(Topic ID: 282679)

Diamond Lady Help!

By Pinball-DOOD

3 years ago


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There are 127 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 3 years ago

Hey all! I have a new Swemmer MPU and Ni- Numf driver board in my 1988 Diamond Lady and a sound board that was bullet-proofed by Keith at K’s Arcade. The game works for the most part but upon boot up, the sound board will play strange sounds until I manually reset the sounds board by hitting switch 2. I also will occasionally run through the menu and midway through, the game with freeze. This freeze when going though the menu is characterized by the free game knocker going off and the back right flasher going off at the same time, along with random sounds! Ground mounds appear to be done. I have also included a picture of the game freezing during the test menu. The display gets all garbled. Was hoping someone could point me in the right direction! Thanks!

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#2 3 years ago

Are you using the original MPU/Driver interconnect or an IDE cable? Not sure if these boards support the IDE replacement anymore. Sounds like it could be a bad connection between the MPU and driver.

#3 3 years ago

Curious. What does "bullet proofing" the sound board amount to?
I'd remove the fluorescent tube while debugging. The EMI from those things can cause issues at boot, at the very least.
The signals to the sound board come from the driver board. It is important that all of the edge connectors are clean, without oxidation or corrosion.

--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from 20eyes:

Are you using the original MPU/Driver interconnect or an IDE cable? Not sure if these boards support the IDE replacement anymore. Sounds like it could be a bad connection between the MPU and driver.

Yes! I have an IDE cable in now to replace the edge connector

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:Curious. What does "bullet proofing" the sound board amount to?
I'd remove the fluorescent tube while debugging. The EMI from those things can cause issues at boot, at the very least.
The signals to the sound board come from the driver board. It is important that all of the edge connectors are clean, without oxidation or corrosion.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

I was told that the board had no issues when I sent it in because it booted up and worked fine in his game. Ah, yes. I have never replaced any of the edge connectors except for the a1J2 on the MPU. Which connectors should I replace? Thanks!

#6 3 years ago

One edge of the driver board has only two connectors. Both of them should be repinned.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

One edge of the driver board has only two connectors. Both of them should be repinned.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Great! I’ll start there. I have never done edge connectors, but I’m sure I can find a video

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

One edge of the driver board has only two connectors. Both of them should be repinned.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Okay! So where can I get a pin extractor and pins for the connector? Thanks!

#9 3 years ago

great plains electronics should have everything except pins for the double sided connectors (which aren't available iirc)

#10 3 years ago

Contacts:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=77

Extraction tool:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=140
11-03-0016 (Molex)

W-HT-1884 (Waldom) looks just like the Molex but does not fit properly into these edge connectors.
As you can tell by the price, Molex is real proud of this tool. Some people (me) are too cheap to pay for the Molex tool and make our own. I have a slightly modified jeweler's screwdriver that costs much less and works just as well.

#11 3 years ago

For using the extraction tool with the Molex edge connectors - see figure 2 here:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Datasheets/connectors/Molex/HTA2174.pdf

If you have the IDC type plugs on your machine now - good luck.
Seriously, you can still use the connector shells but they're tougher to get the old contacts out.
Being a Gottlieb 80B - you probably have the IDC type plugs.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Contacts:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=77
Extraction tool:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=140
11-03-0016 (Molex)
W-HT-1884 (Waldom) looks just like the Molex but does not fit properly into these edge connectors.
As you can tell by the price, Molex is real proud of this tool. Some people (me) are too cheap to pay for the Molex tool and make our own. I have a slightly modified jeweler's screwdriver that costs much less and works just as well.

Thank you so much! So could you provide the part number I should order for both the contacts and pin extractor? Sorry, there appears to be a few different ones

#13 3 years ago

Just out of curiosity, why would it be harder with IDC connectors? Like pulling the pin out would be harder?

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

Just out of curiosity, why would it be harder with IDC connectors? Like pulling the pin out would be harder?

They're not really designed to be removed, but it's not too bad. Need to push the locking tab on the pin in hard enough for it to stay down, then try to pull the wire out (which may take some finesse since there's tabs to hold it). Often the pin will come out with the wire, sometimes you need to use a pick or needle nose to pull it out after.

