(Topic ID: 221173)

Diner, no coils on A or C working? (Help please)

By Tomass

5 years ago


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  • 86 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Tomass
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 86 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

Finishing up a Diner project and now I have some issues getting it running. Any help on which issue to tackle first would be appreciated. Fist off, no display. This was an ussue when I picked it up but when I put the display into cyclone, it worked with odd characters on display. I was hoping it was the c1 and c3 caps on the power board but I just changed those. This had the display cable backwards on one comnector when I got it and I duplicated it, following pics but have since corrected it.
Next are shorts in the system. The 8amp fuse pn the side of the head glows on startup and will eventually blow. Also f4 and f5 blow. I can get a game to start and the audio is working. It kicks out 2 balls on game start however.
Just not sure where to start exactly. Should I get displays working, and where do I start there? Or do I need to fix the shorts firts?
Any advice is appreciated!

#2 5 years ago

Also I believe I heard the knocker or another coil fire on first start. I am going to all board work, if necessary on my own, regardless of what needs fixed. Getting better at soldering on the board and feeling confident enough to tackle ic's or whatever. Well, we will see anyway.

#3 5 years ago

Oddly enough, when I put this power supply into my pool sharks, that display no longer works. But the pool sharks power supply does not give Diner any display.

#4 5 years ago

Did you try swapping your ribbon cable between the Diner and Pool Sharks?

Check your display voltages with a meter. http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Display_problems

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Did you try swapping your ribbon cable between the Diner and Pool Sharks?
Check your display voltages with a meter. http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Display_problems

Hmmm, I should have thought of this. I'll check when I get home today.

#6 5 years ago

Ok, so the cable was bad. Somewhere in the switch a fuse blew which explains why the power supply made pool sharks go out. I have displays now but they are flickering and not very readable. Gonna reflow the pins and see if that helps.
Anyone have some help for the shorts in the system?

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Ok, so the cable was bad. Somewhere in the switch a fuse blew which explains why the power supply made pool sharks go out. I have displays now but they are flickering and not very readable. Gonna reflow the pins and see if that helps.
Anyone have some help for the shorts in the system?

Post the high voltage measurements. Also, I would reseat both ends of that ribbon cable.

#8 5 years ago

Just to make sure I am doing this correctly: neg to ground braid:
Pin 1 -96.9v
Pin 3 99.6 v

#9 5 years ago

Yes, negative to ground braid. Can you post a picture as well of the display after reseating both ribbon cable ends ?

#10 5 years ago

Reseated cable and still the same. This cable works fine in Cyclone.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Pin 1 -96.9v
Pin 3 99.6 v

Those voltages are a bit lower than what I normally see...104 and about -101v. But someone could had lowered a resistor to make the display dimmer in order to extend its life. Seeing a picture of the display may help knowing if it is a voltage issue or not.

#12 5 years ago

The last time it was on it was very faimt and fading. Now that I try to take a video it is totally dark. Fuses still good

#13 5 years ago

It was continually getting worse as time went on over the 5 min it was partially working. Last time before I tried to record? The 00 was very light and then nothing after that.

#14 5 years ago

Maybe I bought the wrong capacitor? 150mf 160v

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

It was continually getting worse as time went on over the 5 min it was partially working. Last time before I tried to record? The 00 was very light and then nothing after that.

It does sound like a voltage problem, but you need to take measurements again once it is acting up. Sounds more and more like you need to rebuild the high voltage section, along with changing all the capacitors on the power supply, which would help prevent other failures in the future.

#16 5 years ago

What do you mean acting up? It is still not working. The votages are still the same though.

#17 5 years ago

Acting up as in when the display fades out compared to the voltages when the game is first powered on.

#18 5 years ago

Yeah, its totally out now. Cannot get anything.

#19 5 years ago

Ok, so I put in pool sharks ps with the good cable and displays are crisp and bright.

#20 5 years ago

Since GPE is out of stock for the kit, you'll have to source the individual parts for the high voltage, possibly from another source.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=WAN-HVP-KIT

Here are all the capacitors needed for the whole power supply.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W12246-PEC-KIT

#21 5 years ago

May want to measure the 39K Resistor at R1 and R4 as at times they go out of spec. They are part of the HV rebuild.

#22 5 years ago

Ok, gotcha.

#23 5 years ago

R1 measures about 43 kohm
R3 315 kohm. I just noticed the capacitor next to it was bent down and looked like it was touching the lead at r3.

#24 5 years ago

R3? R1 and R4 are about 39k.

#25 5 years ago

Oops
R4 shows ol in one direction but .5 M ohms in the other?

