(Topic ID: 82437)

Did I kill my Demolition Man?

By Chaos

10 years ago


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#1 10 years ago

Very sad today. And also willing to admit I am an idiot.
Recently got my first 2 pins, and have fallen in love with them. I always wanted a pin, and when a High Speed finally came along at a good price, I jumped at it and assumed it would be my first and only one. However a Demo Man came along a week later, and at a fair price, and fell in love with it too...so now have 2 pins in my lounge and luckily a girlfriend who loves them as much as I do.

Did a lot of research, and not being an electronics guy, decided I would be very happy to clean, polish and fix things like rubbers etc. But wasn't going to tackle things out of my league like electronics. We have been cleaning and sorting plastics and changing bulbs etc for 2 weeks and loving it. Both machines work fine..no real errors and mainly cosmetic stuff to do.

Demo Man is my fav, and have been sorting it out mainly.Sourced plastics, have new rubbers coming, and even repaired a faulty flipper. (wire came loose)
All was fine. Until....

Thursday night we did some cleaning with a dry cloth in the back box. Know enough not to move any connectors or short anything out. At least I hope not. Was stupid enough to remove the ribbon cables, one at a time. However I am really sure that we put them back the right way. Red stripe to pin 1. The only one without a pin 1 is the thinner one to the DMD, and that seems to have a little triangle showing pin one I assume? Larger triangle on the ribbon. I am fairly sure we got them back the correct way. Have since checked a few times, and still think they are correct.

Anyways, we also put in some led's and polished the playfield a bit. New bulbs in the back board too. So I am not sure exactly what action caused the result. When examining the back box, I pressed every connector I could see...to make sure everything was seated.

Then I turned the game on. And that's when a little part of me died.
As soon as it turned on, all flippers activated upwards, and there was a hum.The DMD came up with scrambled random dots. In about 3 seconds, I turned the machine off..as I could see this was not right, and I was freaking.

Checked the ribbon cables in case I had flipped one around. Pressed all connectors. Then turned it on again, this time for about 5 seconds. The flippers activated (and maybe other solenoids..I was too freaked to note) and then there was a flash, and a fuse blew. I immediately turned the machine off. There were about 4 LED's still glowing after the machine was turned off. They lit for about a minute after the plug was unplugged.

So this is where I sit. I have checked everywhere to see if there is a short, but cannot visually see anything. The fuse that blew was F112 (secondary solenoids?)
If I turn it on for 2 seconds now, the DMD is scrambled, and I suspect in a few seconds that fuse will blow again since the flippers are activated and it just sounds ominous.

I am depressed as hell. Being in South Africa means that there aren't a ton of repair guys or parts. There are one or 2 good guys I think..but don't want to lose the machine for months and be told that i need to replace boards for tons of money. But I also love this game and want it working.

So here's my dilema. I need to know what can a novice check and do before I am forced to hand it over to a pinball technician? I have a digital MM and can do basic soldering.

Because the flippers/solenoids were activating..does this indicate a short on one of them? Cannot see any lamp's that are shorting, but not to say they aren't I guess.

I am scared when switching it on that i am going to blow more than a fuse. If I leave it on past the fuse blowing, can I do further damage to a board? because if I can leave it on longer than a few seconds, I can check which LED's are lit. I think the 5v one was on, along with the others that are supposed to be...but cannot be 100% certain. I don't want to damage anything more.

Can i disconnect ribbon cables without damaging anything...in order to see if I can get it to start? If so, I would start with the one on the fliptronics II board and only connect the ends to the boards, and not the middle connection?
Or what cables can I disconnect?

I will try and check all the fuses, but since the game was playing fine before...I don't think the problem is there. I should have one 7A slow blow to replace the one that blew (F112?)
I have repeatedly checked all connectors in the back board. Nothing seems loose or disconnected. Pressed the chips and anything else I could find..nothing loose. Not that i can see. Nothing appears burned or shorting. But of course I could have missed things. None of the solenoids look stuck or sticking.
What would cause the flippers to activate on startup until the fuse blows? Something to do with flashers? I have no idea.

I would really appreciate any advice or comments. I know I am an idiot...but I don't think I did anything that was really beyond me. Obviously something was though. My main concern is to prevent further damage. Boards cost a fortune, and finding out if only a part of a board is gone is tricky.

I have the manual, but have to look up everything if told to check cap X or bridge Y etc. Please can anyone help me get what was an excellent condition Demolition Man up and running again?

Thanks in advance

Chaos

#4 10 years ago

Thanks guys, somewhere to start. That confirms that I can start the machine with any of the ribbons unplugged without damaging anything?
Will try that. I paid particular attention to the ribbon plugs..I don't think I missed any pins. But will check again.
If anyone has any pics of the ribbon cables and the orientation to the red stripe/plugs..that would be a big help.
Sometimes the pin 1 indicator is vague. But I did take care with that. Going to try and unplug the ribbons when I get home from work.
I assume I can plug in both ends of a ribbon cable and leave the middle 2 unplugged too as part of the test?

