Thats true but his question was, "is BBB really that great of a game"...

And you've just listed the number one reason why people dislike BBB. People who have never played one or only played it a few times can't justify the price. And with only 191 copies made, thats the majority of the pinball community. So therefore money has influenced opinions on game play and it must be a bad or mediocre machine based on price.
(I've also found that people have opinions based on polls or other peoples opinions but thats another Pinside thread)

Look, BBB is a challenging, fun playing, beautiful machine with great music and voice calls. It has satisfying shots with one of the most difficult extra balls to achieve ever and multiball is a blast to play. And it's adult theme makes this machine unique and desirable to many. (I'll stop there)

Is BBB the greatest game ever? Will you see God after playing? Of course not. But expectations are hard to live up to in that price stratosphere. And personally, I don't see the value in how much Medieval Madness or some other machines sell for.

Then there are the critics that say its value is because of its rarity. LOL, well no duh! Most any collectible that's rare is. But I don't see Sega Godzilla selling for big bucks.

And then others will claim people only own it as a show piece, (as if the owners never really play it). Its absolutely true that bragging rights come with the game... So jealousy from non owners seems to play a role in opinions. (While they brag about a new car or house)

Look, I got in early on BBB so I'm lucky and proud to have it. It's a great addition and the flagship machine in my collection. I play it just as much as my other machines and all of my friends appreciate having it available to them. But would I pay $25,000 or more for it? NO FREAKING WAY! - But other people can and do as they justify the price and desirability.

The psychology of opinions especially on Pinside is intriguing and often head shaking.

Next up, the boo birds that claim my opinion is biased and therefore invalid because I own one.

Hey, my rant felt pretty good... But as often happens with my morning coffee I forgot something that validates much of what I posted.

A year or so ago, Planetary Pinball announced its purchase of Illinois Pinball from bankruptcy. Pinside exploded into joyous fist pumping with speculation and false rumors that BBB would now be remade. Former critic's were now rejoicing.

I'm paraphrasing but here are the two main chants I read:

1. Finally I will be able to own at BBB!!!!
2. Ha ha, rich people are going to lose money.

Love it or hate it for whatever reason, BBB is and always will be a desirable game to own.

Sorry for the slight topic diversion everyone, its a pet peeve of mine.

********

Flynnibus: Great point.

In a succession of new owners? I'd say long past your lifetime and mine.

And with this influx of new money and rebirth of pinball, I believe any rare machine will remain collectable. But especially a modern machine with ""stories and mystique"".

Isnt that true of most any game in a collection and typical of many people?
I've had mine since 2007. I have to admit, I'm just now beginning to contemplate with selling mine also.

Re-read what I posted about perceived value in my first post. This isnt about you, Larry.

- See you at Expo my friend.

I completely agree BlackKnight.

That's not what Gene told me or what I saw. Its true he did not have playfields (that I knew of) or cabinets. But he had a significant majority of the mechanisms and parts along with the boards. He went into detail with me about remaking the Tube Dancer and a few other miscellaneous items but that was about it.

I was there several times and he had a dedicated warehouse completely filled with Capcom parts. Much of it game specific to the six titles Capcom made. He even had enough parts to assemble a King Pin to about 75-80% (it was unplayable and that's my guess)

Little know fact. His purchase from B/W included enough Capcom parts to assemble about 3 or 4 complete Breakshot machines and he re-themed them as Pool Player.

Anyway, that's what I remember.

illinois.jpg
allentown2002-geneandpoolplayer.jpg

You may be right about only two working, I'm not certain.

I was at the Cunningham's about a year or less before Planetary Pinball came in and sold off Gene's collection in lots. Two of the Pool Player machines were still there sitting side by side. And the way Gene horded stuff I doubt he sold them in the interim. Most likely one of the Planetary lot buyers got them in a group purchase.

Agreed, Pool Player is not the next big thing. LOL.

Its nice to talk with someone that was actually there. Gene's Barnum and Bailey persona certainly has had a effect on Rumor Control.

Al Warner is a well respected member of the pinball community and a Big Bang Bar historian. His reputation is impeachable. Your reputation on the other hand is deception, uncontrollable anger and the failed MM - CC - Crock Hunter projects.

To answer your question directly I can only guess.

Gene Cunningham was a well know difficult man to do business with. Back when you were attempting to remake MM, Gene owned a portion of the B/W license and you the other portion. A conflict arose between the two of you. Possibly you couldn't make certain parts without his permission....

You with your famous temper may have done it out of spite. Or revenge.

Anyway, my guess.

Thumbs up for your comment and allow me to add this: On the day of delivery, some people met at Illinois Pinball and sold their BBB right there on the loading dock, instantly doubling their money. Since that time BBB's have done nothing but go up in value and it's become the benchmark for greed and envy in all of pinball. "Greed, for lack of a better word"

Example: A friend of mine is in on a limited boutique machine and just weeks ago at Expo he told me: "Its going to be the next Big Bang Bar". - It won't be the next BBB but he's entitled to his opinion and I will have bragging rights in two years after winning our wager.

But it shows how influential BBB has become and still is. And with its history, will always be that benchmark.

Agreed, 100%. And thats why I immediately made my wager with him that his boutique machine will never equal a BBB in value or desirability. Unlikely any machine will. All of the elements of that time in history can never be duplicated. Not in this life time anyway.

Love it or hate it, mark my words. For generations to come, people will invoke Big Bang Bar in conversation and use it as the measuring stick to compare all others.

I agree Timeshock would be a game changer and I am following Silver Castle's project with great interest. But BBB was born long after Black Friday when B/W had closed their doors. Stern was limping along as the only manufacturer and the death of pinball was openly discussed.

A small, limited run of the machine many people believed would have saved Capcom was exciting back then. Also, (on topic) pre-order for the first time was used and it was a dangerous, exciting adventure even for the spectators. Do you remember how vibrant the internet was with arguments and speculation over BBB? - Those things and other elements add to the BBB mystique and cannot be duplicated.

Timeshock is under way during a time of rebirth for pinball and I would put it more in a possible Twilight Zone category at this point. It is unique onto itself and I agree Timeshock could set its own benchmark depending on how things play out.

Regarding the thread topic: Could be the recent failures of pre-order with Jpop and Predator will hinder or prevent Timeshock. And that would be tragic in my view.

Personal note to Black Knight: I admire the knowledge and history you bring to this thread and others on Pinside. And your opinions. You remind me of RGP during the golden years and I value most every word you post.

I'd rather not say openly but its not a secret project if thats what anyone is wondering. And I don't want to hinder even slightly their success by a flippant comment I made on Pinside. Nor do I want this thread to go sideways because of it.
- I'll send you a private message, Hilton. Anyone else is welcome to email me for the answer if curiosity gets the better of them.

The terms of our wager is unimportant. Its all about bragging rights among friends.