Diner Pinball Won’t Boot!

Hey all! I have a Diner that won’t boot at all. I was told that it was working just recently and when the batteries were replaced, it stopped booting. GI are on but no display and no attract mode. We do get a test bong but that’s about it. I reflowed solder on the power supply and CPU headers and then even touched up solder on the ICs. Any idea what could be the culprit? Thanks! One of the pics shows a chip that looks a little toasty, not sure if it would be an issue though

51EEE418-87EF-4A3F-8BE1-4EBF9C5498C4 (resized).jpeg

8947F71F-9160-4819-B0E0-262481409E77 (resized).jpeg

#2 3 years ago

???

KenLayton

In Memoriam

Olympia, WA

12y 83,400 5,965

Go directly to the power supply board and measure the DC output voltages.

#3 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from KenLayton:
Go directly to the power supply board and measure the DC output voltages.

Will do. What am I looking for here? Haha sorry I’m learning

#4 3 years ago

^^^

PINTEC

Pinside member

Chicago, IL

6y 51,550 513

bong sound indicates music board is booting with required 5V 12V and -12V voltages present

#5 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from PINTEC:
bong sound indicates music board is booting with required 5V 12V and -12V voltages present

Ah, good point. Anywhere I should check first?

#6 3 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:
Anywhere I should check first?

Check these 3 test points.

22 (resized).PNG

#7 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from GRUMPY:
Check these 3 test points.
[quoted image]

One lead on the ground braid, and one on the TP, right? on Diode test? And what measurements should I be getting? Thanks!

#8 3 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

Set meter for DC voltage. Black to ground braid, red to test points.

#9 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from GRUMPY:
Set meter for DC voltage. Black to ground braid, red to test points.

Gotcha, Am I checking for a beep?

#10 3 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:
Am I checking for a beep?

Nope, tell us what the meter reading is.

#11 3 years ago

MOF

mof

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index2.htm

OP
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:
checking for a beep

in DC voltage mode -- there's no beeping =)

Check page 84 of your manual to see the voltages on the schematics for the power supply board.

To get ideas on what to check in what order -- study this:

Also - you can search for "test points" to quickly see what values to test for.

#12 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from GRUMPY:
Nope, tell us what the meter reading is.

Will do

#13 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

I will conduct measures at the test points and get back to you all!

#14 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Just to clarify, do I obtain these measures with the game powered on or off??

#15 3 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:
do I obtain these measures with the game powered on or off??

It would be hard to measure power with the power turned off.

#16 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from GRUMPY:
It would be hard to measure power with the power turned off.

Hahah, just want to make sure

#17 3 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

When testing resistance/continuity/beep, the game would be off. Voltage measurements are always with the game on.

#18 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Got the test point readings!

TP 1: 05.1 (normal)
TP 3: 11.7 (normal)
TP 4: -14.7 (incorrect)

I think TP4 is the issue! Could it be that bridge rectifier 1 is the issue since it’s in TP4’s circuit?

#19 3 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

TP -4 is fine.

Now find the 5 volt and ground TPs on the cpu board. Measure these with the volt meter.

#20 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from GRUMPY:
TP -4 is fine.
Now find the 5 volt and ground TPs on the cpu board. Measure these with the volt meter.

Okay gotcha. I hate to be trouble but could you maybe explain how I’d do this? This is something new for me!

#21 3 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:
maybe explain how I’d do this?

Turn on game. Put meter on DC volts setting. Put red lead the CPU 5 volt test point. Put black lead on the CPU ground test point. Let me know what you read.

#22 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from GRUMPY:
Turn on game. Put meter on DC volts setting. Put red lead the CPU 5 volt test point. Put black lead on the CPU ground test point. Let me know what you read.

Okay, thanks! Is the tp2 a ground?

#23 3 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

Left is the 5 volt test point and right is the ground test point.

fff (resized).PNG

#24 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from GRUMPY:
Left is the 5 volt test point and right is the ground test point.
[quoted image]

Huge help! Thanks

#25 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Just out of curiosity, what would you guess could be the issue at this point? Have we omitted the Power Supply from being the issue? Thanks!

#26 3 years ago

???

keith20mm

Pinside member

Jasper, AR

11y 27,050 58

You are needing to determine if the power supply 5v output is getting to the cpu board test point.

What you read will tell about the condition of the wires and connectors between the power supply board and the cpu board.

#27 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from keith20mm:
You are needing to determine if the power supply 5v output is getting to the cpu board test point.
What you read will tell about the condition of the wires and connectors between the power supply board and the cpu board.

Thanks!

#28 3 years ago

TOM

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

9y 134K 15,519 31

Did you check for any loose or accidentally unplugged cables?
Bad or loose fuse?

