(Topic ID: 172708)

"Save the SF2" Restoration.

By Onevox

7 years ago


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  • 126 posts
  • 21 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by binary11
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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There are 126 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
#51 7 years ago

More voltage tests ... this time at the connectors at the transformer panel.

A12P3
P1 64 instead of 95
P9 30 instead of 95 return
P4 18 instead of 12.6
P12 7.8 instead of 12.6
P10 67 instead of 58
15 on pins where there should be 12
22 on pins where there should be 20

A12P2
P2 4.4 instead of 6
P4 70 instead of 48

A12P1
58.6 on pins that should be 48
4.5 on pins that should be 6
11 on pins that should be 16
24 on pin that should 50
28 on pin that should be 50 return

I'm wondering if this is a bad ground issue (i.e. fix the grounds at the transformer per pinrepair.com). I forgot to mention that when I first inspected the inside of the cab, I found the green ground disconnected at the power box, and loose at the transformer.

Or bad resistors?

I checked the Bridges again. They are all giving me the 4.3-4.6 readings.

My DMD showed a little life when I reconnected the connectors: about half the columns lit up.

#52 7 years ago

Just posting a pic of my battery, which when I see it blown up on my computer screen looks worse than I thought. Need to test it properly. Note Pin2 on U6 looks like it may have a cold joint, or corrosion.

Unknown (resized).jpegUnknown (resized).jpeg

#53 7 years ago

Replace it. A dead or bad battery can sometimes prevent booting.

You can use a coin cell battery holder--it should fit in the existing holes. Just be sure of the polarity when you install it.

#54 7 years ago

Replaced battery with cr2032 holder and battery and now attract mode and tourney play without sound and DMD. U6 appears good. Super excited to see it coming to life.

Going with ground fix next.

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#55 7 years ago

Nice! It's always satisfying to make some progress

#56 7 years ago

Did the grounding mod mentioned on Pinwiki and pinrepair ... sort of. I haven't soldered it yet. I wanted to see if it would have an impact on the game. (Not that I can see.) Also, I used the basic yellow eye connectors from a HF kit I had, not the smaller eye ones recommended by John R. I'm looking for the small eye versions, but wanted to get the ground more stable before I start working on boards.

Also, I attached the connectors to the L brackets that held the grounding board. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but not sure if it's an issue?

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#57 7 years ago
Quoted from Onevox:

Also, I attached the connectors to the L brackets that held the grounding board. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but not sure if it's an issue?

Interesting idea.

However, you should be able to screw the terminal connectors directly to the metal without needing those brackets.

Quoted from Onevox:

I'm looking for the small eye versions, but wanted to get the ground more stable before I start working on boards.

The common eye sizes are usually #6, #8, or #10. It should match the size of the screw that you are using.

-1
#58 7 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Send it to NEO to restore and then he can send it my way.

look at you with the jokes.

there is a reason so many people have bought these for under $600. To get $700 out of it, it's going to have to look damn nice. Personally, i'd got the VP route as it's much more enjoyable that way than the actual game. One less SF2 will not be missed. Actually if they all disappeared, I don't think many tears would be shed.

Remember with gottliebs. If the coin door open/close switch is open or not working. The game will not boot up. It's a kill switch for the entire game. As soon as that coin door opens, everything goes dead as if you unplugged the game.

Also, never ever unplug or plug in the ribbon cable on a DMD on a gottlieb. It will blow the game specific chip instantly. They don't like that.

#59 7 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

look at you with the jokes.
there is a reason so many people have bought these for under $600. To get $700 out of it, it's going to have to look damn nice. Personally, i'd got the VP route as it's much more enjoyable that way than the actual game. One less SF2 will not be missed. Actually if they all disappeared, I don't think many tears would be shed.
Remember with gottliebs. If the coin door open/close switch is open or not working. The game will not boot up. It's a kill switch for the entire game. As soon as that coin door opens, everything goes dead as if you unplugged the game.
Also, never ever unplug or plug in the ribbon cable on a DMD on a gottlieb. It will blow the game specific chip instantly. They don't like that.

