(Topic ID: 203624)

Dialing In Dialed In LE #96


By snaroff

1 year ago



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  • 27 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by snaroff
  • Topic is favorited by 15 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

Wanted to share my experience dialing in my DILE #96. Brief notes before listing the issues I tackled.

- This is my first JJP pin. Can't recall purchasing a machine I enjoy more. Dialed In is a stunning pinball on many levels.
- Despite my enthusiasm, I can't recall having to invest this much effort "dialing in" a *new* pinball machine (which is kind of ironic
- I started collecting pinball machines in 2004 (LOTR and TSPP were my first 2) and have owned a bunch over the past 13 years.
- Thanks to JJP's Pat Lawlor, Ted Estes, and Steve Zamonski for their help!
- I'm running v1.5, 6.5 pitch, leveled.

The problems/solutions/links below are intended to help current/future owners. For folks that don't have a problem popping the hood, tweaking their pinball isn't a big deal. Unfortunately, I know many JJP owners that aren't "hobbyists" and don't have the time/energy/motivation to tackle the problems below. I hope JJP support will review this post with JJP artisans building these gorgeous machines (with the goal of improving future builds). The list below is unique to DILE #96, however it's possible some of these problems have been duplicated on other Dialed In builds.

Problem #1: Flippers felt sluggish. Flipper shafts were bound tightly to the playfield (should be ~1/8” of "play") and the EOS switches weren’t adjusted.

Solution: Adjusted the flippers and EOS switches (http://www.flippers.be/basics/101_adjust_pinball.html). Huge difference.

Problem #2: Significant damage to SIM Card hole (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGlxzuqGVfIFy). DILE #96 didn’t have factory installed protection. While waiting for the protectors to arrive, the damage occurred with only 76 plays on the machine. If your DI has factory installed protectors, you don't have to worry about damaging your playfield.

Solution: I decided to install “Cliffy” protectors (phone scoop and SIM card hole). Contacted JJP support regarding difficulty of removing the post on the right side of the phone scoop (Steel Mini Post, 10-32, 1-7/8", Round Base). JJP support sent me a new/updated post, which is symmetric with the left post (5/16” Hex Sleeve Post, 2-1/4”). Extracted the 10-32 mini-post with a hammer and nail punch. I have no idea how many DI's shipped WITHOUT protection. If your DI is unprotected, DO NOT WAIT TO INSTALL PROTECTION.

Problem #3a: Left Ramp/Wireform ball hangups and lossage (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0d5BydzFUsA0b).

Solution: Moving the ramp 1/4” closer to the wireform. No more air balls, hangups or ball lossage. Ramp shoots perfectly now! Thanks to patl and metallik for suggesting this solution. I guess some TAF's had bad transitions between the ramp & wireform?

Problem #3b: Left Ramp/Wireform switches hang too low. Concerned they might be contributing to air balls & hangups.

Solution: Turns out ball hangups weren’t effected by the low hanging switches, however raising them seemed prudent. Some Pinsiders suggested bending the switch up, but I decided to move the entire switch up by shimming the bottom (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGdFryYG82KLw). These switches are extremely delicate and I was concerned bending the switch could damage it.

Problem #3c: Left Ramp/Wireform switches reversed (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0d5fEtEvtDtAu).

Solution: Swapped the connectors under the PF…trivial change suggested by JWJr.

Problem #4: Missing "Betty Ball Trap Prevent Bracket" (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGhtLJ3Ga4m0B).

Solution: Since fixing Problem #3a, the ball hasn’t fallen off the wireform once. Nevertheless, I will install the bracket when it arrives as a safeguard. Thanks to check_switch_26 for noticing the missing part.

Problem #5: The “catch and release” theatre events result in MANY Straight Down The Middle Drains (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGrhkPxG2TCix).

Solution? After removing the mylar, noticed my magnet was ~1/8” raised above the PF. Lowered it to be flush. Getting the huge hex nut to move was a PITA…I imagine it was tightened with a machine? Unfortunately, leveling the magnet hasn’t changed the behavior.

