I just got my machine so I am thoroughly cleaning everything and the middle drops needed new decals. I just removed the whole drop target assembly since I wanted to clean it out. Once on the bench, removed the E-clips top and bottom of each target, but at the top watch out for the little spring that will disappear forever if you are not ready for it. The visible spring is the one that pulls it down, the other one is pushing the target forward at the top and is not easily seen while in the machine.

My Diner was pretty filthy when I bought it 2 months ago and I tore down the entire playfield (wow there are a lot of pieces) and am now putting it all back together. I swapped out all the coil sleeves and I have the PF only partially together but when I test the underside ball launcher it lobs them right out the back of the playfield and into the cabinet. I know once the back board is on with the juke box in place that won't happen but it seems like the juke box will take a pounding. It doesn't look like it has been beat up in the past. Is this normal?

There is certainly the shooter lane guide the turns the ball left as it reaches the back corner. I do not see anything to deflect a ball that is too high.

Is there an adjustment? The ball is riding up the rails correctly it just seems to be too fast now that I cleaned up the mechanism.

Same thing happened to me when I shopped mine. The new coil sleeve seemed to be the big difference, it would fire right into the juke box. I taped a 5/8" ring onto the coil stop. This reduces the stroke of the solenoid core just enough that the ball comes out fast but never flying too high. It also does not require any switch adjusting. When the coil slows down with wear, I can just pull the ring out again.

Here is a picture, the first ring covers the original stop, the second ring steps the coil plunger forward a bit. On my machine this works perfectly. I don't really get why its so powerful with just a clean coil sleeve though.

Coil Stop (resized).jpg

I had the switch in the cup fail in a similar way. As you know finally getting the ball swirling around should be met with cool sounds and a good score. In mine I could test it manually fine but the ball speed seemed to make it random. Finally switched it out and problem solved. Just need to get better at playing now.

What setting do people use for the outlane spacing? I swear this game dumps more unsaveable balls into the outlanes than any other. I have never narrowed the outlane spacing on any game but on this game I am tempted. I find ball control after ricocheting off the sling shots really tough on Diner and I lose many balls into the outlanes from that alone. This game is hard.

I agree, registering as a drain is pretty weird.

What sort of extra ball settings are people using? I like to set a scoring threshold where I get an extra ball, the manual seems to say 6,000,000. I would like to have more than one level but my Diner at least will not allow anything larger than 9,800,000 and having that and 4,900,000 seems like it makes the game too easy.

It is supposed to score like that. You will notice that after 2,500,000 it will score on every turn until a maximum of 3,500,000.

Tip the playfield up vertical, lift the playfield up out of the slots and sit it back down on the back of the slotted brackets. You can then lower it down but now the playfield can be slid forward another 6" or so when it is lowered. There is a light or two you have to watch when you do slide it forward. Then the back panel is quite a bit more accessible.

The non-obvious part is how to lift the playfield. I stand in front of the machine elbows on the side rails. I pry upward with my arms to lift it.

That is a tough one to get to, you have to remove the ramp which is pretty tangled up with the cup. My machine came with it missing, I cloned the one on the left side which a mirror image. I just used piano wire and pliers.

I asked above but I think it got lost in the noise. What score setting do people use for getting a free ball. I would like to get more than one free ball based on score but everything has to fit underneath 9,800,000 which is low.

I recently made a new one from blue spring steel. I don't have any pictures handy though. Your patched version is the right size, you really only need it to rivet to the flap, the bracket and extend a short way into the plastic ball trough/ramp. I madde mine with scissors and riveted it in place. I used the scissors to round the corners like the original. You can do all that, leave the ramp end a bit long and trim it to size while test fitting it.

That little mechanism is pretty finicky. Mine was like that when I got it. Now it works every time but vibration during play can make it fall. The machine lifts it back up immediately if that happens though.

All my Diner's large PF inserts were all over the map, tilted in different directions and some by quite a lot. I bought one of those HarborFreight 12" deep throat C-lamps, put wax paper on the topside, and small piece of hardwood over that. Removed the nearby sockets, wires, etc underneath. Put 2 part epoxy in a few spots around the insert perimeter, bridge over the insert on the underside with a scrap of wood, and clamped it. My epoxy would hold fast within 15 minutes. I could push them down by hand and they would spring up again immediately. Hitting them would have been pointless. The epoxy fix is permanent and pretty easy. Occasionally for various reasons I could not get one perfectly flush but definitely flat enough you would never think it was something to fix.

Definitely don't need to remove the playfield or really any connectors. From earlier in the thread. Doing this I could get plenty of space to remove the cup and the whole back panel.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/diner-clubowners-and-previous-owners-welcome/page/12#post-4348412

The lighting sequence looks quite nice. Is the Pinduino sensing game activity in any way? I watched the video and it seemed like the behaviour changed initially then I could not tell after that.

My Diner does not have that part at all. I have yet to have a ball land up there though.