Its only a joke until you make it happen.

P.S. find me a $700 SFII and i'll drive over.

#60 7 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Its only a joke until you make it happen.
P.S. find me a $700 SFII and i'll drive over.

This. Hell, I'll take a $900 SF2.

#61 7 years ago

Stop it, Scotty. You're getting me all confused. I wish you were closer, only like 13 hours away.

11
#62 7 years ago

Sound on.
DMD on.
Game on.

What an amazing day. I went to the Winston Salem auction and came home with one DMD that was part of a larger box, but the winning bidder was nice enough to sell me one from a stack of DMDs in there to use as a tester. Read on. Thank you whomever you are.

1. I re-did the grounding mod, by screwing the new connectors directly to the transformer chassis.
2. Installed new ribbon cable between sound boards. Sound works. Also replaced driver/CPU ribbon. Not sure if it had an effect, but don't care at this point.
3. Pulled and reseated U8G. It had no affect on the DMD so I connected the DMD I picked up today. And. It. Worked. The last line is a little dim, but a pittance compared to staring at a dead DMD.

So here's the fun part...
I played it a little to test. Then invited my 17 year old to try it. We both actually like the game. Maybe it'll wear off. But my son quickly said "you're not getting rid of this, it's awesome."

Now the playfield take down and cleaning begins. And a couple of small fixes.

Force, thanks for staying with me on this. I'm ready for this to move to "restorations documented."

IMG_5774 (1) (resized).PNGIMG_5774 (1) (resized).PNG

#63 7 years ago

Excellent progress!

#64 7 years ago

And another System 3 guy is born lol

#65 7 years ago

Car crusher action was dead. A little manual linkage movement, DMM tests, and reseated the opto connections (just because I'm reseating everything I can) on the bottom of the lower PF. And it started working. Not a learning experience, but I'll take it. Two hits and a winner. Probably will do TNT's smaller ball suggestion.

#66 7 years ago

The teardown has begun. Looks like a cleaning will be much overdue for the lowest levels in back. It's a shame the Mylar doesn't go all the way back, found some PF wear. Not sure if I'll touch up.

Does anyone know where you can get replacement foam pads for ramps (see pic) and metal VUK deflectors?

Also, any danger in powering up once the playfield is cleared? Lots of lights to verify before rebuilding the PF. (Back left strobe didn't work with bulb replacement, so I need to check that out)

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#67 7 years ago

I'm really glad you decided to clean this game up and get it working again. I feel like the people who complain about the gameplay of SFII are the same kind of people who complain about a hamburger because it's not a filet mignon. Sure, a burger isn't a filet, but hell, nothing cures those pangs better than a hamburger sometimes. Or maybe I'm just a cheap date who likes cheap games. I don't know. Also, for $250 for a damn cool DMD title with an awesome theme can't be beat. I'd take it any day.

#68 7 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

I feel like the people who complain about the gameplay of SFII are the same kind of people who complain about a hamburger because it's not a filet mignon

If the DMD animations were a little better and the rules were a bit deeper, it would likely be one of the top system 3 titles (up there with stargate and super mario). The layout is pretty decent. I only bought it for a short bit for nostalgia of playing it at a chuck e cheese back in the day.

#69 7 years ago

My wife loves SF2 and we have a matching arcade machine so its safe to say its never going any where.

I cant help but dream of what this pin could be.

Dream list:
Change the car to a lexus from the era and put a smaller ball in there to make it harder to complete

Change animations to have more detail

Add a video mode where you kick barrels that are falling. Left and right, they get quicker and quicker, you lose if you miss one.

Plug the blanka eject hole and make it an opto instead. Skill shot becomes harder, and the game is less stop and go.

I know there was more...Im forgetting some.

