Diner ramp not working

I have tested the switch with the dmm continuity test placing the leads on the screws od the switch and it beeps. Close the switch with my finger and it keeps beeping. Doesn't look like it has a diode. Tested other switches with diodes and they beep but stop beeping when you close the switch manually. Not really sure if I'm doind this correctly. Have any of you ever had this issue before? Any help or advise will be greatly apreciated. Thanks!

#3 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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image_(resized).png

#4 8 years ago

???

lostlumberjacks

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Evart, MI

11y 48,900 688

Put it into switch mode, then test the switch with a ball, not your finger. If it hits most of the time but occasionally misses, then replace the switch. You can try to adjust it, but if it is working 90% of the time but misses the other 10 than replace it. A lot less headache fiddling with it. Todd

#5 8 years ago

PAT

BR80

Pinside member

Thousand Oaks, CA

10y 85,050 633 14

Yes, that switch should have a diode on it.

#6 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from lostlumberjacks:
Put it into switch mode, then test the switch with a ball, not your finger. If it hits most of the time but occasionally misses, then replace the switch. You can try to adjust it, but if it is working 90% of the time but misses the other 10 than replace it. A lot less headache fiddling with it. Todd

Will do, today after work thanks!

#7 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from BR80:
Yes, that switch should have a diode on it.

Wow! Did I do the test correctly?

#8 8 years ago

PAT

BR80

Pinside member

Thousand Oaks, CA

10y 85,050 633 14

OP
Quoted from KornFreak28:
Wow! Did I do the test correctly?

Doesn't sound like it, the leads go onto the tabs above the switch instead of the screws.
The diode you'll need is a 1N4004, they're very cheap and available everywhere.
Make sure the band of the diode is installed in the right direction, compare to other switches to confirm.

#9 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from BR80:
Doesn't sound like it, the leads go onto the tabs above the switch instead of the screws.
The diode you'll need is a 1N4004, they're very cheap and available everywhere.
Make sure the band of the diode is installed in the right direction, compare to other switches to confirm.

Ok but let me ask you somwthing: The ramp has been working without the diode in there. You think the diode not being there is the issue that caused the switch not to work anymore? Or could it be simething else? Yes I will solder a diode in there but I would like to pinpoint the problem making this ramp not work. Let me know, thanks

#10 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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the leads go onto the tabs above the switch instead of the screws.

Tested there and got nothing

#11 8 years ago

PAT

BR80

Pinside member

Thousand Oaks, CA

10y 85,050 633 14

It's hard to say if the missing diode is the only problem, might be a failed switch or a broken wire somewhere else.
Test the switch on all three tabs while opening and closing it, compare results to a working switch with a diode.
For wire tracing, take a look at the switch matrix in the game manual, then test the wires from switch to switch.
If your not getting continuity where you should, that would be an issue too

#12 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from BR80:
It's hard to say if the missing diode is the only problem, might be a failed switch or a broken wire somewhere else.
Test the switch on all three tabs while opening and closing it, compare results to a working switch with a diode.
For wire tracing, take a look at the switch matrix in the game manual, then test the wires from switch to switch.
If your not getting continuity where you should, that would be an issue too

When testing wires from switch to switch I place one lead on one switch and the other lead on the other switch? Thanks

#13 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Can a switch be tested the right way if it doesn't have a diode in it?

#14 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Can one bad swithc cause other not to work?

#15 8 years ago

JJK

hawkmoon

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9y 84,650 3,117 13 8 1 1

I think you need to replace the switch,maybe ??

#16 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from hawkmoon:
I think you need to replace the switch,maybe ??

I'm currently at work, I will retest the switch when I get home and report back. This happenned late last night and its better to do everything again. Will report back. Thanks!

#17 8 years ago

LEE

Leeb18509

Pinside member

Farmington, UT

12y 76,550 2,113 5

Usually when a single switch quits working like that, a wire broke off of it. Always check the simple stuff first. Can't see them from your pic.

#18 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from Leeb18509:
Usually when a single switch quits working like that, a wire broke off of it. Always check the simple stuff first. Can't see them from your pick.

Thanks! Will post pics after work today. Please check back. Thanks

#19 8 years ago

???

