they could dial down the amount of games designed per year and concentrate more on maybe even less title a year. That way you get more development time and you can keep the line going longer on one game at a time instead of swithcing back.

    Something I have never seen explained is why can't they have different prices for different games? If the designer wants a couple extra coils it's priced more than a game that doesn't have as much. Why when they increase prices even older NIB games go up as well? I believe this is the only market where that happens that I can think of.

    #178 10 months ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    Now that JJP is ten years old this thread bitch should be Jack get your shit together and build two games a year. You are saying I don't like how you build your games but I want you to build me one WTF

    I'm starting to question if you are a real person or a prototype AI troll bot designed by Stern that says random things against JJP.

    AI Test: JJP more toys and features, waiting on auto response code 54362.

    #179 10 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    AI Test: JJP more toys and features, waiting on auto response code 54362.

    Lol

    #180 10 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I'm starting to question if you are a real person or a prototype AI troll bot designed by Stern that says random things against JJP.
    AI Test: JJP more toys and features, waiting on auto response code 54362.

    Thats funny I give it a 7 out of 10

    #181 10 months ago

    Going back to Stern spending big money once a year. After taking a look in the last ten years only three titles have been worth big money. The only themes worth big money are The Beatles, Sar Wars and Led Zeppelin.

    #182 10 months ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    Going back to Stern spending big money once a year. After taking a look in the last ten years only three titles have been worth big money. The only themes worth big money are The Beatles, Sar Wars and Led Zeppelin.

    In terms of BOM, I have no complaints with Beatles or Star Wars. People who rag on Beatles for being stark are wrong and the hyperdrive in Star Wars is the coolest mech Stern has ever done (under utilizing by the software, but that's another issue). Love Beatles and love/hate Star Wars. Can't wait to see LZ in person.

    #183 10 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    In terms of BOM, I have no complaints with Beatles or Star Wars. People who rag on Beatles for being stark are wrong and the hyperdrive in Star Wars is the coolest mech Stern has ever done (under utilizing by the software, but that's another issue). Love Beatles and love/hate Star Wars. Can't wait to see LZ in person.

    People bitch about theme integration all the time and Star Wars is spot on perfect.

    #184 10 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    In terms of BOM, I have no complaints with Beatles or Star Wars. People who rag on Beatles for being stark are wrong and the hyperdrive in Star Wars is the coolest mech Stern has ever done (under utilizing by the software, but that's another issue).

    Nascar did it better

    #185 10 months ago
    Quoted from Psw757:

    People bitch about theme integration all the time and Star Wars is spot on perfect.

    I agree...awesome theme integration. Liked it much better than BM66, which gets rave reviews for theme integration. Unfortunately, BM66 shoots awful.

    #186 10 months ago
    Quoted from snaroff:

    I agree...awesome theme integration. Liked it much better than BM66, which gets rave reviews for theme integration. Unfortunately, BM66 shoots awful.

    I agree.

    #187 10 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I'm starting to question if you are a real person or a prototype AI troll bot designed by Stern that says random things against JJP.
    AI Test: JJP more toys and features, waiting on auto response code 54362.

    Funny, since it's widely known on Pinside that you've been JJP's fluff boy for years.

    -2
    #188 10 months ago
    Quoted from Napoleon:

    Funny, since it's widely known on Pinside that you've been JJP's fluff boy for years.

    87069807_3089970921013229_1789687072374652928_n (resized).jpg
    1 week later
    #189 9 months ago
    Quoted from Azmodeus:

    I want a perfect playfield, I want a perfect soul.

    "But you're a creep"

    -1
    #190 9 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    The question you can’t answer with confidence is if that would lead to actual higher returns.
    Case in point... Dialed in was that “unleash the beast” project... and it didn’t lead to runaway sales.

    I have to totally disagree with you on dialed in. If you just go off pinside owners alone Dialed in is hanging in there with some of the most recent best sellers.

    #191 9 months ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    I have to totally disagree with you on dialed in. If you just go off pinside owners alone Dialed in is hanging in there with some of the most recent best sellers.

    I own DI and think it’s like a TAF or TZ made with modern technology that wasn’t available 25 years ago.

    #192 9 months ago
    Quoted from woody76:

    I have to totally disagree with you on dialed in. If you just go off pinside owners alone Dialed in is hanging in there with some of the most recent best sellers.

    Yet... JJP wasn't pumping them out, nor is availability at Distributors a problem still years later. It's time to accept it... it was a soft seller.. especially considering it was PL's big return with 'no strings attached'.

    I love the game... sales didn't.

    #193 9 months ago
    Quoted from rai:

    I own DI and think it’s like a TAF or TZ made with modern technology that wasn’t available 25 years ago.

    It's crazy how much DI comes across as a modern TAF and TZ like you said. I still miss the TZ that I sold for a Dialed In LE but the game feels like a modern day successor to it.

    #194 9 months ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    It's crazy how much DI comes across as a modern TAF and TZ like you said. I still miss the TZ that I sold for a Dialed In LE but the game feels like a modern day successor to it.

    DI is like TSPP but not at all like TZ or TAF. Fewer modes that you have to accomplish goals to the mode not like TH where you look up after a long ball and you have compleated modes you did not know you had started. This what makes DI JJP best game it just needs a reskin

    There are 194 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.

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