Looking good so far. Cant wait to see the end result.

#70 7 years ago

Great to see you got the game working. It's giving me urges to start on one of my projects.

#71 7 years ago

May I gently suggest adding some LEDs to the GI while you have it apart? I can't remember for sure, but I don't think you can get access to those bulbs from underneath. Either way it looks sharp with them in there. Great work and glad to see it not turned into a VP.

Here is a video of one I shopped out 5 years ago, the LEDs I used were not, non ghosting (they were pretty rare at that point)..

#72 7 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Its only a joke until you make it happen.
P.S. find me a $700 SFII and i'll drive over.

You can have mine for 800, not a joke.

#73 7 years ago
Quoted from eabundy:

May I gently suggest adding some LEDs to the GI while you have it apart? I can't remember for sure, but I don't think you can get access to those bulbs from underneath. Either way it looks sharp with them in there. Great work and glad to see it not turned into a VP.
Here is a video of one I shopped out 5 years ago, the LEDs I used were not, non ghosting (they were pretty rare at that point)..
» YouTube video

wow, I guess you can polish a turd. Looks good.

#74 7 years ago

I was thinking about LEDs for this, but didn't want to put more money into than necessary. But you make a great point about accessibility when you consider lamp life.

This leads to a question I've had for a while: what type of LED is recommended. I'd love to see a side by side photo demo of what different styles of LED bulbs look like under a playfield plastic, under a dome, behind backglass, etc. Warm white, cool white.

#75 7 years ago
Quoted from Onevox:

I was thinking about LEDs for this, but didn't want to put more money into than necessary. But you make a great point about accessibility when you consider lamp life.
This leads to a question I've had for a while: what type of LED is recommended. I'd love to see a side by side photo demo of what different styles of LED bulbs look like under a playfield plastic, under a dome, behind backglass, etc. Warm white, cool white.

Doing the GI won't break the bank. Without seeing the manual, or knowing exactly how many bulbs are in the GI, I would estimate needing about 25 cool white bulbs, and 6 blue.

I use this type for the FAR back areas that are completely covered so they don't blind you. Get 10 Whites, and maybe 4 Blues for the back area of your game. You will have to experiment a little but you will be pleased with the dramatic difference. If you can only afford to do some LEDs just start at the rear, because that is the hardest area to reach later. Also, for good measure replace the flasher bulbs with new ones back there even if they are good, so you know everything is new and works.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2561

I like bulbs like these for areas that may be uncovered and could hurt your eyes. They are still very bright and work great.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=3211

Last thing I would suggest. Buy Titan Rubber rings especially for the back area of your game. They last longer, don't yellow and harden, and stay clean longer.
https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=52

I really wish you were closer as I'd stop over and give you some pointers, although I have to say you've done amazing so far.

#76 7 years ago

+1 for PinballLife LED's. I use the super brights exclusively (except for frosted domes where they're directly visible when playing) and am completely satisfied. You can order translucent rubber (same-ish material as Titan) from PinballLife also to save on shipping.

#77 7 years ago

for GI's the most natural looking ones are the ones Comet used to sell the 2SMB's. for color. If it's over something blue or green, you want cool white. If it's red yellow or orange, you want warm light. So if a majority of them are blue plastics. Use the cool.

#78 7 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

for GI's the most natural looking ones are the ones Comet used to sell the 2SMB's. for color. If it's over something blue or green, you want cool white. If it's red yellow or orange, you want warm light. So if a majority of them are blue plastics. Use the cool.

Agree with you on all points. Just trying to save him a couple nickles figuring he would be buying parts from pinballlife at the same time. SF2 GI can be done with mostly white and some blue.

#79 7 years ago

i disagree with using colored bulbs for GI's. Should never ever be done. There is only one situation where you can use colored GI's in a spot, but it's extremely rare.