Starwriter

Inactive member

There is no way the switch will work without a diode. Take that plastic off above and look at the switch. It should be wired like this pic. The far left terminal (The NC terminal) is really just used as a junction point. This is the far right terminal in your pic. If you imagine that the white wire is just soldered to the nonbanded end of the diode and just hanging in space, you see that the only thing really going on here is that when the switch closes it connects the banded end of the diode to the green wire. So, the complete circuit is white wire to diode, through the diode, through closed switch contacts to green wire.

switch2_(resized).jpg

#20 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from Starwriter:
There is no way the switch will work without a diode. Take that plastic off above and look at the switch. It should be wired like this pic. The far left terminal (The NC terminal) is really just used as a junction point. This is the far right terminal in your pic. If you imagine that the white wire is just soldered to the nonbanded end of the diode and just hanging in space, you see that the only thing really going on here is that when the switch closes it connects the banded end of the diode to the green wire. So, the complete circuit is white wire to diode, through the diode, through closed switch contacts to green wire.

switch2_(resized).jpg

Hi starwriter!

Yes sir you are correct as always! There is a diode, I just took the plastic off and its there. Checked out a few videos and just tested the switch in continuity test the right way. It works great in continuity test. Also did a swith egde test and switch level test and it also registers just fine. Can you tell me what to do next please? Thanks!!!

#21 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Also tested all the other swithches on both ramps and they also work great. Just don't understand why the ramp entrance switch doesn't work during the game? Can another switch that could be bad make the ramp switch not work? Thanks

#22 8 years ago

???

Starwriter

Inactive member

If the switch works in switch test, it should work while playing a game. Check it with a ball. Maybe the adjustment is off. With a gate switch like that, it should be adjusted so that it registers when the ball goes through either way. If the adjustment is close, but not quite right, it will register when the ball goes through 1 way, but not when it goes through the other way.

#23 8 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

10y 95,050 8,703

Does your switch have the pink quick disconnect on it like Starwriters pic? Cut it off and solder the wire on the switch. No more troubles!

#24 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from GRUMPY:
Does your switch have the pink quick disconnect on it like Starwriters pic? Cut it off and solder the wire on the switch. No more troubles!

No, the wires are soldered directly.

#25 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from Starwriter:
If the switch works in switch test, it should work while playing a game. Check it with a ball. Maybe the adjustment is off. With a gate switch like that, it should be adjusted so that it registers when the ball goes through either way. If the adjustment is close, but not quite right, it will register when the ball goes through 1 way, but not when it goes through the other way.

I check it during the game rolling the ball with my hand but it would not register ar all. I will try it again right now and see what happens. I got some questions:

If a switch is good in continuity test and in switch test, can another switch somewhere else make this switch not work during the game?

Is there any possible chance something like a transistor or something in the boards that could be bad and make the switch not work during gameplay but work in test mode and with the dmm?

Thanks!!

#26 8 years ago

GUS

Plumonium

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Montreal, QC

9y 60,550 1,496 5 7

Do you know the rulesets that make the diverter open to the cup? Just checking.

If you make the ramp, the first time the diverter will open for 10sec. If you make it to the cup, you'll need to make the ramp 5 more times before the diverter opens again (completing the letters DINER on the playfield.

Could it be what you experienced?

#27 8 years ago

???

Starwriter

Inactive member

Did you check it in switch test with a ball?

#28 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from Plumonium:
Do you know the rulesets that make the diverter open to the cup? Just checking.
If you make the ramp, the first time the diverter will open for 10sec. If you make it to the cup, you'll need to make the ramp 5 more times before the diverter opens again (completing the letters DINER on the playfield.
Could it be what you experienced?

That is a great point and honestly I thoght about it but to make sure I rolled the ball like 20 times with no reaponse, then to make 100% sure I turned the pin off and started a fresh game and same result. No response from switch....Thanks!

#29 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from Starwriter:
Did you check it in switch test with a ball?

I wanted to do that but the 3 through switches for each ball were flashing on the screen rapidly and the only way I could make sure the switch was working was with my hand and leave it activated to make sure it comes on. should I remove the balls to make sure I get a reading with just the ball?

