(Topic ID: 179285)

Dimples.


By Russell

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 254 posts
  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by snaroff
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 63 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

dimples (resized).jpg
2fa7c96940408e7c43657bca7a41b8535b91e0bf (1) (resized).jpg
received_10212277069096738 (resized).jpeg
image-33 (resized).jpg
dd441f3f7ee5ff9587bf4a42d82dc9ca58987e81 (resized).jpg
IMG_1253 (resized).jpg
IMG_1252 (1) (resized).jpg
woz2 (resized).JPG
woz1 (resized).JPG
woz-dimples (resized).jpg
1fb5387c61af6b55f44e1400b04aa5eedad5c4da (resized).jpg
IMG_4842 (resized).jpg
IMG_4840 (resized).jpg
IMG_4841 (resized).jpg
IMG20170128214744 (resized).jpg
IMG20170128214740 (resized).jpg

There are 254 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 6.
#201 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=1800&year1=1978&year2=2016
A game like KISS by Bally was $1,800 in 1978.
That inflates to $6,625 in 2016 dollars.
-
In 1978 a game paid for itself in 3 months (with about 7,000 plays).
In 2016 a game pays for itself in about 12 months (with about 7,000 plays).
-
In 1978 when a game was no longer earning, and could not be sold to another operator; you would take it to the dump.
In 2016 when a game is no longer earning, you sell it to a collector.

Decent analysis vid.

#202 2 years ago
Quoted from PBFan:

Decent analysis vid.

Probably the same one Stern used for their price increases.

#203 2 years ago

Curious, how do JJP or Spooky playfields look after a couple of plays? Would love to see some pics.

#204 2 years ago
Quoted from fishbone:

Curious, how do JJP or Spooky playfields look after a couple of plays? Would love to see some pics.

Here is the day you unbox it:

1fb5387c61af6b55f44e1400b04aa5eedad5c4da (resized).jpg

And here it is a few months latter will millions of dimples:

woz-dimples (resized).jpg

#205 2 years ago

all I see is a shitload of wood grain, which stands out more than dimples ever do.

#206 2 years ago

Still no takers on the ball drop challenge but I did get 2 more downvotes.

#207 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

Still no takers on the ball drop challenge but I did get 2 more downvotes.

You saw the ball drop under the Shadow apron, yeah?

#208 2 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

You saw the ball drop under the Shadow apron, yeah?

Yes but was that from 2" or 2'. That is only one playfield with nothing to compare it to. I suggest a test from the exact same distances on several playfields of different eras. I have a original Gorgar, a CPR silver knight, and the original playfield from the black knight I would be willing to test under both aprons if someone with a newer Stern will be willing to do the same. I also have a Chicago coin EM machine at my other place I could also do next time I make the trip.

#209 2 years ago

anyone have a speakeasy with the bally plastic playfield? Lets see if that dimples. )

#210 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Every ball ever played hits the shooter lane, so I always Mylar it when the game is first unboxed.
Every ball ever played hits the outhole, so this is an extreme high-wear location too.
Just like on a car, clear has a hard time sticking to sharp edges.
If the outhole is chipping, I take some sandpaper and round over the outhole edge, then I brush on some clear.

Nice tip Vid! Exactly what clear should I use? My Met PRO is coming and I would like to do this to the outhole area. Thanks!!!

#211 2 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Nice tip Vid! Exactly what clear should I use? My Met PRO is coming and I would like to do this to the outhole area. Thanks!!!

Cliffy sells a protector for the outhole.

I put a piece of mylar down first, then I put the cliffy on.

Here's a video showing the protector for the

#212 2 years ago
Quoted from Trekkie1978:

Cliffy sells a protector for the outhole.
I put a piece of mylar down first, then I put the cliffy on.
Here's a video showing the protector for the outhole:ยป YouTube video

Very nice! Thanks!

#213 2 years ago

Some people think dimples are cute.......