Just got my Diner pre-order CPR email, but x3 somehow. I never got any achknowledgement at the time so not sure what happened. I have one PF on the way so there might be 2 extra slots in the list for people.

The clear on the one I just received is beautifully flat and seems more than adequate. I have a previous CPR, a Flash Gordon, where the clear is much thinner. I cannot picture wanting to add more clear to Diner.

Who has much success nudging when in the cup? I never feel like I am affecting anything. What is the best timing? Front to back.

Is there a guide for System 11 playfield removal? I have pulled many playfields on early Bally SS machines, but not on a System 11 before. At first glance it looks like there are 20+ connectors to remove all over the back box. It looks like I should separate the cabinet harnesses from the playfield ones, the whole mess is tie wrapped together and I would rather leave things connected that can stay that way.

Sounds like you are confirming the need to separate cabinet harnesses from playfield ones where they dangle down out of the head.

Any idea how many connectors I will have removed when I do it? There seem to be switch strobes and returns all times 2, lighting matrix, solenoid power lines.

I would say removing the ramps is easy but you need to make sure you know how the flaps on the top end of the left ramp connect to the continued ramp behind it for instance. The other ramps are fiddly but not hard. Removing the cup is challenging and you need to move the play field forward several inches. You will spend a huge amount of time not getting at things until the playfield is moved.

Cleaning the mechanism underneath is pretty straightforward but 2 things to keep in mind. On mine after changing the sleeve on the under playfield shooter lane mechanism, it got so strong it was firing the ball into the jukebox. I had already thrown out the sleeve so I had to limit its travel to slow it down. On the ramp diverter, that solenoid plunger needs to bottom out fully or the diverter sits there and makes a loud buzz whenever it operates.

I am talking about the under playfield shooter. The solenoid suddenly got a lot stronger with a clean sleeve. The spring is just a recoil spring to push the plunger back.

I suspect most of them have this issue. They won't stay if you push them down, on mine it was quite severe and you could flex them down visibly quite easily. What saved the playfield was the factory mylar that just tented up with the inserts. I followed Vid1900's approach to fix them. Removed light sockets and things in the way. I roughened up the perimeter wall of the insert just a bit (did not touch the part we see through). Applied 2 part epoxy underneath where the insert meets the wood around the perimeter using a cheap plumbing flux brush. Placed wax paper over the insert, just in case, then a small hardwood block. Did a similar block underneath and used a deep throat C clamp to hold in place until cured. I did two inserts at a time this way. I got mine down very close to level, no more fly balls hitting the flippers.

No need to pop anything out unless the whole thing is loose. On mine, the ends towards the bottom of the playfield were still bonded. The upper ends were disconnected and they had all ramped upward.

What I meant is I roughed up the vertical walls of the inserts. I then put epoxy bridging the vertical sidewall of the inserts onto the wood of the playfield.

I wish I had a good photo. 100% of everything is from below the playfield, hopefully the diagram makes it clear.

Insert (resized).jpg

I am not sure I understand, a Diner with a diamond plate PF (good deal), or just the PF for $3k (terrible deal).

It is made from the same thin metal stock as are used at the base of ramps. It cuts well with scissors I made my own.

I am still interested in one. I spend more on leds on most machines, so this seems worthwhile for me. When will they be for sale?

For anyone willing to experiment I RetroBrited my current cup. Since the yellowing is throughout and the RetroBrite can only really affect the surface you cannot fully cure the yellowing. Still, it removed probably 75-80% of the yellow, which might satisfy most people. I did the liquid style, dunked the cup and set it outside in the bright sun for about 3 hours.

I think there are two so the game can see both balls if they ever land there. However, still not sure why it matters.

It is usually something subtle that takes the energy out of the ball. On mine the previous owner had patched together the ramp heading to the cup and the ball was tripping on a ledge from the repair killing all the energy. In my case I replaced the ramp and the ball entry to the cup was way better. You might try doing some slow motion video of each part of the ball's path.

I RetroBrited my cup, the liquid version and left it in the sun. Much of the yellowing is near the surface and my cup came out much better, a little yellow left but not much.

I had to do this with many of of inserts. Press them down and they rise up again the next day. The problem is they are only adhered at one end as the factory adhesive has partially let go. I put wax paper on the PF, then the hard wood block. Put some 2 part epoxy on the lip of the insert in a couple of places. Clamp it for a few hours. I could do 2-3 inserts at a time with one clamped block if they were close to together. Used to have the ball jumping all over the places, now it runs much smoother.

Count me as the newest member of the group with lousy cup shots. I have had no complaints for the whole time I have owned my machine. A cradled shot would not hit 2.5million but on-the-fly shots well timed could maybe 25% of the time hit 2.5M, seemed about right. Over the last few weeks it seems I have lost 1-2 cup ball turns. Where I almost always got 1M I now get 750k, 2.5M is incredibly rare now. It seemed to me my left flipper was weaker than the right one.

Things I tried.