Still getting many "catch and release" SDTM drains. I’m hoping this will be improved in the next software update. The magnet is in the center of the PF and it’s not surprising that simply “releasing” the ball will result in drains. Assuming all the PF magnet holes are drilled in the same location, you'd think everyone would be experiencing the same behavior (which is ANNOYING). Nevertheless, lowering/leveling the magnet is goodness for shots not being “caught” by the magnet. FWIW, the “catch and toss (backward)” works great.

Good luck to everyone getting their game to work optimally. Again, it's an AWESOME game, worthy of the time and effort!

snaroff

#2 1 year ago

Lots of issues for such a high end machine. Still, nearly everyone loves their DI so it sounds like it’s worth the effort to get the game sorted out. I need to find one to play so I can see what all fuss is about.

#3 1 year ago

Other than the wear items I went through same with my GB in regards to dialing it in.

Very happy with game now but I know I put at least 3 hours of labor in to dialing it in.

Just seems to be the way it is on a lot of new pins. TWDLE needed help also.

Just be happy You still love the game because a lot of people get frustrated and just sell games instead of tweaking them.

And be Happy You're capable of tweaking them. Can't tell You how many times I've tweaked games and fire it up and have a new problem!!!

BTW...Looks like a great game!!!

#4 1 year ago

Re sdtm from theater: I have been watching this more closely and I dont have the issue. But the reason I find is that, and I dont know if its coincidence or what, but most times when the theater magnet holds and releases, the QED guy seems to move toward the middle and blocks the ball from going straight down. Now whether that is intended behavior coded in, if its not, it might not be a bad idea to have this added in the software.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from DngrWillRobinson:

Lots of issues for such a high end machine. Still, nearly everyone loves their DI so it sounds like it’s worth the effort to get the game sorted out. I need to find one to play so I can see what all fuss is about.

Try and find one that's tweaked by a collector I played a DILE on location and the flipper's were "meh". Fortunately, I knew JJP uses Bally/Williams flipper mechanisms that just needed some love. My flippers feel awesome...just like a finely tuned B/W pinball

snaroff

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

Re sdtm from theater: I have been watching this more closely and I dont have the issue. But the reason I find is that, and I dont know if its coincidence or what, but most times when the theater magnet holds and releases, the QED guy seems to move toward the middle and blocks the ball from going straight down. Now whether that is intended behavior coded in, if its not, it might not be a bad idea to have this added in the software.

No doubt the QED guy helps avoid some of the drains (which is goodness). Unfortunately, it still seems to happen a lot...especially in EMP Strike mode.