Any news on whether I have to power off immediately if i see the fuse is about to blow..or if it blows?
That DMD with random dots..is that a symptom of the problem here, or do you suspect there is damage to the DMD too?

Appreciate the advice for us novices. There are a few fields I consider myself an expert at..but pins are not one of them
Now if you have a broken firearm or need info on a Japanese sword..I can help you. But if it plugs in...I'm running the other way.

Chaos

#7 10 years ago

Thanks rygar, that will be a big help.
Can I start the machine with every one of those disconnected, and is there any particular order that would be best to connect one at a time after that?
With the flippers activating, is it likely that the problem is at top left there on the fliptronics board or the ribbon cable connection there? Or is that not "assumable"?

No word from anyone on whether I must switch off the machine as soon as those flippers start up activated or the fuse is blown, or if I can leave the machine on to check what led's are lit up?
It's hard to note the LED's at the same time I am scrambling for the plug to switch the machine off.

Chaos

#11 10 years ago

Right now checking the fuses and cables. Testing each fuse.
Must be my multimeter, because when set on resistance, most of them jump around...don't settle on zero. Up, down, zero..up, down...zero. But I think they are ok...dead ones stay on O.L right?

One thing I do remember is that with the door open, the flippers didn't power on activated. But the DMD was still scrambled, and as I closed the door, the flippers activated. So the high voltage cutout stops the flippers activating. But that is normal, right..and doesn't get us any closer to a solution? On power-up...my gf seems to think that it wasn't just the flippers that were activated, but flashers were on solid. So a whole bunch of stuff is active on power-up.

Markmon, can you clarify this bit:
Chaos

Quoted from markmon:You can power on with any of the ribbon cables disconnected. First step is isolate the CPU board on the lower left. It has 3 LEDs. When properly booted up, one will be in a flashing state. Remove the ribbon cables from that board and power on. If you get the flashing led, CPU booted. Time to attach the next cable.

Do you mean connect only that cable first, and power on. Then the next one?
Or connect all of them, except that one and power on?

Chaos

#15 10 years ago

You guys are a huge help. I have removed and reseated all of the ribbon cables. Checked all the fuses. 3 of the fuses weren't to spec, they were not slo-blo and a few amps off. So tomorrow I am going to try and get the right fuses, and then I'll try another power on. Not going to try it tonight until the fuses are all ok. Eliminate as much as I can from the equation.
I am still thinking the cables were seated correctly, since I paid special attention to that. But you are all correct that it can happen, and I am really hoping that is what it is.
Also going to check as many lamp leads as i can tonight. Make sure none are shorted.
I noticed one flasher had a slightly dark base (on the part that plugs in, it wasn't blown though)....I moved the leads further apart in case they were shorting.
After that, if it isn't working better, I am lost. But i'm still holding thumbs.
Thank you all for your advise and assistance. I really do appreciate it, and it might help the next guy with a problem too.
Keep any advice coming, and I'll update when I have news.

Chaos

#18 10 years ago

Well...here is the update as promised.
Yesterday, went through as much stuff as I could think of. Reseating plugs and checking bulbs. Took a decent amount of time checking the ribbon cables and examining them for flaws. Plugged them in as carefully as I could.
Decided to switch on with everything connected, and if there is a problem, then go to the "one cable at a time" method.
But the game came on perfectly..all as it was. I nearly fainted with relief.
So if I have to come to a conclusion, I would have to say that in spite of reseating the ribbon cables twice, in all likelyhood there was an error in placement there, just as you guys suspected. If not..then possibly the one flasher was shorting. (Removing and replacing ramps might have made the 2 legs touch?)

In short, all is good. No "murder death kill" of my pin at this stage. I am hugely appreciative of all of your help. For anyone with a similar problem reading this..no matter how much you think you might have connected cables correctly, check again!

Now to tackle the one problem I still have (had from the start, and it's not a huge problem)
At the lower right, the slingshot does not work at all. The 2 switches give no reaction at all when pressed. During the tests, the slingshot activates..so I think the coil is ok. But the 2 switches that activate it do nothing at all. Their gaps look ok, and wires look connected. Any have any suggestions on what to check and where?

Thanks again for the help all. If anyone is ever in South Africa, I owe you a few beers.

Chaos

#20 10 years ago

No..I don't think they register at all.

Chaos

#23 10 years ago

Progress again Chris. I better be careful I don't start getting a bill via email
Getting to grips with a MM.
It was odd....wasn't getting continuity through the diode...are they open somehow? But managed to trace the white/red wire all the way up to the trough connector J1, where it ended as a loose wire.
By looking through the manual, we found out what wires are connected where in that white connector. The white/red came out one side, but didn't go in the other side. We pushed it in securely, and now that kicker is working great. Not sure how those connectors work properly...the wires don't seem removable and can't get to them to solder. Does the wire originally get pressed in and clamped somehow? Anyways, we have it pressed in there, but would like to secure it better.
Thanks again. Great feeling when you can do things yourself without calling in a technician. This game is great and underrated imho. Can't wait for the new rubbers and some led's to arrive.

Chaos

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