#15 3 years ago

You know what, I’ll just need the pins. I’m gonna use a jewelers screwdriver

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

They're not really designed to be removed, but it's not too bad. Need to push the locking tab on the pin in hard enough for it to stay down, then try to pull the wire out (which may take some finesse since there's tabs to hold it). Often the pin will come out with the wire, sometimes you need to use a pick or needle nose to pull it out after.

Thanks!
Sounds good!

#17 3 years ago

So which one should I order? Thanks!

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#18 3 years ago

08-52-0072 works well for vast majority of fixes. 08-52-0134 is used when you have real small wires into the connector (can't think of any that small on a Gottlieb).

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

08-52-0072 works well for vast majority of fixes. 08-52-0134 is used when you have real small wires into the connector (can't think of any that small on a Gottlieb).

Great! Thanks! I will repin and get back to you all! Could solve all my issues

1 week later
#20 3 years ago

Okay, so I am repinning and one of the connectors appears to be damaged (J6 on the driver). Where could I get this 4 pin edge connector?

#21 3 years ago
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#22 3 years ago

I might as well replace others on the driver, too! They are original and look pretty brittle

#23 3 years ago

Those aren't easy to find these days. I'd reuse as many as you can.
Hard to tell from the pic, but that one seems usable still.

That one is still in stock, fortunately.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=09-01-6041

Check around on Ed's site for others you might need.
Ed is the only supplier that I am aware of.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Those aren't easy to find these days. I'd reuse as many as you can.
Hard to tell from the pic, but that one seems usable still.
That one is still in stock, fortunately.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=09-01-6041
Check around on Ed's site for others you might need.
Ed is the only supplier that I am aware of.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Perfect! Thanks. I will order that one and look around. Which tool should I use to extract pins? Could you point me to one?

#25 3 years ago

Will this suffice? Thanks!

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#26 3 years ago

Yes. But it isn’t really needed for the type of connector pictured. I use a small screwdriver to smash the pin from the back, through the small rectangular hole where the pin tang snaps in to hold the pin. The pin can be easily pulled out after this.

To repin the black connector used to connect MPU and driver board, you do need that tool or something like it.


Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Yes. But it isn’t really needed for the type of connector pictured. I use a small screwdriver to smash the pin from the back, through the small rectangular hole where the pin tang snaps in to hold the pin. The pin can be easily pulled out after this.
To repin the black connector used to connect MPU and driver board, you do need that tool or something like it.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

Ah, gotcha. Could you maybe provide a link to where I could get a small enough screwdriver? By smashing the pin through the back, would that mean inserting the screwdriver from the side where the wire comes in or the side without the wire (like in the picture)?

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from Pinball-DOOD:

Ah, gotcha. Could you maybe provide a link to where I could get a small enough screwdriver? By smashing the pin through the back, would that mean inserting the screwdriver from the side where the wire comes in or the side without the wire (like in the picture)?

It doesn't need to be very small, most standard ones will work. It doesn't go in from the side, there's a little window on the front of the connector for each pin, where you can see the metal pin has a small tab holding it in against the edge of the window.

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

It doesn't need to be very small, most standard ones will work. It doesn't go in from the side, there's a little window on the front of the connector for each pin, where you can see the metal pin has a small tab holding it in against the edge of the window.

Thanks!

1 week later
#30 3 years ago

UPDATE: Just repinned the connectors and still no fix on the sound board not booting properly. Where should I repin next?! Thanks!

#31 3 years ago

It’s so strange, the game works perfect aside from the sound board requiring SW2 to be pushed for a reset.

#32 3 years ago

Have you checked to see that the sound board is being reset by the MPU?