snaroff

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Wanted to share my experience dialing in my DILE #96. Brief notes before listing the issues I tackled.
- This is my first JJP pin. Can't recall purchasing a machine I enjoy more. Dialed In is a stunning pinball on many levels.
- Despite my enthusiasm, I can't recall having to invest this much effort "dialing in" a *new* pinball machine (which is kind of ironic
- I started collecting pinball machines in 2004 (LOTR and TSPP were my first 2) and have owned a bunch over the past 13 years.
- Thanks to JJP's Pat Lawlor, Ted Estes, and Steve Zamonski for their help!
- I'm running v1.5, 6.5 pitch, leveled.
The problems/solutions/links below are intended to help current/future owners. For folks that don't have a problem popping the hood, tweaking their pinball isn't a big deal. Unfortunately, I know many JJP owners that aren't "hobbyists" and don't have the time/energy/motivation to tackle the problems below. I hope JJP support will review this post with JJP artisans building these gorgeous machines (with the goal of improving future builds). The list below is unique to DILE #96, however it's possible some of these problems have been duplicated on other Dialed In builds.
Problem #1: Flippers felt sluggish. Flipper shafts were bound tightly to the playfield (should be ~1/8” of "play") and the EOS switches weren’t adjusted.
Solution: Adjusted the flippers and EOS switches (http://www.flippers.be/basics/101_adjust_pinball.html). Huge difference.
Problem #2: Significant damage to SIM Card hole (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGlxzuqGVfIFy). DILE #96 didn’t have factory installed protection. While waiting for the protectors to arrive, the damage occurred with only 76 plays on the machine. If your DI has factory installed protectors, you don't have to worry about damaging your playfield.
Solution: I decided to install “Cliffy” protectors (phone scoop and SIM card hole). Contacted JJP support regarding difficulty of removing the post on the right side of the phone scoop (Steel Mini Post, 10-32, 1-7/8", Round Base). JJP support sent me a new/updated post, which is symmetric with the left post (5/16” Hex Sleeve Post, 2-1/4”). Extracted the 10-32 mini-post with a hammer and nail punch. I have no idea how many DI's shipped WITHOUT protection. If your DI is unprotected, DO NOT WAIT TO INSTALL PROTECTION.
Problem #3a: Left Ramp/Wireform ball hangups and lossage (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0d5BydzFUsA0b).
Solution: Moving the ramp 1/4” closer to the wireform. No more air balls, hangups or ball lossage. Ramp shoots perfectly now! Thanks to patl and metallik for suggesting this solution. I guess some TAF's had bad transitions between the ramp & wireform?
Problem #3b: Left Ramp/Wireform switches hang too low. Concerned they might be contributing to air balls & hangups.
Solution: Turns out ball hangups weren’t effected by the low hanging switches, however raising them seemed prudent. Some Pinsiders suggested bending the switch up, but I decided to move the entire switch up by shimming the bottom (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGdFryYG82KLw). These switches are extremely delicate and I was concerned bending the switch could damage it.
Problem #3c: Left Ramp/Wireform switches reversed (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0d5fEtEvtDtAu).
Solution: Swapped the connectors under the PF…trivial change suggested by JWJr.
Problem #4: Missing "Betty Ball Trap Prevent Bracket" (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGhtLJ3Ga4m0B).
Solution: Since fixing Problem #3a, the ball hasn’t fallen off the wireform once. Nevertheless, I will install the bracket when it arrives as a safeguard. Thanks to check_switch_26 for noticing the missing part.
Problem #5: The “catch and release” theatre events result in MANY Straight Down The Middle Drains (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0dGrhkPxG2TCix).
Solution? After removing the mylar, noticed my magnet was ~1/8” raised above the PF. Lowered it to be flush. Getting the huge hex nut to move was a PITA…I imagine it was tightened with a machine? Unfortunately, leveling the magnet hasn’t changed the behavior.
Still getting many "catch and release" SDTM drains. I’m hoping this will be improved in the next software update. The magnet is in the center of the PF and it’s not surprising that simply “releasing” the ball will result in drains. Assuming all the PF magnet holes are drilled in the same location, you'd think everyone would be experiencing the same behavior (which is ANNOYING). Nevertheless, lowering/leveling the magnet is goodness for shots not being “caught” by the magnet. FWIW, the “catch and toss (backward)” works great.
Good luck to everyone getting their game to work optimally. Again, it's an AWESOME game, worthy of the time and effort!
snaroff

Sweet write up. Thanks for taking the time and posting.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

QED guy seems to move toward the middle and blocks the ball from going straight down. Now whether that is intended behavior coded in, if its not, it might not be a bad idea to have this added in the software.

This is intended behavior and a fantastic idea by the software guys. Funny - I've had 2 Dialed Ins...my first one the theatre magnet dropped it to the right flipper, the new one it drops it to the left flipper. Never SDTM. But yeah, often QED guy moves just right to project its path elsewhere anyway.

#9 1 year ago

Di is a complicated game, lots of things going on. It's like working on a tz in many respsects. Most issues seem mechanical, which is much easier than electrical. Woz had issues too, so did hobbit.

The only issues I've had with my di is the trap door flap needed to be bent down, my theater magnet setting needed to be adjusted and clear was chipping at the Sim hole prior to adding a cliffy. Zero other issues.

Stern games tend to need less adjustment because there is less to them, but they aren't immune either. Lots of adjustments needed for twd and met, for example, and star wars has notable fork issues.

I actually find as much fun in fixing them as I do playing them and always expect some fiddling with nib (and used) games.

That said, I realize expectations are high given the pricing, but at least tech support is grest, both at stern and jjp!

