(Topic ID: 291962)

Diminished Value- Games with Pooling and Chipping?

By Pinball-Wiz

7 months ago


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Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by thechakapakuni
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 months ago

I got a trade offer today for a Wonka, but the game has pooling on several posts and a few chips near 2 of the posts. Just wondering how to value the game now with this vs one that does not have it?

The damage really is sore on the eyes and I'm not sure I want the game or the trade.. how are you guys valuing games with these issues?

I have seen the GNR thread on this, so it appears to happened to several titles.

Has JJP done anything for the buyers of these games to make up for the problem?

Sorry if this has been covered or beat up, I honestly have not been a part of that discussion and have a deal I'm trying to decide on.

#2 7 months ago

Since pooling/chipping/dimpling/cratering/ghosting complaints went huge and mainstream about 4-5 years ago, I have yet to see a SINGLE "fuct playfield" discount on a for sale ad. I guess the closest was the GNR for sale for the exact same price it sold for new? That hardly seems like a defect fire sale though.

Maybe people just aren't selling them? Or maybe nobody really gives a shit about these minor issues that you don't notice unless you are looking for them and they just want to play pinball? Also, lots of complainers ended up with free playfields for their trouble, not to install, but just to follow the games around from owner to owner till the end of time as playfield insurance in case the entire playfield just collapses on itself one day.

Who knows. It just seems like the worries people had that minor playfield issues were gonna leave them underwater on games was misplaced.

#3 7 months ago

If a game commonly has an issue, then it doesn't really affect the value. If you aren't going to pay going rate someone else will. Games that don't have the issue will typically pull more. BSD planking playfields are a good example of this.

If a game has issues that are uncommon to that title, then yes it does diminish the value.

#4 7 months ago

I would pass or have to get a monster 40-50% off normal pricing before I would touch it. That is just me, but there are lots of suckers on here.

#5 7 months ago
Quoted from woody76:

I would pass or have to get a monster 40-50% off normal pricing before I would touch it. That is just me, but there are lots of suckers on here.

Never understood the diaper wiper mentality. Game has to be mint or I won't touch it. We play games batting large ball bearings around at speed. Things get damaged.

#6 7 months ago
Quoted from dung:

Never understood the diaper wiper mentality. Game has to be mint or I won't touch it. We play games batting large ball bearings around at speed. Things get damaged.

Funny you should say this- When I'm selling, it seems like buyers are ridiculous. I had a guy point out superficial scratches on my lockdown bar on a 6 month old Iron Maiden and acted like it was the end of the world for him.

The reality is, people DO take imperfections into account from my experiences... no matter how small or ridiculous. That being said, I don't consider chips in the playfield art "small or ridiculous". This is something to be considered for sure.

As a buyer, I'm not as crazy AS LONG AS THE PRICE REFLECTS CONDITION.

Do I believe a pooled/chipped game is worth as much as one without? Not only heck no, but hell no.

#7 7 months ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

As a buyer, I'm not as crazy AS LONG AS THE PRICE REFLECTS CONDITION.
Do I believe a pooled/chipped game is worth as much as one without? Not only heck no, but hell no.

Great. Now all you have to do is find someone willing to give you a significant discount on a late-model game due to these issues.

So far these sellers don't seem to exist.

#8 7 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Great. Now all you have to do is find someone willing to give you a significant discount on a late-model game due to these issues.
So far these sellers don't seem to exist.

I'll reverse that for ya- try and find a buyer for a game with chips/pooling that acts like the imperfections are OK/worth the same price.

The wildcard here is how hard the game is to find right now.

#9 7 months ago
Quoted from dung:

Never understood the diaper wiper mentality. Game has to be mint or I won't touch it. We play games batting large ball bearings around at speed. Things get damaged.

I am fine with $3000 games having some issues and I prefer games with bumps and bruises, but if I am dropping $8-10K on a pinball machine it needs to be problem free.

#10 7 months ago

Well his trade price seems fair as it's less than a 100% one, so I think I'm going to do the deal. Wonka seems like a nice game to settle into right now.

I've actually had a few people tell me that they would never consider a game that was pooled/chipped! oh my...

#11 7 months ago

If it was a stern pro that goes for 5300 in excellent condition on the used market id list it for 4999

#12 7 months ago

I mostly agree with dung and think it depends on the amount of damage, just like with older games. Minor pooling around 1 or 2 posts? I’d probably ignore it. Major pooling with chipping and loss of art? The seller should have asked the manufacturer for a new playfield.

#13 7 months ago
Quoted from swampfire:

The buyer should have asked for a new playfield.

If the seller got a replacement playfield. It should go with the game if he didn't install it. Not sell the replacement playfield separately.