#214 2 years ago
Quoted from fishbone:

Curious, how do JJP or Spooky playfields look after a couple of plays? Would love to see some pics.

Found a WOZ offered for sale with 160 plays (playfield protector installed)

woz1 (resized).JPG

woz2 (resized).JPG

#215 2 years ago

This is ac/dc after a few thousand plays whats your point

IMG_1252 (1) (resized).jpg

IMG_1253 (resized).jpg

-1
#216 2 years ago
Quoted from JY64:

This is ac/dc after a few thousand plays whats your point

Somebody asked for pics and he shared them. Easy on the trigger, Mr. Stern Defender.

#217 2 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Somebody asked for pics and he shared them. Easy on the trigger, Mr. Stern Defender.

Take a second look he quoted his own post he was not answering a others post

#218 2 years ago

Is there additional mylar over those inserts on AC/DC, or is the album multiball insert lifting?

Oh, yeah, it's his own question, but he found the pics and then posted them to save anybody else the trouble. Sometimes when you ask a question, if you find the answer first, you post it so people don't waste time looking for you. It's a common courtesy.

#219 2 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Is there additional mylar over those inserts on AC/DC, or is the album multiball insert lifting?
.

I think its just the edge. before the days of thick clearcoat on everything seeing the edge is normal and not necessarily lifting.

#220 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

I think its just the edge. before the days of thick clearcoat on everything seeing the edge is normal and not necessarily lifting.

Mine isn't that way, but I have a premium. Did they get an extra coat over the pro?

3 months later
#221 2 years ago

I found this very informative - I'm neither a newbie or a pansy, but recently bought my first low play pin (GB pro), after 10 years of owning well used W/B or Sterns that had each passed through at least 2 or more hands (most have been routed) before getting to me.

When I picked up the GB it only had about 50 plays on it, so I've been watching the dimples develop as I play it - but since I just planned to keep it for a long time it really did not bother me. But I had no idea that continued play would eventually even it out and make it less noticeable.

Vid and others, thanks for the education.

4 months later
#222 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There are NO excessively deep dimples.
None.
>>>>>> ALL PLAYFIELDS DIMPLE THE SAME <<<<<
-
There are small and large dimples depending on the velocity of the ball upon impact.
After millions of impacts the playfields are beaten flat.
That's it.
After 70 years, no one has ever found a playfield with excessively deep dimples, cuz there are none.

Sorry, I call B.S. if that's the case shouldn't my documented HUO STtng with 1092 plays. That launches balls from cannons directly at the playfield. Look like this BM66?

Instead of how it actually looks? A few minor dimples here and there. Only noticable at a certain light. And mostly by stand up targets. But not major crators all over the place.
And I have added microscopic dimples while playing it. But they look nothing like a modern Stern's playdough.

Because you can't tell me it's entirely evened out after 1000 plays.

dd441f3f7ee5ff9587bf4a42d82dc9ca58987e81 (resized).jpg
image-33 (resized).jpg
received_10212277069096738 (resized).jpeg

#223 2 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Sorry, I call B.S. if that's the case shouldn't my documented HUO STtng with 1092 plays. That launches balls from cannons directly at the playfield. Look like this BM66?
Instead of how it actually looks? A few minor dimples here and there. Only noticable at a certain light. And mostly by stand up targets. But not major crators all over the place.
And I have added microscopic dimples while playing it. But they look nothing like a modern Stern's playdough.
Because you can't tell me it's entirely evened out after 1000 plays.

Wow is that a picture of the moon?

#224 2 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Sorry, I call B.S. if that's the case shouldn't my documented HUO STtng with 1092 plays. That launches balls from cannons directly at the playfield. Look like this BM66?

You are joking right?

Look at the SOLID STEEL magnet core.

See how it's starting to become dimpled?

If solid steel is dimpling under those hardened steel balls, how could the maple wood fare any better ?????

What wood is harder than solid steel?