Jumpered across the EOS briefly to see if flipper power improved, not much change.
Swapped right side flipper coil/EOS/capacitor to left flipper, and vice versa, seemed the same (right one always seems stronger)
Powered left flipper from right flipper power and power return and vice versa. Other than flipper buttons being reversed (super hard to play), not much change.
Replaced coil sleeves - no change.
Discovered the right hand coil (now on the left side) had a bad diode, replace both diodes, new EOS, new capacitor - no real change.
Looked carefully at the right ramp, ramp is new as of when I rebuilt the machine, still looks shiny and nice and smooth.
No obvious issue in the cup. A hand launched ball up the ramp can get 20+ spins sometimes, 19 needed to hit the max of 3.5M

I am stumped, any ideas?

I took Buck 's advice and lowered the left flipper. I set it so the plastic portion of the flipper bat just covered over the alignment split pin. My shot maxed out at 3.5M with several extra spins. It was pretty comical how good it was. Next cup shot was 3.0M. So lowering the flipper position really did help. Then I started getting normal shots like 750k, and 1M as well. Studying the ball path I get the best results if the ball travels up the left side of the ramp without touching the left wall. That way it bounces once off the right wall and into the cup.

Overall my results still vary a lot and I noticed that the flipper bushing is quite loose compared to my other machines. It is also pretty bad at bump passes, the flipper does not sit firmly at rest so the ball just dies when the ball hits it. Looks like I need a rebuild.

Definitely remove it from below. I have never needed to touch those topside screws. I even buffed that part while still on the shaft.

If this only happens after a while is that coil getting really hot? It should feel warm, but not hot. Compare temperatures with the other flipper.

Coils don't go bad very often. Check the coil resistances they should be pretty similar, if they are it really cannot be the coil.

Diner seems confusing at first but is not that bad once you sort out the multiple layers of plastics. One big thing is to get in behind the back end of the playfield so you can remove the whole back panel. Lift the playfield up vertical on the pivots. About 4-6 inches below the pivots (when vertical) on the playfield bottom is open, with nothing there. Lift the playfield straight up vertically about 4" and then pivot it back down, it will now be hanging out past the front of the machine and the back panel is far enough forward you can reach in there and work on everything.

If the plunger does not seat firmly against the coil stop it will vibrate.

My Diner will go full mute when I rotate the pot. Same as my Taxi and High Speed.

Yeah, we all have this problem.

The lack of light leakage around the DINER inserts makes me think that is a new CPR playfield?

When I rebuilt my Diner I found the under playfield kicker would launch the ball into the jukebox. Replacing the coil sleeve was the culprit, the kicker was now too strong. I had thrown out the old coil sleeves so I could not go back. I put a small post ring on the resting coil stop so the coil plunger had a shorter stroke, it had been there now for 3 years.

You definitely do not want to keep hitting the jukebox.

It still has tons of power. I thought for sure I would need to remove the spacer after a while but it has never really slowed down. Never been an issue to make it into the saucer.

Mine does that, I just assumed it was to encourage me to beat the lowest score that would get me in the top 4 scores.

Based on how the food articles blink as you play, I always thought there were plans for additional rules that never made it into the game.

I always wondered what other modes they were thinking of to add, the game has quite a bit in it for a System 11, or at least on par with other System 11s.

For the catapult under the playfield I felt had 2 switches though so the game would never lose track of a ball. I tried dumping two balls in it simultaneously and 1 kicked out on the first firing, then the second one. But the game would function with only one as well.

I have removed the rear wall without removing the playfield. It really it is not very hard, just a little muscle needed to start. With the playfield upright as in the photo, I lean forward and with my forearms braced on the cabinet sides, I lift the playfield vertically up out of the pivots. You can see that below the pivots the playfield has nothing to really interfere with along the edges. I then pivot the playfield down laying on the cabinet pivots. The front edge of the play field can be forward by about 10”. I use something soft to lay the front of the playfield on wherever makes sense. You can now access the rear wall of the playfield with decent access. I did this to replace the cup, fix the EAT lamps and clean up messy wiring. The game was operable throughout the process.

2AC4E172-0C46-45E8-A53C-AA7E4FF1C0CA (resized).jpeg

It is operating correctly, spins 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 get you to 2.5M points. From 2.6-3.5M every spin counts for 100k.

Just for a comparison, I bought a cup ~2 years ago and also decided to Retrobrite my existing cup. My Retrobrited cup turned out so well, I never installed my new one. No it does not look as clear but is completely acceptable.

Check that the coil plunger is able to seat nicely on the coil stop. If the open gate prevents it from seating you get tons of buzzing and movement.

When you drop all 6 targets you should hear a sound effect of the getting that customer, is that happening? Is it registering the drop of all 6 targets?

Meaning it does not register target drops? Have you done the diagnostic switch test on the targets?

Do you have the manual? If not download it from ipdb.org. Go to the diagnostics tests that are actuated from the three buttons inside the coin door. You want to do the switch test and check all your switches. If all 6 of your targets are not responding there are likely others as well.

Looks very nice. Where did you get the nice polished lock down bar?