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

Most issues seem mechanical, which is much easier than electrical.

Not sure I agree. Without Pat's help, I would have never considered moving the left ramp closer to the wireform by ~1/4" (which required drilling a new hole in the ramp). Without slo-motion video, it would have been even harder. Since the ramp hole is fixed (and not adjustable) and the wireform isn't adjustable, it's not an intuitive modification to a new pinball machine. Since I can't imagine my ramp/post is in a one-of-a-kind position, I imagine other examples may have similar problems. That's why I took the time to detail what I did...hope it will help others.

With electrical issues, you simply get a new board and plug it in. I've done this with other new pinballs on several occasions.

snaroff

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Lermods:

I actually find as much fun in fixing them as I do playing them and always expect some fiddling with nib (and used) games.
That said, I realize expectations are high given the pricing, but at least tech support is grest, both at stern and jjp!

I enjoy dialing in pinball machines, but usually the joy is reserved for restorations and older pins

Unfortunately, Dialed In's on location and Dialed In's owned by non-hobbyists won't get the love that our examples get. This is why I hope JJP can step up their QA...it's in their best interest to make sure all Dialed In's play great. My tweaks probably added up to 3-4 days of work. With the exception of my "catch and release" SDTM theatre magnet drains, the pin is playing like a champ.

snaroff

1 week later
#12 1 year ago

Just joined the club today and have a couple of issues. Most, I've been able to address; however, I do have a couple of outstanding questions. First, what is the voodoo magic required to actually lock down the lockdown bar. I've yet to figure out if I need to push the bar down, pull it forward, push it back...

The second, more pressing problem is the upper flipper. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it has a slight lag. It is very inconsistent. Nothing is binding, EOS looks good, don't see any connector issue. Thoughts on this?

On a happier note, my wife and I really like the game. Although we played it on location some, I am very pleased with the speed. Lots of fast magnet action (accompanied by a fair amount of profanity)

#13 1 year ago

For the lock bar, make sure the invisglass is pushed all the way up. Sometime, it gets stuff on the top with the black rubber. You should be able to lock the lockbar.

For upper flipper, check the strength setting. Try increasing the value to 20.

The game is awesome. My entire family love the game. They hated WOZ.

Tim

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from Sidekick74:

For the lock bar, make sure the invisglass is pushed all the way up. Sometime, it gets stuff on the top with the black rubber. You should be able to lock the lockbar.
For upper flipper, check the strength setting. Try increasing the value to 20.
The game is awesome. My entire family love the game. They hated WOZ.
Tim

I can try that, although it doesn't make sense since many times, it simply does not move at all. It is very erratic

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

Just joined the club today and have a couple of issues. Most, I've been able to address; however, I do have a couple of outstanding questions. First, what is the voodoo magic required to actually lock down the lockdown bar. I've yet to figure out if I need to push the bar down, pull it forward, push it back...

I had the same problem, and should have included it my original list. My issue was the lockdown bar was adjusted too tightly. I needed to loosen & align the 2 brass screws in the photo below. If you haven't adjusted a B/W style lockdown before, it takes a little practice and sometimes helps to raise the PF to see where the bar is meeting the lockdown.

IMG_8409 (resized).jpg

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Oldgoat:

The second, more pressing problem is the upper flipper. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it has a slight lag. It is very inconsistent. Nothing is binding, EOS looks good, don't see any connector issue. Thoughts on this?

Hmm. I guess I'd start by looking at the Right Flipper Leaf Switch in the cabinet (which will have a double contact...one for the lower, and one for the upper). Make sure the switches are adjusted properly. If they aren't adjusted properly or damaged in some way, it might explain the intermittent failures.

snaroff

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I had the same problem, and should have included it my original list. My issue was the lockdown bar was adjusted too tightly. I needed to loosen & align the 2 brass screws in the photo below. If you haven't adjusted a B/W style lockdown before, it takes a little practice and sometimes helps to raise the PF to see where the bar is meeting the lockdown.