LOL

#225 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You are joking right?
Look at the SOLID STEEL magnet core.
See how it's starting to become dimpled?
If solid steel is dimpling under those hardened steel balls, how could the maple wood fare any better ?????
What wood is harder than solid steel?
LOL

I'm not saying wood is harder than steel. I'm calling B. S. On "all playfields dimple the same"
Because they obviously and provenly don't.

#226 2 years ago

You are over thinking it. All "woods" of the same type do dimple the same. Take the term "playfield" out of the equation. It's just confusing people. Playfields made of different wood could dimple differently. Those made of the same wood will not dimple differnetly.

Do we have to refer back to the Janka hardness page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

#227 2 years ago
Quoted from erak:

I'm not saying wood is harder than steel. I'm calling B. S. On "all playfields dimple the same"
Because they obviously and provenly don't.

It's science.

I'll take the apron off of any unrestored game you have (in order to find a section of uncompressed maple), drop a ball from the same height, and it will leave the same dimple as it will on any other game.

If you have a playfield that won't dimple, I'll send it to a lab at my expense to have it analyzed, like an old Stradivarius.

#228 2 years ago

I'm only going to worry about dimples when the craters become so big the ball doesn't have enough momentum to leave the crater and gets stuck in the middle of the playfield.

#229 2 years ago

I'm not it saying it won't dimple. I'm saying they do not dimple to the same extent. Do you have a new Stern?

If you do, let's do an experiment. I will remove the apron from my STTNG. And get a paper towel tube and drop it down it directly on the playfield.
Do the same with any modern Stern. Let's see if all playfields are created equal. And dimple equally.

Because according to your experience my playfield should look the same.
Which it obviously currently doesn't. And never will.

#230 2 years ago

There is too many dimple threads I can't keep track. I'm in the playfield hardness is lower on some machines and they are more susceptible to damage. It's higher on some and they have minor dimples that are almost invisible.

#231 2 years ago

The new shinier clear coat shows off dimples alot easier I think. It probably just looks worse due to that.

#232 2 years ago
Quoted from erak:

I'm not it saying it won't dimple. I'm saying they do not dimple to the same extent. Do you have a new Stern?
If you do, let's do an experiment. I will remove the apron from my STTNG. And get a paper towel tube and drop it down it directly on the playfield.
Do the same with any modern Stern. Let's see if all playfields are created equal. And dimple equally.
Because according to your experience my playfield should look the same.
Which it obviously currently doesn't. And never will.

They will obviously dimple the same, if they are made of the same species of wood.

Some 30 year old piece of wood might be dryer than a newly milled piece, one section of the wood might have tighter grain than another section 12" away, but on average, one piece of maple is not going to be any harder than another.

The Janka test is how wood is graded for hardness.

A steel ball is pressed into a piece of wood, until it is buried 1/2 way.

The amount of pressure it takes to do that is it's Janka Hardness.

Sugar Maple ( what playfields are made of) has a Janka Hardness of 1450

Sure you could find a knotty section, or tightly grained section that has a 1460 hardness, but if you test the whole board, 1450 is going to be your average.

That's the facts.

-1
#233 2 years ago

Ok. It must be true.

A quick search on Google and not all plywood is created equal.

Facts:
"Advances in technology have changed the thickness of veneer from the 1/8 inch of 1725 to the standard 1/64 inch or even 1/110 used in some modern productions."

"Today with hardwood plywood, any material can be between the face and back veneers and still be called plywood. The core material is specified separately from the face, so you can have maple plywood with a veneer core (which is similar to construction-type plywood) "

So sorry, but the wood used now is different.

Hence the more severe dimpling.

#234 2 years ago
Quoted from erak:

A quick search on Google and not all plywood is created equal.

OMG, one Google search and you are now the plywood expert!!!!

You must be flooded with offers to head the APA.

