It will happen I think.

So I’m playing Diner today and I notice that the some of the playfield lights on the right hand side are out starting with the ice cream and working up.

I lifted the playfield and noticed that they are daisy chained. It starts with one, daisy chains to a few others but then gets bundled in and is difficult to trace.

I suspect there is a loose wire along the way. The left side works just fine.

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Check the J6 connector on the interconnect board in the backbox....(all yellow wires, on the right hand side).

I traced the wires and they all piggyback off each other and ends at the GI light under the jukebox.

Wires were a bit loose on the one under the jukebox so I reflowed some solder. No change. I gather that’s the beginning of the chain and if I can get that to work, the others should also work.

I reseated the J6 connector in the backbox but all wires were brown. No change unless I’m looking in the wrong place

Even stranger I noticed a fuse lying on the cabinet floor under the playfield which I had never seen before. I’m not sure how it got there. I don’t think there are any fuses on the playfield.

Why would the left side work but not the right? Could it be a bad fuse?

Could I swap a fuse that controls the left side to see if it’s a bad fuse on the right?

Start by reading here to get a grasp of it all maybe:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#General_Illumination_Issues

Thanks for the link. I was looking at it last night. It mentions the possibility of a blown fuse. I was also looking at the wrong connector yesterday in the backbox. The J6 connector with all the yellow wires looked good (nothing burnt).

I’ve also been reading about the GI playfield relay.

I removed mine to see if I should resolder any of the pins.

Look at the picture. It appears one of the solder connections on the bottom is burnt.
I’m not sure if that’s new or was there from a previous owner.

I resoldered the pins and now the GI lights appear very dimly lit. Looks like the relay board may be the culprit. If anyone has one for sale (5768-12243-00), let me know. It’s out of stock pretty much everywhere.

I would figure a bad relay board would have all GI lights or none at all, not half work half don’t.
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The plot thickens...

I should have done this already, but I took the working relay board from the light box and put it on the playfield and the playfield lights are still dim.

I took the burnt looking playfield relay and put it in the light box and it works perfectly.

So it appears the issue is not the playfield relay.

If it's some of the general illumination lights that are giving you grief, I would look at the yellow GI connectors on the interconnect board. (long skinny board on the bottom of the back box. If and of those connectors look toasty, they need to be re-pinned. My Diner had several connectors that had to be replaced on that board. If you see ANY burnt connectors, replace them.

I took a look at those and they look clean as a whistle.

I was working on the machine the other day and I had to lift the playfield. GI lights started having issues after that.

I gather something happened because of it.

I’m wondering if it could be a bad fuse?

When you first started posting about this, some of your GI were out. Then later when you did the relay swap, you said the GI were dim. Does that mean you gained some ground here? If so, I would closely inspect the connector plug on the PF relay. Maybe slightly burnt or loose? You got some resistance somewhere if they are going on, but too dim. Corroded fuse holder somewhere maybe, but fuses themselves usually either work or are blown.

To summarize...

I was working on the machine the other day and I had to lift the playfield. GI lights started having issues after that.

Resoldering the pins on the existing relay board as well as swapping it out with the one in the light box produces the same behavior: dim lights.

So yes, slight progress.

Last I looked, the playfield relay connector looked fine. I’ll try wiggling it when the machine is on to see if the light changes in any way.

Anyone know the molex head and pin size for the relay connector?

Mmmm, go back to those “clean as a whistle” yellow wired connector on the right of the interconnect board and double check them, remove the connector. That connector is double looped, and often times the double part of the loop falls out or gets crappy.

Pretty sure that would be .156 connectors just like all the board connectors. If you have never done it before, make sure you get a suitable crimper and practice a few times on some scrap wire. Trifurcons are the way to go.

One link I saw regarding a Cyclone issue with the right GI lights being out suggested replacing fuse.

Where would the fuse for the GI be located in the backbox?

Thanks.

If the lights were working then quit,i would look for a broken wire on that string that starts at top right of playfield .Follow the string from lamp to lamp down to lower right side

I got that wrong the white/yellow & white string starts @ right return lane and daisy chains from socket to socket up to top right side

After soldering the pins on the relay board, the lights are on, but so dim they may as well be off.

Would dimly lit lights be indicative of a broken wire?

For kicks, I soldered the pins on the back of the interconnect board at J6

Still dim

I also wiggled the playfield relay connector. No difference

I also traced the lamp wires from lamp to lamp. No visible burnt or broken wires.