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com/ - The new place for pinball repair info

#33 3 years ago

all the sound control lines sound 1,2,4,8,16 and 32 if used must be a 5v high for the reset to work. I would check all the lines for 5v if one is low the card the reset line will not reset the card

#34 3 years ago

How would I go about checking for this voltage? Black lead on ground and red lead on the lines? Also, where are the lines by the way? Sorry to be trouble! Thanks

#35 3 years ago

exactly black on ground red on lead on the line.....I don't have your particular machine but all system 80B s use the same architecture the MA766 and the 886 use the same type commands. they use pull up resistors on the sound card and negative triggers to control the music and sounds ...most machines use lines labeled sound 1,sound 2,sound 4 ,sound 8 and sound 16 to create 31 possible triggers. During the game there is also a sequence that resets the board ......look on your schematics for these lines and they should all read 5 volts the triggers are so fast that you can only see them with an O-scope and you wont pick them up with a meter other then sound 16 which is controlled by the driver board under certain conditions so during the game it will be high or low but at the start it should be high. The same goes for sound 32 but it is not used in most games

#36 3 years ago

if you haven't done the ground mods use the 5v ground on the sound card

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from the9gman:

exactly black on ground red on lead on the line.....I don't have your particular machine but all system 80B s use the same architecture the MA766 and the 886 use the same type commands. they use pull up resistors on the sound card and negative triggers to control the music and sounds ...most machines use lines labeled sound 1,sound 2,sound 4 ,sound 8 and sound 16 to create 31 possible triggers. During the game there is also a sequence that resets the board ......look on your schematics for these lines and they should all read 5 volts the triggers are so fast that you can only see them with an O-scope and you wont pick them up with a meter other then sound 16 which is controlled by the driver board under certain conditions so during the game it will be high or low but at the start it should be high. The same goes for sound 32 but it is not used in most games

Hmm, gotcha. Now the “lines” we are talking about are wires right? Haha I just want to make sure. And these wires would be connected to the sound board?

#38 3 years ago

yes sound 1 thru 8 comes from the mpu and usually sound 16 from the driver board

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from the9gman:

yes sound 1 thru 8 comes from the mpu and usually sound 16 from the driver board

Gotcha! Thanks a ton. So should I measure for the 5 volt while in a game?

#40 3 years ago

So I guess at this point, we are suspecting that one of the lines isn’t giving 5 volts?

#41 3 years ago

right if one of the lines is shorted to ground the board will not reset at the beginning of the game only when you reset the card manually like you spoke of earlier....you can turn on the game and hit the start button and then do you checks before you shoot the ball

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from the9gman:

right if one of the lines is shorted to ground the board will not reset at the beginning of the game only when you reset the card manually like you spoke of earlier....you can turn on the game and hit the start button and then do you checks before you shoot the ball

Makes sense! Thanks for walking me through this! So I can measure for voltage without launching the ball? Like I don’t have to “activate” sounds? I can just let the music play and measure each line?

#43 3 years ago

exactly

#44 3 years ago

Thanks so much! I will do this and get back to you

#45 3 years ago

I don’t have the schematics handy but I found that this line is not supplying the full 5 volts! Any idea where this leads? MPU? Which connector? Thanks!

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#46 3 years ago

The suspect line is the one my finger is on

#47 3 years ago

You are thinking of this wrong.
Those signals are tied to a pull-up resistor on the sound board.
Unless the MPU pulls that signal to ground, all of those pins should be at 5VDC (or close).
If you remove that connector and measure power at each of those pins, they should read 5V.

The game makes sounds by the MPU pulling 1 or more of those pins low, indicating a particular sound to play or an action to take.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

You are thinking of this wrong.
Those signals are tied to a pull-up resistor on the sound board.
Unless the MPU pulls that signal to ground, all of those pins should be at 5VDC (or close).
If you remove that connector and measure power at each of those pins, they should read 5V.
The game makes sounds by the MPU pulling 1 or more of those pins low, indicating a particular sound to play or an action to take.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Ah, gotcha. So should I measure the pins on the connectors when unplugged from the sound board?

#49 3 years ago

Looks like I am missing a few wires? Not including the key of course.

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#50 3 years ago

I can't see what connector that is in the second pic.
The first one looks normal to me.
While some pins are connected on the sound board PCB, they won't necessarily have a corresponding offboard wire.

With P1 removed, power on.
Each pin on P1, should measure 5VDC due to the onboard pullup resistor.
Black on backbox ground.
Red on each pin one at a time.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact ... for board repairs
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

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