Thanks, I'll give that a shot

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Hmm. I guess I'd start by looking at the Right Flipper Leaf Switch in the cabinet (which will have a double contact...one for the lower, and one for the upper). Make sure the switches are adjusted properly. If they aren't adjusted properly or damaged in some way, it might explain the intermittent failures.
snaroff

Duhh....damn I hate it when I am so stupid; although you'd think I"d be used to it by now. I was 100% focused on the upper flipper mechanism, EOS, wiring, etc. and didn't even think to look at the button. I've got a nickel that says you are right.

#19 1 year ago

Crazy, you had to tweak so much. Besides adding cliffys and magnet release adjustment mine has been solid and plays great out of the box.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from woody76:

Crazy, you had to tweak so much. Besides adding cliffys and magnet release adjustment mine has been solid and plays great out of the box.

Really only 2 "big" issues...the PF damage after only 76 plays and the weird left ramp->wireform issue. Most of the other stuff is kind of standard (flipper adjustment, lockdown). Ramp switches being reversed was kind of odd (but easy).

JJP addressed the PF damage in later builds by installing protection at the factory. I've asked JJP support to explain the left ramp issue, however haven't heard back. Don't know if they changed the ramp or it's location on the PF in later builds. Definitely mysterious. Highly unlikely my left ramp issue is unique.

snaroff

1 month later
#21 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I've asked JJP support to explain the left ramp issue, however haven't heard back. Don't know if they changed the ramp or it's location on the PF in later builds. Definitely mysterious. Highly unlikely my left ramp issue is unique.
snaroff

Wanted to capture this detail for completeness...

When I was shopping the machine yesterday, I noticed 2 pre-marked screw locations for the left ramp post were exposed/unused. If these holes marked the correct location of the left ramp, it might explain why the ramp location was "off" (resulting in ball hangups and lossage).

snaroff

IMG_8730 (resized).jpg

#22 1 year ago

never had air ball on my left ramp...just switch that does not count every shot and so had to bend the wireform of the switch.
my main issue is the vuk...many many shots are rejected (the cliffy is the good one i think) so i guess i need to be better but this shot becomes considerably tougher.
my other issue is this is really hard to make a pass from a flipper bat to the other...way harder than stern or B/W. am i wrong?

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

never had air ball on my left ramp...just switch that does not count every shot and so had to bend the wireform of the switch.
my main issue is the vuk...many many shots are rejected (the cliffy is the good one i think) so i guess i need to be better but this shot becomes considerably tougher.
my other issue is this is really hard to make a pass from a flipper bat to the other...way harder than stern or B/W. am i wrong?

The JJP flippers feel great once they are dialed in...just like B/W flippers. Passing should work great. Might want to take a video?

I had the latest/greatest Cliffy on the VUK and decided to remove it. The phone scoop is so central to the game and having many shots rejected doesn't work for me. Haven't had any damage...the beveled edges are much more resistant to damage (when compared with the SIM hole). If damage starts to appear, I can always install the latest/greatest protection.

snaroff

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

my other issue is this is really hard to make a pass from a flipper bat to the other...way harder than stern or B/W. am i wrong?

Post passing is fine both ways on mine out of the box...and I have a weak right flipper.

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

The JJP flippers feel great once they are dialed in...just like B/W flippers. Passing should work great. Might want to take a video?
I had the latest/greatest Cliffy on the VUK and decided to remove it. The phone scoop is so central to the game and having many shots rejected doesn't work for me. Haven't had any damage...the beveled edges are much more resistant to damage (when compared with the SIM hole). If damage starts to appear, I can always install the latest/greatest protection.
snaroff

...and do you make this shot easier?

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

...and do you make this shot easier?

Correct. Most shots are easier without protection.

snaroff

#27 1 year ago

Used some well placed blue electrical tape to nail a couple nagging issues:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialed-in-right-orbitramp-ball-rejects#post-4179714

Also reduced the phone VUK coil strength to avoid contact with the wireform. Now the ball is delivered to the right flipper more reliably.

At this point, the game is starting to feel fully DIALED IN I know a lot of folks don't like the title, but after wrestling with all these quirky issues, the name is quite amusing...for sure.

snaroff

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