#30 8 years ago

???

Starwriter

Inactive member

If it's not adjusted right, and you just lift it with your finger, you're lifting it higher than the height of the ball. Somehow you gotta run a ball through there for a test. I'm used to DMD games where you can see all the switch closures at the same time.

#31 8 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

10y 95,050 8,703

OP
Quoted from KornFreak28:
should I remove the balls to make sure I get a reading with just the ball?

Yes.

#32 8 years ago

???

Starwriter

Inactive member

BTW, you should also be able to hear the switch click when you pass a ball through it.

#33 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from Starwriter:
If it's not adjusted right, and you just lift it with your finger, you're lifting it higher than the height of the ball. Somehow you gotta run a ball through there for a test. I'm used to DMD games where you can see all the switch closures at the same time.

I know, I like those better. How do I adjust the switch in case that is the issue?

Now that I think about it, last night I even tested the switch with my fingers during the game and it would not register. But today after I came back from work, it worked great during test mode. Then the wife started screaming for help with the kids and I could not test the switch in game play. But I will test it again in game play with the ball and also test with the ball in test mode and report back. Any idea why the switch would not register last night even with my fingers?

Side note: I was leding the game and turn it on and off several times while I checked the leds were working.

#34 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from GRUMPY:
Yes.

Sure will grumpy, stand by. Putting the babies to sleep

#35 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from Starwriter:
BTW, you should also be able to hear the switch click when you pass a ball through it.

Yes starwriter, the switch clicks just fine

#36 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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It clicks great with my hand but need to test with the ball. Will do that shortly and report back! Thanks!

#37 8 years ago

???

Starwriter

Inactive member

If it turns out to be a switch adjustment problem, some switches have an adjustment where you can loosen the screws and move the switch slightly. Others require you to bend the switch lever slightly. Make sure the diode isn't broken at the solder joint and making intermittent contact That's all I got. You're going to have to figure it out from there.

#38 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from Starwriter:
If it turns out to be a switch adjustment problem, some switches have an adjustment where you can loosen the screws and move the switch slightly. Others require you to bend the switch lever slightly. Make sure the diode isn't broken at the solder joint and making intermittent contact That's all I got. You're going to have to figure it out from there.

Thank you very much!

#39 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Well just tested in game play and in test mode with the ball and everything is working perfectly! I honestly don't know what happenned or how I "fixed" it. But last night it wasn't working at all. Any ideas? Thanks to all of you for your help! Again, yoi guys just ROCK!

#40 8 years ago

RDM

gdogfunk

Pinside member

Toledo, OH

9y 32,400 83 23 11

I just got my Diner last night and it worked at the store and now that it's setup in my basement, I'm having the exact same issue. The right ramp never opens the diverter, but the switch works in test mode. I'll check the alignment when I get home tonight. Frustrating for sure!

#41 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Quoted from gdogfunk:
I just got my Diner last night and it worked at the store and now that it's setup in my basement, I'm having the exact same issue. The right ramp never opens the diverter, but the switch works in test mode. I'll check the alignment when I get home tonight. Frustrating for sure!

Yeah I know what you mean! make sure the leveler clicks and test it with your meter in continuity...mine worked after that

#42 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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Or check that you don't have it set for "extra hard" if you do, it takes a while dor it to open the diverter. Set it to easy or medium and test it

#43 8 years ago

RDM

gdogfunk

Pinside member

Toledo, OH

9y 32,400 83 23 11

I did a factory reset, set it to 5 balls per play (not the 5 ball settings) and changed the right ramp to Medium and we never got the diverter to work. I'll check the switch tonight. I assume this would be causing the left ramp to never lift since the lock light never gets lit.

#44 8 years ago

Tlamb

Pinside member

Stevensville, MI

12y 57,800 895

Question, when you test it are you using your finger or passing a ball through the gate that engages the switch? Sometime the arm off the switch will bend, thus not engaging the switch when the ball passes through the gate. I have run into a similar issue when testing a switch by hand and working well, but not engaging with a ball. Sounds like you got it figured out though.

#45 8 years ago

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KornFreak28

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