Plywood have been available with different core woods and face woods since the 1930s

All that Teak furniture your grandma has from the 50s and 60s has a Birch core.

Quoted from erak:

So sorry, but the wood used now is different.

Prove that Stern is using a different plywood.

#235 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

OMG, one Google search and you are now the plywood expert!!!!
You must be flooded with offers to head the APA.
Plywood have been available with different core woods and face woods since the 1930s
All that Teak furniture your grandma has from the 50s and 60s has a Birch core.

Prove that Stern is using a different plywood.

Prove that they are using the same.

#236 2 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Prove that they are using the same.

I take it you missed Gary's speech at Expo last year???

#237 2 years ago

Procrastinator did a hardness test on several playfields using a rebound tester.

There are differences in the hardness and obvious results; Ghostbusters appears to have one of the softest playfields.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-bashing-justified/page/10#post-3963817

#238 2 years ago

that BM66 looks like a reaction in the clear (fish eyes) not dimples. I have seen that many times when the wood surface is not prepped right. you can tell since the dimples are not round and are different shapes relative to each other.

all wood dimples, it sucks. what can we do about it? really nothing. people who clearcoat with tons of hardner have issues with the clear not moving with inserts or cracking out of holes and wear lines being way more noticable. there needs to be a delicate balance between flexibility and durability and I think for the most part we were in a good spot until the recent ghosting saga that popped up. and you know what, this is probably from stern trying different things to appease all the crazy people who call up and complain. leave what has worked over the last 30 years alone. it's fine as is.

I have installed ~25 cleared repro, NOS, & restored playfields from just about everyone past and present, except Kruzman (he does great work, just never had what I needed (yet ) and Neo (I have a good friend who has). Hard clear is the absolute worst. I don't want to name names but some people and repro houses I will never use again. IMO the best was anyone who has picked Bill Davis' brain and stayed true to the more rubbery coating of diamond plate. Yah it dimples and flexes and all the stuff it's supposed to do.

Vid pretty much summed up the plywood thing as being a non-issue. and i agree with this enough that it's not worth debating about. i think that older playfields lose their moisture a bit and do get a bit harder, but what are you going to do? dry these in a kiln to condition them just right and hope they don't warp? they will still dimple just maybe 90% of what a new playfield would dimple and cost twice as much.

[edit]
the rebound test is pretty interesting. i have never had a new stern with a playfield that didn't hold up like older games, but then the newest stern i have purchased was TF....and despite a terrible playfield warp i had to exchange the pf for....it was fine. if they are using ply with sub-par top layers as a cost cutting measure that would be..sucky.
[/edit]

/old man yells at cloud.jpg

-c

1 year later
#239 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Here would be the best example in the world.
A Steel magnet core (you know, made of solid steel) is covered in dimples from the hardened steel ball.
Now tell me of ANY wood that is harder than solid steel?
Take your time, I'll wait.....
[quoted image]

My magnet looks the same after 7 days of playing at home.
(congrats for the picture it is hard to take).

So it is normal ? I can't complain about this ?

#240 5 months ago

I find these endless dimple threads to be really asinine. They are typically just another form of Stern bashing. Just wqnted to chime in and say that I recently played a brand new JJP Pirates LE and guess what? It was getting dimples. I have a low-play HEP Addams that was restored some years ago and guess what? It gets dimples.

It should come as no surprise when you buy brand new pins with clear coats like glass that they're going to dimple, and yet an endless stream of Pinsiders are still very surprised and feel compelled to come on here and bash Stern.

