(Topic ID: 139957)

Diner PF GI gone

By desertT1

8 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by desertT1
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

I'd like to go a little closer to the transformer though. At J6, I am getting ~1.8V at pins 1-4 and then ~4.0V at 5-9, or the other way around, can't remember now. That gets me to the 5.9V, but is that proper?

Next, the BB GI is on and working, so at least that is good.

At the PF GI connector (J9? There is a sticker over it) is giving me ~4V at pin 1 (WHT-VIO) and ~1.8V for pins 5-7. This is where the electronics loses me. Under the bottom left GI area, the WHT-VIO connects to one side of the socket, but then the VIO connects to the other side. If we are adding voltages, wouldn't they have to go to the same side and then have a ground at the end of the daisy chain? The right side GI used to work, but then one day, all gone. I would assume that side is fine, aside from all of them being out. I'm stuck and frustrated at this point.

#2 8 years ago

AC G.I. isn't measured to ground. It's measured pin-to-pin. So measure from Wh/Vio to Vio with meter set on AC Volts.

Then measure the other wire pairs similarly...Wh/Color to Color (where color is the same color).

#4 8 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

AC G.I. isn't measured to ground. It's measured pin-to-pin. So measure from Wh/Vio to Vio with meter set on AC Volts.
Then measure the other wire pairs similarly...Wh/Color to Color (where color is the same color).

The violet set measures fine, but the yellow set does not, basically zero. Took the connector off and touched the pins too, not just the back side of the connector.

#5 8 years ago

So where do you guys think I am at at this point. I have good voltage coming in, continuity at the fuses, but nothing at the output to the PF GI. I guess I can try to measure continuity from the input pins from the transformer and see if the traces are at least good.

#6 8 years ago

Update. The right side GI is back. Turns out the fuse for that side was giving a false continuity. I traced the voltage back to it and that's where it stopped, but on the incoming side of the fuse it was good. Pulled the fuse and checked continuity and it was bad. Must have been sitting just right to give continuity, but actually be blown. New fuse and and the right side all works.

The left side is really throwing me for a loop. I have good voltage at J9 at the violet set of wires. By this I mean that I touch pin 1 and pin 5 and get a good voltage number. I have continuity from the back side of pins 1 and 5 (the violet set) to their matching colors on the socket that the wires all start at, but no voltage between the two at that socket. With a bulb in the socket, I have continuity at the leads. With no bulb, I still have continuity, but that is because the signal is going up one side of the chains and coming back around correct? The entire chain also has new bulbs in it, so it's not that everything is burned out. Totally stumped here.

#7 8 years ago

When checking a fuse, you must always_ pull it. Seriously - don't shortcut this, it's always going to cost you in the end. You need at least one leg removed (doesn't matter which side).

#8 8 years ago
Quoted from jfesler:

When checking a fuse, you must always_ pull it. Seriously - don't shortcut this, it's always going to cost you in the end. You need at least one leg removed (doesn't matter which side).

+1 Always pull and check the fuses. My guess is your left side fuse is bad too.

Once you get that sorted you'll need to figure out what was done to blow out the two fuses. Were you swapping bulbs with the game on or anything?

#9 8 years ago

I pulled the game from the warehouse of an event planning type of company. They had minimal knowledge of how to work on these. When I got it the right side was working and the left side was out. I probably blew the fuse on the right side when I was poking around trying to compare the two sides.

I pulled and tested the fuse for the left side (F4, VIO/WHT) and it was good. Just to make sure, I put in a new fuse and powered on. Still no lights. When I got the game, there was a yellow daisy chain wire hanging loose. I soldered that back on to where it was missing from. It was pretty much the first thing I did. It had gotten snagged on the block that holds the prop rod, so at least the old owners knew how to lift the PF up.

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I have good voltage at J9 at the violet set of wires. By this I mean that I touch pin 1 and pin 5 and get a good voltage number.

What are the actual AC voltages did you get?
How I normally test...black meter lead wedged in ground braid. Left or right side should be about 6.8-7.2VAC and the return ground on each should be about 1.2-1.8VAC.

#11 8 years ago

From the back side of the J9 connector, the solid purple to where I think the daisy chain begins is 6.3V. The white/purple wire from the back of the J9 connector to the white/purple lead on the first socket reads .25V. If solid is + and the striped one is -, then shouldn't that read 0V?

#12 8 years ago

N9.it definitely should be 1.2 - 1.8 volts AC if the lamps were working. Actually before it gets to the first bulb, it goes through a small relay board which you would find mounted on the underside of the playfield. Normally this relay has a big yellow covering. Look at the male and female pins going to that board and see if you see any that are burnt. You would need to deal with those. If you don't see any pins burnt, then you can swap to relay board with the one in the back box mounted on the backside of the light board to see if the problem moves to the back box

#13 8 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

N9.it definitely should be 1.2 - 1.8 volts AC if the lamps were working. Actually before it gets to the first bulb, it goes through a small relay board which you would find mounted on the underside of the playfield. Normally this relay has a big yellow covering. Look at the male and female pins going to that board and see if you see any that are burnt. You would need to deal with those. If you don't see any pins burnt, then you can swap to relay board with the one in the back box mounted on the backside of the light board to see if the problem moves to the back box

I'll be damned. I never saw the relay board as being in the circuit. There it is on the right side of the schematics though. The text was something I hadn't looked into since I was so focused on the picture. There are 2 purple and 2 yellow, and I am assuming one wire coming from the board and the other going out to the lights. Again, going to assume that the relay is a normally on type. Pins 1 and 4 are the yellow and those have continuity. Pins 2 and 5 are the purple and those do not have continuity. Connectors look great, no burn marks to be seen.

So, do I replace the whole board, or just the relay?

#14 8 years ago

Try resoldering the pins first. That often works. You can also swap it out with the backbone relay really quick to determine if that is indeed the issue.

#15 8 years ago

At a time you know the gi should be on, gently jiggle the relay a bit and the connector feeding it. If the lights come back on, it's probably cold solder joints on the relay.

#16 8 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

At a time you know the gi should be on, gently jiggle the relay a bit and the connector feeding it. If the lights come back on, it's probably cold solder joints on the relay.

As nerdygrrl mentioned, resolder the pins first on the connector and on the relay. If that does not fix the issue, then swap the whole relay board with the one in the backbox mounted on the back of the light board door.

#17 8 years ago

I looked over the board this morning with fresh(er) eyes and there is a cold solder joint on one of the relay connections. I will reflow that tonight, cross fingers, and see what happens. This is going to be a long work day.

#18 8 years ago

Solder joint reflowed and the Comet LEDs in the GI look great. Thanks for the help all.

#20 8 years ago

Giddy up!! Enjoy your game.

#21 8 years ago

I suggest changing to lithium batteries since they will last 5 years and will not leak as do alkaline batteries do. Easiest upgrade you can do to protect your MPU from future damage.

#22 8 years ago

This and the Police Force were both leaking when I got them. Pulled the boards, cleaned the minimal damage, and wired up a disc battery holder in each. The battery lives in the coin box area now.

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