LTG : )

#14 7 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

If the seller got a replacement playfield. It should go with the game if he didn't install it. Not sell the replacement playfield separately.
LTG : )

Did JJP offer new playfields to those that had problems with major chipping/pooling?

#15 7 months ago

I recently had the opportunity to purchase a WW (casual discussions mostly) and it came up the playfield had chipping around one of the posts. Saw pictures.

Since this has become somewhat of a hot topic, and I'm a fan of JJ's work, can someone really pinpoint the cause(s)?
I've heard that people play the pins with a loose post and the banging from the ball causes the post to shift violently and thus, causes playfield chipping (which would most certainly be operator error). I've also heard the playfields don't cure enough (which would be manufacture defect).

I'd love to get my hands on a WW but this seems to be the most common pin I heard about having playfield issues regarding chipping.

#16 7 months ago
Quoted from swampfire:

I mostly agree with dung and think it depends on the amount of damage, just like with older games. Minor pooling around 1 or 2 posts? I’d probably ignore it. Major pooling with chipping and loss of art? The seller should have asked the manufacturer for a new playfield.

This exactly is how I feel ... minor pooling, I personally wouldn't lose any sleep. Chipping is a whole different beast and I would be beyond upset to see that happen on my machine (at least while it is basically new) and would expect a replacement playfield.

I was lucky to get a Wonka NIB with no pooling or chipping issues (knock on wood, have been playing it a couple of months), just an SE "born" in Feb of 2020. But to me, the biggest issue I have is the dimples. I'm told "oh that happens, that is normal", but honestly that seems much more visually distracting than a little bit of pooling around a post. But it isn't noticeable unless you view the playfield at an extreme angle with the right reflection, and no normal human is going to not enjoy playing the game because of it, so I can live with it.

And my $0.02 related to the specific question that was asked that started this thread, sure, significant pooling would make me ask for a couple of hundred bucks off the price of a used game, and chipping would have to get me a huge discount ($500 or more) ... BUT if a brand new playfield was thrown into the deal, I would rather have a machine with a few cosmetic issues AND a spare playfield than a perfect machine no extra playfield. Ultimately, these are pinball machines and they WILL develop wear and cosmetic issues if played, it is just a matter of time.

#17 7 months ago

Ask POTC prices if chipping diminishes value.

#18 7 months ago
Quoted from zaphX:

Ask POTC prices if chipping diminishes value.

To be fair here, the question should be if you had 2 available POTC's and one had chipping/pooling and one did not and everything else was the same, would one be worth more than the other?

damage usually effects value!

#19 7 months ago
Quoted from Khabbi:

To be fair here, the question should be if you had 2 available POTC's and one had chipping/pooling and one did not and everything else was the same, would one be worth more than the other?

damage usually effects value!

Seriously, why even go inspect a used game in person if condition doesn't matter? Why show photos? Why are restorers like Kruzman and HEP overbooked? So those restored games should be worth the same as a routed beater with dings all over the cabinet and chunks of playfield art missing? Personally, I have yet to sell a game where the potential buyer doesn't look at the playfield. We live in a world where people pay thousands of dollars for a few additional color LEDs on a playfield, or an inert plastic topper on the backbox, but defects and chipping on the same machine don't matter? Yeah, right. Nobody is going to look at two of the same machine for sale at the same price and take the one with a trashed playfield over the one with a nice playfield.

1 month later
#20 6 months ago
Quoted from Betelgeuse:

Seriously, why even go inspect a used game in person if condition doesn't matter? Why show photos? Why are restorers like Kruzman and HEP overbooked? So those restored games should be worth the same as a routed beater with dings all over the cabinet and chunks of playfield art missing? Personally, I have yet to sell a game where the potential buyer doesn't look at the playfield. We live in a world where people pay thousands of dollars for a few additional color LEDs on a playfield, or an inert plastic topper on the backbox, but defects and chipping on the same machine don't matter? Yeah, right. Nobody is going to look at two of the same machine for sale at the same price and take the one with a trashed playfield over the one with a nice playfield.

well said

#21 6 months ago

Thanks. I probably should have posted it in one of the more active pf threads!

#22 6 months ago
Quoted from Pinball-Wiz:

I got a trade offer today for a Wonka, but the game has pooling on several posts and a few chips near 2 of the posts. Just wondering how to value the game now with this vs one that does not have it?
The damage really is sore on the eyes and I'm not sure I want the game or the trade.. how are you guys valuing games with these issues?
I have seen the GNR thread on this, so it appears to happened to several titles.
Has JJP done anything for the buyers of these games to make up for the problem?
Sorry if this has been covered or beat up, I honestly have not been a part of that discussion and have a deal I'm trying to decide on.

I personally wouldn’t buy anything JJP. They have some seriously flaws pins. If I didn’t already have my deposit down I’d back out. If artwork falling off the playfield is your thing, we’ll JJP has you covered there

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