(Topic ID: 179285)


By Russell

2 years ago

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  • 254 posts
  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by snaroff
  • Topic is favorited by 8 Pinsiders


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#7 2 years ago

"There is no such thing as a 'non-dimpled' pinball playfield. Playfields can have less initial dimpling simply dependent on playfield design, ramps, and impact points, but any new owner should be aware that until compression of the wood is equalized based on the amount of standard 'wear and tear' of gameplay, a playfield will continue to dimple throughout its lifetime. Playfield material construction (not ink screening or coatings) has remained virtually unchanged for over 50 years. What makes dimples more noticeable on modern games is their clearcoat design and the fact that until the early 1990s very few people purchased games NIB."

#65 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Here would be the best example in the world.
A Steel magnet core (you know, made of solid steel) is covered in dimples from the hardened steel ball.
Now tell me of ANY wood that is harder than solid steel?
Take your time, I'll wait.....

Compare the other photo.
Potential owners need to be concerned with real problems.

This particular game has been on location for LESS than three weeks.

Dimples on magnet core and wood, but dimples don't cause the PF damage, in this short amount of time unless there are imperfections.

Operator is not happy at his $10K "investment", but it is not due to dimpling.
Certain problems are not resolved, as this is not only game I have seen similiar issues, but three.

Are owners overjoyed at the spent $10-15K?
Is this what was expected?
Did people really believe the problem was "resolved"?
Do they understand the reasons why?
Would you accept this outcome for a similiar commercial product in less than 3 weeks?

Owners make their own choices, or ask for assistance when needed from those that have experience, and most that are willing to help.

Don't just throw down the gauntlet.


#77 2 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I decided to put this to the test. I removed the apron from my BSD that has a very smooth playfeld and proceeded to drop balls in that virgin area and sure enough, dimples just like on my new Batman playfield. Nothing to worry about as long as the clearcoat stays put.

Yes, but some people still will not believe you, or ask the same exact question again in less than 6 months.

This is despite reading this for the first time on a bulletin board newsgroup before the birth of RGP using a dail up modem in 1992, or actually doing any small bit of research.

#125 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

years from now, if you still care and your playfield is worn. Get it restored.

I think many already may know this answer, or at least what happens to most in the long term. People that restore games, do not ask the basic thread question, but a person has to get to that point in the hobby to understand anyway. Unfortunately, many do not.

At this point I have seen the dimple question argued at shows, which is actually quite entertaining until you realize the amount of money that is being spent with little understanding of what is being purchased. It is one of the primary reasons other problem areas have not been totally addressed by manufacturers, simply being able to find methods to reduce costs. There are plenty of resources for research. Manufacturers are not trying to purposely screw over owners, but they need to be aware of the base product (ie a pinball machine), until this "magical potion" listed below arrives to the market.

Personally, I am bit surprised manufacturers have not already started to try and market these type of products already.

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#161 2 years ago
Quoted from someoneelse:

When the ball really took up speed - around the era of BK2000 - clear coat became very necessary. PFs on modern games wouldn't last even close to 5 years on route without clear.

Games only require clearcoated PFs if they are not regularly maintenanced, due to lazy operators.
This includes the basic fundamentals such as wiping playfields and replacing balls, not just emptying coinboxes. You do not even need to wax a playfield every time when serviced, just keep it clean. No home use game "needs" clearcoat, and it would solve a lot of problems as as long as quality ink screening processes are used.

There are plenty of games that were equally fast in the mid 80s without automotive clearcoat that used lacquer. If you add up all the games that use a "Tuff Coat" lacquer from the 60s and 70s with hundreds of thousands of plays, they are not all worn down to bare wood, if you substitute number of additional plays against reduced "pure speed" reduced plays.

This is yet ANOTHER inaccurate pinball myth.

Manufacturers did castrate themselves.

They did not "invent" clearcoat due to faster game designs requirements.

Clearcoat, "diamond plate", or other similiar named processes were designed to make operators lives "easier" (ie lazy) especially in hard to reach designs, not provide pretty playfields to private owners. It could be considered an attempt at "innovation" in some ways. This can be referenced in many manufacturer advertisements for sales, if the response is "prove it". This is side effect today of the modern market catered to new owners asking for thicker clear coats, which has consequences such as adhesion problems and chipping, all of which has been seen in the past. If it was not for a few people left in the industry that are also hobbyists and historians, people would be making up even larger sources of crazy ideas of why things happen.

Manufacturers tried other playfield methods none of which were major jumps forward in durability including plastic playfields, not just mylar.

It is like saying games MUST have protectors everywhere in a home environment, which in many cases is extreme overkill. Generally a title only had a few potential trouble areas based on design, such as exposed magnet cores.

Think about other areas of pinball design, not playfields. Right now we are moving backwards again in the industry to a point where we are only a few steps from cabinets being completely made from sawdust and MDF. It saves a lot money, but the durability and construction is poor. Most know what is, and we all hate it. So why is the price for a new game still significantly higher? R&D? Technology? Game design? Features? None of these aspects really are proper justifications.
For $15K, you should get at least wood cabinet, a real backglass, and a properly cure and treated wood playfield with quality ink screening, clear if opted, along with enough spare parts to keep it running for 20+ years. None of this was included.

The simpest explanation in life is usually the correct one.

"Every time the pinball industry thrives, it struggles, as it competes against its own games from the past."

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