This is driving me nuts...

Do any lights on that string work ? At interconnect check incoming voltage j6-7& j6-2 if that's ok check fuse F2 and then check outgoing power j9-7 & j9-6

There's a molex connector with the 4 yellow GI wires, coming off the power transformer... make sure that connector is clean and tightly connected. A loose or poor connection there can cause dim lights on one or more of the GI circuits. I had this exact issue with my Whirlwind, and that was the problem.

Pintime, thank you.

I replaced fuse F2 and all lights are working

I would like to thank everyone else for their input

Coffee cup mold project is not dead yet. I’m making progress. Going to take some more time but I think we can get the mold out of Chicago. Talked with PPS tonight.

So I’m replacing the fuses today and when I get to F8, the fuse mount broke off. It took very little pressure for this to come off.

I have the part on order and ordered a few extra just to have.

Stupid question but process is basically desolder, remove mount, install mount, then solder?

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Yes

Thats good news. While your at it, please ask Rick about the Black Rose cannon shell. Many Thanks.

I pulled the main board to reflow some solder on the pins.

I put it back in and when screwing on the top right screw, I didn’t realize that a small wire was behind it.

Once I realized it, I removed the screw.

I took a look at the wire and it was slightly chafed and I could slightly see some exposed wire underneath (silver?), but it looked intact. I can’t tell if it’s Blue/brown or blue/black

I put a piece of electrical tape on it.

Would liquid electrical tape work better?

Thanks

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So I purchased a fuse kit from Marco as well as a fuse socket for location F8 on the Aux Power Driver board

I carefully replaced all the fuses and fuse socket. I made sure the correct amp fuses are in the right location.

Powered on the machine and all get is solid lights. No boot sequence or sounds whatsoever. The clock does not spin.

I checked the fuses again and noticed that the F2C fuse on the Aux was cracked. I replaced that fuse. Powered on again and get the same thing.

No boot sequence or sounds. No lights on any of the pcb’s in the backbox
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Once you get a repeat blown fuse, you may prefer to move to a fuse breaker situation while you track this down, unless you can afford/have unlimited fuses.

I have 1-2 "permanently" installed in a few games, where I gave up on tracking something down, and the failure rate is low... So it's good to be prepared for a wide range of sizes.

-mof

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-and-using-a-fuse-breaker
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/slow-blow-fuse-breaker-reference-mouser-links

Howdy gang!! Please add me as a member to this solid group. I love my machine that was fully restored by the wizard Keith Holbrook.

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I should clarify that when I replaced the cracked fuse and I get the same thing, I meant the lights are the same. Not another cracked fuse

Test your fuses in power supply,it appears your missing control voltage .Possible bad fuse or fuse clips or wiring connections at power board

Looking forward to CPR announcing the release of their playfields for Diner. Can't be long now.

Anyone know the amperage for the power supply fuse near the coin door?

6A

Edit to correct my previous misinformation, I misread mine. Mine is 8A

Hmmm.

I must have missed the sticker on it the first time. Says 4.

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Reimport originally wired for 220? European games would use a 4amp fuse. North American use 8amp.

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I replaced fuses F4 and F5 on the power supply board, but left the backbox door open. Sure enough both fuses blew.

So it appears to be an issue with the power supply board. Not sure exactly what the issue is.

I’ll look into getting a replacement board

Can anyone recommend someone good who repairs these?

Thanks

I read back a ways but maybe didnt see all the posts related to your issue. So if this was done or mentioned already then just ignore...

I would have a closer look at your bridge rectifier on the PS. See if that has failed on ya.

I swapped the power supply board with a new one and the same 2 fuses blew.

Just joined the club!

After years of looking, finally a great game has found a new home.

Game has CPR glass backglass.
Its stunning in person.

Now to get a new CPR playfield!

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Looks great Tom! So glad it found a new home. I'll miss it but... My Wife is happy to see it go, to make room for Checkpoint. If you can believe it, her favorite pin, LoL!! Hope to cross paths soon!

Thank you so much for selling us such a beautiful game!

Your new Checkpoint is awesome! I wouldnt mind having one myself.

The Diner plays perfect!

Pinballgoddess cant stop playing it.

We love it!

Thanks again!

Shoot, the one that's in there looks pretty mint.

Joined the club today. Yellow habitrail, diamond plate playfield, and plays great!

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Congrats!!!
Diner is one of the best system 11 games out there.