Just maybe its something simple?

#29 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from pinballinreno:
Did you check for any loose or accidentally unplugged cables?
Bad or loose fuse?
Just maybe its something simple?

Oh my god, it could totally be a fuse. The owner of the game said he checked fuses but I never actually checked myself haha

#30 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Then again, I think it’s something else. I checked all connectors and even reflowed solder

#31 3 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from GRUMPY:
TP -4 is fine.
Now find the 5 volt and ground TPs on the cpu board. Measure these with the volt meter.

I seriously don't know how you can tell any of these boards will have bad solder not even knowing what board is at fault.

I have never seen any bad solder on any system 11 games in my 11 years, unless someone did a bad repair job.

So here we wait for your answer to Grumpy's post.

#32 3 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Once you establish 5v is at least 4.8v on the CPU board, please report what is the state of the blanking and diagnostic LEDs on the CPU board.

#33 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Once you establish 5v is at least 4.8v on the CPU board, please report what is the state of the blanking and diagnostic LEDs on the CPU board.

Okay will do.

#34 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

I haven’t been able to get out there to take the measurement yet but, I have an account of the led flash sequences. Upon initial start up, the left most LED stays on, the middle LED blinks 5 times, and the far right LED blinks 10 times.

#35 3 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

You still need to measure the 5v on the MPU. If it is good, sounds like there is a bad part on the board. What all work was done to the MPU? Just wondering to see if it can be potentially related the error codes you are currently seeing.

#36 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
You still need to measure the 5v on the MPU. If it is good, sounds like there is a bad part on the board. What all work was done to the MPU? Just wondering to see if it can be potentially related the error codes you are currently seeing.

Gotcha. Upon removing the MPU, it appears everything was in tact and untouched. Traces were perfect and no hack work was done. I’m wondering if there is a bad component somewhere (if it isn’t a wiring issue)

#37 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Before I go out to measure, is there anything I should look for if I can confirm there is proper voltage? I just want to minimize the number of times I have to go out there

#38 3 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Just the 5v on the MPU as Grumpy mentioned. If is above 4.8v, better consider sending it to ChrisHibler for repair. MPU bootup issues are too complicated to direct anyone to a part to replace. He can install NVRAM at the same time.

Post last edited 3 years ago.

#39 3 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Chris' Pinball Repair

Chesterfield, MO

12y 120K 9,996 46

Well sir. Good advice provided in this thread.

Let’s hear about that 5V on the MPU.
Happy to help.
—
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#40 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
Well sir. Good advice provided in this thread.
Let’s hear about that 5V on the MPU.
Happy to help.
—
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

I will report back to you sometime tomorrow regarding the 5 Volts. Thanks!

#41 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Looks like we have 5v on the CPU! So I guess we are looking at a bad component on the board. I will give ChrisHibler ’s number to him! Thanks!

1 week later

#42 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Looks like he is not down to send them in! Is it possible you all could walk me through where to start? Maybe common culprits on the board? I feel confident in fixing it, just need some guidance on this era system 11

#43 3 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Chris' Pinball Repair

Chesterfield, MO

12y 120K 9,996 46

There could be several reasons for the failure.
My advice again is to send it to a competent repairman.
If he buggers up the board in an attempt to repair it, it will make the actual repair that much tougher.

What competent repairmen hate to hear, "I'm going to try it myself. If I mess it up, I'll send it to you". Argh.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#44 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

I recommended sending them in! But he is still on the fence. We found that the F3 fuse keeps constantly blowing. What could this be?

#45 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

It only blows when a connector is plugged in!

#46 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Unplugging J2 allows the game to boot! No display

#47 3 years ago

MOF

mof

F3 on which board? power or aux power?

OP
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:
What could this be?

Search "site:pinside.com" + "system 11C" + "F3" or "site:pinside.com" + "Diner + F3" to get a sense of the range of ideas on what to check.

also, you can substitute Diner with other 11c's

#48 3 years ago

MOF

mof

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/d/d2/D-12232.jpg
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-11c-display-issue-single-digit-broken

Progress! Looks like you may have things isolated to the master display board.

shot in the dark:
With the power off -- check for a short on U19 UDN7180

#49 3 years ago

AEK

Pinball-DOOD

Pinside member

Quoted from mof:
Progress! Looks like you may have things isolated to the master display board.
https://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:WMS-D-12502-1.jpg
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-11c-display-issue-single-digit-broken
shot in the dark:
With the power off -- check for a short on U19 UDN7180

Sounds good! Since I don’t have the schematics in front of me, what is U19?

#50 3 years ago

MOF

mof