#26 5 years ago

Technically it is measuring open. You could just replace the resistor to see what happens but I think I would deal with that high voltage section and replace all the components listed on the link

#27 5 years ago

Ok. I will look at sourcing those components. At least I can use the working ps to figure out why I am blowing 3 fuses.

#28 5 years ago

So to sum up where I am:
F4 and f5 fuses blow as well as the 8 amp located on the side of the head by itself. Not sure how to isolate where the shorts aŕe.

#29 5 years ago

I actually put a fuse into f4 and its working now. F5 still blows on power up and I did not mess with 8amp on the side. I saw it glow and blow.

#30 5 years ago

Please post a picture of the whole MPU. Run a solenoid test to see which coils/flashers are not firing.

#31 5 years ago

Here is the mpu. I need to put good flashers in but the right jet sol 19 did not fire. Once I get bulbs in I will know if any flashers did not fire. Ill report back in a few

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#32 5 years ago

It seems that the C side is not working. Also not sure what ac select does in test mode but prob not right.

#33 5 years ago

You should hear the relay click during that test.

#34 5 years ago

I do hear it clicking. None of the C side is working and no flippers.
Right pop was just stuck mechanically.

#35 5 years ago

Do your flippers work during gameplay? I don't think there is a flipper test within the solenoid test.

#36 5 years ago

Sorry, the left one is working and the right is not. No test but they work during trst mode. Well the right is not, nor during gameplay.

#37 5 years ago

I read that if f5 blows on power up BR1 is bad. Is that something I should check? I think I need to desolder to check tho.

#38 5 years ago

Sorry, I was tied up since my last response but done for tonight.

That is probably true. The BR can be tested while it is still in the board. This is on the power supply? If so, it is very difficult to remove without damaging the board.

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Sorry, I was tied up since my last response but done for tonight.
That is probably true. The BR can be tested while it is still in the board. This is on the power supply? If so, it is very difficult to remove without damaging the board.

No worries. I am just glad to have help! This is a full resto that is months in the making so I am very patient and just glad to be at this point. Just seeing it fired up is the best.
Yeah, its on the aux board. I also see that f5 is the right flipper? If so that makes sense. Also the 8 amp on the side that blows is connected to the rectifier thats screwed to the backplate. Not sure if that helps figure this out.

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#40 5 years ago

You are doing good so far.

Without fact checking, I think what you say is right. The BR on the aux board is the easier one to remove, though I still cut the legs close to the body of the part and then desolder each leg separately.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You are doing good so far.
Without fact checking, I think what you say is right. The BR on the aux board is the easier one to remove, though I still cut the legs close to the body of the part and then desolder each leg separately.

Ok, I'll be at it tomorrow. Gotta sleep. So I pull the board, put positive to the negative lead and read the 2 a/c lines. Then neg to pos lead and same thing. I will report the readings after that.

#42 5 years ago

Normally, a bad BR will short one of the AC lines to either one of the output + or -.

#43 5 years ago

The only thing that may be an issue is the resistence between the two ac lines. Br1 is reading 6 to 7 M ohms. Br2 reads about 17. Br1 from pool sharks reads 30 between the ac lines and br2 reads about 12. Would this also account for the 8 amp slo-blo on the side of the head blowing? Once again, thank you for your help.

#44 5 years ago

Found a problem. I put pool sharks aux board in and fired it up with all fuses. J7 on the interconnect was smoking. Several pins were shorted to each other. Even after removing and cleaning there were shorted. Was very strange but some debris was between pins and was not visible. After scraping between them it went away. Waiting for the board to dry a little then I will see where I am at.

#45 5 years ago

Ok, back together and now the f5 fuse blows as soon as I hit the right flipper. Everything else seems ok.

#46 5 years ago

Flipper coil showing shorted, took out the diodes and it reads:
4.8 ohms to first lug
164.7 to second lug
Not sure if this is shorted.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Flipper coil showing shorted, took out the diodes and it reads:
4.8 ohms to first lug
164.7 to second lug
Not sure if this is shorted.

Those are good readings. Likely you had a shorted diode. Install 2 new diodes on the flipper coil.

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Those are good readings. Likely you had a shorted diode. Install 2 new diodes on the flipper coil.

Put 2 new diodes and it blew as soon as the flipper was pressed.

#49 5 years ago

Very strange but it reads shorted after blowing the fuse. Cut the diodes off and it read 4.9 and 164. Something fried the new diode. 1n4004

#50 5 years ago

Post a picture of each flipper assembly. Sounds like the one may have the wires swapped.

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