All the code in the world, and all the flowy "flow", cannot make up for what many folks were looking for when they bought into this very expensive game. Yes, some folks are more concerned with code, modes, and flow .. and they will likely be happy. But other folks really like a visually stunning and mechanical interaction with the ball type of game. Different strokes for different folks.

It sure seems all the emphasis on this game has gone into the rules/modes and player interaction which seems significant over WOZ. Unfortunately, it came at the cost of losing all the inserts/lights, multiple toys, and many other game elements.

In regards to player interaction ... my only concern there is the location of the button on the lockdown bar (as others have noted.) To take your hands off the flipper buttons to hit that seems difficult if done while play is still going on (versus like AC/DC where play stops when the ball locks in the cannon.) If this button on Hobbit is to be used extensively ... it probably should have been located on the side of the cabinet. We'll see.

If you can't read between the lines it sounds like we are looking at an essentially complete game physically (95%+?) But there are many rules, player interaction (using the button on the lockdown bar), and callouts/movement from Smaug that we're yet to see. But if you were counting on the book being replaced with an lcd I would say don't count on it (or Smaug's head doing something more for that matter.) It's certainly possible .. but just don't count it and then you will be pleasantly surprised.

Why are you still acting like you think there is some big "surprise" coming in the form of some toy or other significant playfield element?? I think you are setting yourself (and possibly others) up for some real disappointment if you think that's the case. Maybe a ramp decal or engraving (or other small decoration?), certainly the button on the lockdown bar, but otherwise ... this it physically (and again, there's still a lot going on to appreciate.)

Speaking of decorations ... I think artistic blades would be a very affordable and easy addition at this point (depending on whether the art could get approved in time) that could dress the game up a little more.

Yes ... but used. I'm confident I'll find one in mint condition a year or two from now. I want one but I'll wait.

I'm not offended and I don't mean to come across as overly critical (as I said, there is a LOT to appreciate in this game). But I've been through this EXACT same situation with WOZ. Even when we saw the final game months before shipping began, many (MANY) of us were still speculating on the Google forum where there would be final changes or surprises in the game. Nothing more came. Nobody from JJP looked to downplay our hopes. I see nobody from JJP looking to downplay your hopes right now so I just feel bad and think folks should just be realistic.

There are a remarkable number of "deja vu" things happening right now with Hobbit (from a customer's perspective) that happened with WOZ. It really is surprising to me.

Oh, lol.

Fine (John), I'll shut up now. You can be happy about that.

I think we knew about the crystal ball 6-8 months before game #1 actually shipped? It was not revealed all that late in the game (certainly more than 3 months before game #1 shipped). Even then, the crystal ball was a well-known rumor for MUCH longer then that. If there really was a surprise coming ... they've made it one heck of a secret (unless it really is a 5" lcd that was rumored.) And I'm not sure a 5" lcd will save the day anyway!

Possibly because they haven't finished a few decals (someone noted they mentioned possibly adding ramp decals and/or etchings in the ramps?). There could be a few more lights or pf lighting effects added? I think there will certainly be a few small nice details like this added ... so why take pictures and create marketing material until it is 100%?

If JJP is holding back on a big surprise I think it is a remarkably poor business decision (shocking even) to not at least hint right now that a big playfield surprise is coming (such as an lcd.) What would they have to gain by not stating that now? They have plenty to lose (or are losing according to this poll?) by not stating it if it's true.

Agreed. I think the numbers are far from accurate (although I can honestly say I did not vote because I'm not in on a pre-order.)

Can you imagine what would happen if this many people (or even a fraction) actually asked for refunds this coming week??

I know you're being sarcastic but I'm pretty sure that movie theatre will quickly change their mind when they realize these games are not ready to be shipping soon. Even if they did get the first 86 off the production line ... seriously ... when could they be delivered at the earliest? Middle of January? As someone else noted, the movie will have been out for a month at that point and and already fading at theatres.

He was referring to Jack's comment earlier in this thread about a movie theatre chain sending an RFQ for 86 games.

BUT .. to your point .. NO, it's not "creatively doing business" (by announcing a new edition). It's "deceptively doing business." I've stated it before and I hate to repeat myself but Jack had previously stated (back around the initial announcement of the game and in response to talk about the 75th edition WOZ) that there would be no other special editions of Hobbit. Just the one limited edition and the 75th edition of WOZ was a unique situation given the anniversary of the movie and the product catalog coming out that JJP could get their game advertised in. Well, here we are ... deja vu .. there's suddenly a new edition of Hobbit. Oh well. It is what it is.

I've thought about it a lot and only one thing makes sense. They just don't know themselves. Not 100%. I think they may be working on an alternative (to the book for example) ... but they may not have it working 100% or at a reliability level that they feel comfortable proclaiming it will be in the game 100%. They're going to bust their butts over the next 6 or 7 weeks to fix (or improve) as many things as possible ... but they just can't guarantee much more than what they've shown at expo unfortunately. If they could I think they would say something. They're doing the safe and smart thing (IMO) and focusing on the great things that are there in the game today and the few things they feel confident they can add or will be there when game #1 ships (such as the button on the lockdown bar, maybe some decals or etching on the ramp, etc.)

Like what? I think Smaug himself seems to be biggest disappointment BY FAR. Especially since he was (is) to be the main mechanical toy on the playfield that folks thought would directly interact with the ball. I don't think he'll change. Other things may be added.

I do agree with this. I would absolutely be patient and wait another 6 or 7 weeks to see what develops. You just never know. I don't think replacing the book will turn this into something epic, but with all things considered this can still be a great game (top 50 all time easily). People seem to always feel like the next game coming out should be the new #1 of all time or else they're disappointed.

Getting a refund should not be a problem (although it took a few weeks before I got my check.)

Id be surprised if these polls are overly accurate. I really think people should take a deep breath after this weekend and wait a little longer to see what more might get done.

Dont hold back, tell us how you really feel.

Although those little TM's do wreak of paranoia, lol.