#80 7 years ago

I'm definitely going with the GI LEDs, cool white. I've enjoyed reading the advice and opinions. Thanks. I thought about using blue bulbs on the light bar under the back box, on either side of the center flasher. They're barely visible anyway. Thought it would be nice color glow.

I used some incandescent 44 blues in the top lanes on my Flash (the covers were white; I've seen blue covers on other Flashes) and really liked the effect, and dropped reds in the pop bumpers. But didn't like the look under the playfield plastics.

I've already bought the rubber set from PBR and will just go with those.

EDIT: Got caught up in Black Friday and placed LEDs order with Comet. Stay tuned ...

#81 7 years ago

Also remember you can widen the gap of the end of stroke switch on the car flipper...so the high power is cut off almost immediately...making it hit the ball lighter!

#82 7 years ago

Thanks, Todd. May try that first. When I'm done, you will see some familiar upgrades and lighting ideas.

Starting to think about the cabinet. Is it crazy to handle the cabinet much like a playfield? Frisket around the logo, redo the blue with a spray gun, frisket other areas of the artwork, etc.

Also, does an airbrush give even results for larger areas? I've never had one and wondering if it'd work on a cab, or do I need a larger coverage spray from an air pistol grip style air gun.

Lastly, cab paint recommendations? acrylic enamel, oil, etc. I've read a lot but threads go back several years. Current thinking?

#83 7 years ago
Quoted from Onevox:

Thanks, Todd. May try that first. When I'm done, you will see some familiar upgrades and lighting ideas.
Starting to think about the cabinet. Is it crazy to handle the cabinet much like a playfield? Frisket around the logo, redo the blue with a spray gun, frisket other areas of the artwork, etc.
Also, does an airbrush give even results for larger areas? I've never had one and wondering if it'd work on a cab, or do I need a larger coverage spray from an air pistol grip style air gun.
Lastly, cab paint recommendations? acrylic enamel, oil, etc. I've read a lot but threads go back several years. Current thinking?

I think you are spot on with the cabinet restore. When done air brushing I would put a couple very light coats of clear over it to seal the work you've done.

#84 7 years ago

Anyone with a SF2: I was cleaning yellow posts and found that two of the posts are the taller 1 3/16" ... and I didn't pay attention to where they came from. There are 4 holding the slingshot plastics on either side. But there are two more that came from somewhere. Can someone tell me where they go?

All my pics are overhead so the height is not clear. Note to self: take side views along with overhead

(Edited from original after studying my pics and baggies of parts...)

#85 7 years ago

Cleaning all the parts and started to question whether these are supposed to be used on SF2. I'm reading where its an EM post. Found one on the layered plastics, where one of three was this and shorter than the others, so the plastic was bent down.

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I dunked the stargate ramps in Evaporust overnight and the blue metal ramps came up nice and silver. Wondering if anyone has tried using gun bluing on parts before. Found a Birchwood Casey sharpie-like pen that blues, then I would coat with clearcoat. Not prepared for redoing all the rivets. Maybe just leave the silver alone?

#86 7 years ago
Quoted from Onevox:

Cleaning all the parts and started to question whether these are supposed to be used on SF2.

Most manufacturers--and Gottlieb especially--recycled a lot of part designs throughout the years.

Did to find any reference photos from other gsmes of the area where you found the post?

#87 7 years ago

Well, I found a pic showing the white posts, shown on the left and right of the stargate ramp, which was good to see.

I've dropped the car crusher PF and found the springs quite stretched. But generally in good shape. The parts cleaning is nearly complete. I've become a big Evaporust fan. I think I'm going to pull the side rails and lockdown bar/mech and give them a bath. Also looking for a match on the cab blue.

Screen Shot 2016-12-03 at 11.36.25 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2016-12-03 at 11.36.25 PM (resized).png

1 week later
#88 7 years ago

the PF rebuild came to halt when I found that several of the flashers didn't work. I did some MOSFET testing and found a bad one at Q22, and oddly, one missing at Q15. The Q22 had a bad solder job, too much solder and lots of yellow flux staining (?). As I desoldered Q22 I found that the traces came up with the solder (I'm not sure if that was me or the previous work.)

So, what now? Is there a fix, and if so, whats the current thinking?

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#89 7 years ago

What tool are you using to desolder?

Normally, when heating the component you want to desolder, heat the leg of the component, rather than the pad. You should only touch a pad very briefly.

Then, if you sucked all the solder out completely, the leg should come out pretty freely. If it doesn't, add some solder, then suck it all out again. Old solder doesn't always flow as well as new solder.

#90 7 years ago

anytime you lose a pad, you're gonna have to jumper it to another spot on the trace where the pad goes to. Pads can very easily pop off on a board that old. Always use the minimum amount of heat using a temperature controlled soldering iron.

#91 7 years ago

I was using a simple spring loaded sucker. So jumpering is the best way to go. It looks like I will only need to jumper one of them if I can solder the other two efficiently. The 2 bad traces on the component side are the 2 good traces on the other side. From what I can tell quickly, I need to jumper the MOSFET source to the adjacent cap C33. I'll need to double check the schematic.

I had my soldering station set to 350C. I'll lower to 320C next go round.

This is some of the older solder work I'm dealing with...

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#92 7 years ago

Based on the schematics and visually, I definitely need to do jumper 1, jumpers 2 and 3 are uncertain until I can get a loupe on them. Will someone be so kind as to compare my sketch (based on the photos) and the schematic, and see if I got the jumpers right? Sketch is based on non-component side but I would put the jumpers on the component side.

Thanks.

Schematic (resized).jpgSchematic (resized).jpg

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#93 7 years ago

I jumpered only J1 on my sketch, then replaced two other FETs and bingo, all flashers are working. Now back to the PF and cab: new flipper bushings, rods and bats; evaporust legs, lockdown and side rails, and rebuild the PF. Funny to think this started as VP cab and now that all the electrical stuff is working, I'm starting to like this SF2.

1 week later
#94 7 years ago

So i finished cleaning the PF and soaking a lot of stuff in Evaporust. I used polishing wheels on my drill with black and white compound to clean up the side rails.

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#95 7 years ago

I spent the day rebuilding the playfield. Learned a lot about how to document the process. Basically, its working. I think I have one smart switch not working. And I'm going to wait for warmer weather to work on the cabinet, but I plan to frisket the logo, fill dents in the blue areas, and repaint all the blue.

I'm not sure I have the LEDs exactly the way I want them. I did some things I saw others do, like blue under the ramps. But I learned a lot about how I like LEDs, and more important, what I don't like. I accidentally ordered clear domes for the PF and meant to order frosted... so I sanded the domes to diffuse the light.

I also did a lot of the upgrades that Todd T. talks about in his entertaining videos: stargates upgraded to correct coils, smaller car crusher ball, and the blue/red LEDs in the lightstrip to accentuate the red ramps.

More pics later. Here's where I'm at ...

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#96 7 years ago

A little of it in action ... the flashers are more intense on the video than real life.

#97 7 years ago

Just played a couple of games, and I'm not done yet. Did the solenoid & relay test - the ramp coils (7&8) and car crush reset (13) aren't working. So more work to do...

#98 7 years ago

Nice job, looks like it's coming along well

#99 7 years ago

You are doing the lords work.

Where did you end up getting the smaller ball from? On my list.

#100 7 years ago

The ramp coils had a blown fuse. Fortunately local true value carries the 1 amp SB I needed. So those are "up" and working. Car crush needs opto work for reset, and need to see about redirecting back center kicker direction so ball doesn't hit a rail and go back into the hole.

I got the ball from PBR. I bought a 7/8" which still wins after two hits. The springs are stretched and don't provide much resistance. So need to replace. May try EOS adjustment first.

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