#241 5 months ago

In my opinion some of the older Sterns are holding up great. See post 215 of the AC/DC. I have the same machine and is in equal shape, barely a dimple anywhere, even where the cannon shoots. My Metallica a few more dimples but nothing major. My new MBr LE- dimpled like crazy after only a couple hundred plays. In reality it is ALL the manufacturers and the fact that the wood they are using just isn't as hard as it was in the past. I also believe there was a debate about the clear coat being used now that although environmentally healthy is not as hard as before. Not sure what the solution is other than to just play, enjoy and be happy we have our big boy toys -

#242 5 months ago
Quoted from zpinman370:

In my opinion some of the older Sterns are holding up great. See post 215 of the AC/DC. I have the same machine and is in equal shape, barely a dimple anywhere, even where the cannon shoots. My Metallica a few more dimples but nothing major. My new MBr LE- dimpled like crazy after only a couple hundred plays. In reality it is ALL the manufacturers and the fact that the wood they are using just isn't as hard as it was in the past. I also believe there was a debate about the clear coat being used now that although environmentally healthy is not as hard as before. Not sure what the solution is other than to just play, enjoy and be happy we have our big boy toys -

I admit, I was worried about buying Deadpool, because there is a Ghostbusters at the local arcade which isn't just dimpled. It's WAY beyond that. It didn't smooth out. It's worse than the "orange peel" look. Atrocious.

But my Deadpool is fine. Yes there's dimples like most pins, but it's nothing like that. They're really tiny compared to GB dimples. Something changed for the better in the manufacturing.

#243 5 months ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

I admit, I was worried about buying Deadpool, because there is a Ghostbusters at the local arcade which isn't just dimpled. It's WAY beyond that. It didn't smooth out. It's worse than the "orange peel" look. Atrocious.
But my Deadpool is fine. Yes there's dimples like most pins, but it's nothing like that. They're really tiny compared to GB dimples. Something changed for the better in the manufacturing.

I know what ya mean, have seen that well. Dimpling on pinball machines is normal but it seems like modern Sterns dimple far more severely then their past titles. Something changed with either the wood, clear, and or clear process.

2fa7c96940408e7c43657bca7a41b8535b91e0bf (1) (resized).jpg

#244 5 months ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I know what ya mean, have seen that well. Dimpling on pinball machines is normal but it seems like modern Sterns dimple far more severely then their past titles. Something changed with either the wood, clear, and or clear process.
[quoted image]

Yeah the GB is worse than that but the Deadpool has just tiny, tiny dimples. Nothing like those full indentations that BM66 and GB have.

#245 5 months ago

I think dimples are sexy...

dimples (resized).jpg
#246 5 months ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

They are typically just another form of Stern bashing.

Actually I just paid 10k$ for a stern Game and ship it for 9000 miles.
So actually I am not trying to bash anyone but I am concerned about the future of this expensive game.

#247 5 months ago
Quoted from matbkk:

Actually I just paid 10k$ for a stern Game and ship it for 9000 miles.
So actually I am not trying to bash anyone but I am concerned about the future of this expensive game.

So can I complain with stern and maybe request a playfield wich has been manufactured for playing pinball with a ball ?

#248 5 months ago
Quoted from matbkk:

So can I complain with stern and maybe request a playfield wich has been manufactured for playing pinball with a ball ?

No, dimples are normal and Stern won't do anything about it.
Your dealer should have told you this.
If it bothers you then buy a playfield protector for it.. this will offer some protection (but is another discussion...)

#249 5 months ago

Again, I say take a ball peen hammer to a piece of wood over and over. Does it even out? It doesn't, it falls apart. That is what your Stern PF will do. The older PFs never had this kind of damage. I have swapped out several W/B PFs that have had no dimpleing at all and were flat as formica. But just keep telling yourselves that the Stern games are awesome and of the same quality as the older games and paying 8-10k for them.

#250 5 months ago

I would like to hear what Chris Hudgins has to say. He deals with playfield of all kinds and eras. I will take his word as gospel. I don't think he will chime in however.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 69.99
Lighting - Led
PinballBulbs
$ 74.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
Id Rather Play Pinball
$ 229.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Id Rather Play Pinball
$ 24.00
Playfield - Other
Pin Monk
6,500
$ 89.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Houston, TX
There are 254 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 6.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside