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(Topic ID: 247961)

Dialed In : with or without holes protectors !?


By RipleYYY

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 18 days ago by RipleYYY
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

(PS : as i will wrote more than just 3 lines, sry for my bad english, its not my native language... and to moderators feel free the move this in another section if needeed)

ok, after having read this topic (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-dialed-in-phone-scoop-protector-from-mantis), i think it was better to create a new one

first of all, the subject is NOT about Cliffys ! tribute to him for what he does (and same to other guys/similar companies, as Mantis), all these products are quality made, and for sure making the job for most of pin owners...

than, this topic is from my personal point of view, i'm a player, not a collector
let's go than

* THE SIM CARD HOLE :

got my DI since end of 2018, than 7 monthes home to play it
never get to SHOWDOWN, the further i was (about SIM cards) is collecting D-I-A-L-E-D and having I-N in blinking state (pin is on factory settings BUT with carrying SIM cards from ball to ball)

from what i can read here & there, and also while playing my pin, i get to the conclusion that the protector is without a doubt a cause of lot of rejected shots
giving a more closely eye to it talk for itself...

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few days ago, i get the opportunity to beta-test the 1.70 coming code, this push me to clear all the audits and give a clean to my pin (which was not dirty but ok), while i was there, today was the day i decided myself to finally remove the protector from the SIM card hole...

having "2 left hands", must admit all was finally quite easy, i broke nothing lol
i've watched the SUPERNOVA video to install the protectors and than do it in reverse... btw, pay attention as its not complete (...) about removing the left ramp : there's another screw at the top, not only the 2 at the flap entrance... if you forget that one at the top and lift the ramp you'll get a nice CRACK on your ramp... not funny :/

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now open to operate...

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PF + clearcoat are of course perfect under the protector, its installed from factory, pin is HUO...

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while putting back the 2 metal posts, i added a washer under, to try to not damage the clearcoat...

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all is back in place...
not sure about the rubbers, as if you just see from the angle of the upper flipper shot, the left one is +/- 2 mm in the way, and still may cause some miss !?
the right one is not a prob
will play/test as it for now, but may be i'll have to put a smaller rubber on the left, or even remove it (but than will for sure wear balls more quickly)

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and than, very early conclusion :

- played 1 game before replacing the glass and the pin in his place, played +/- 2 minutes as it and for balls being near the upper flipper i only did try to shot them in the SIM card hole... got it 4 times quite easilly !!!

- than with pin all set up back, played another game "normally", which means with strategy and aiming for what must be aimed (lol) : scores 2.2M, lighted 4 SIM cards, and collected... 4 SIM cards

OK, i'm statistically still nowhere, but on my own, i know already i will enjoy DI much better from now

* THE PHONE SCOOP

of course, also got rejections from the phone...

than yesterday, i decided to bend the metal plate over it
i just say nothing to my son, and than he plays some games
he direcltly noticed and told me that the scoop was easier to get !? ... BINGO just what i wanna hear, as yes, seems as an evidence that bending it is a real plus, not only to go in, but also when ball is ejected, trajectory seems more "natural" (for sure this is of course also linked to the power of the coil)

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as you can notice, this protector is way more flat & right on the PF level than the SIM one, i'm still not decided to remove it

btw, with bending, its way much better, but there's still another prob
and watching pics is easy to understand : if a ball is not perfectly right in the middle trajectory, the small metal board will cause it to jump, with a rebound on the plastic post, mostly causing an air ball (which i get often)

than seems logical to me, if i remove it, no more airballs there... actual dilemma
may be some feedback, someone already tried it ?

* CONCLUSION

you to know what to do, if you're a player, or if you're a collector...

btw, cant say how much time DI will stay home (because i have to swap my pins when i wanted to play another one), but from now will check the PF state/wear, linked to the audits

tanx for reading

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

edit : title changed, i wanna talk about PROTECTORS, not about who made them...

#2 1 year ago

Does your game have the official Cliffys protectors? There were issues with games using JJP metal protectors that lifted, JJP later switched to using official Cliffy protectors. Earlier games that didn't have a protector at the SIM card shot were chipping.

I would recommend changing the upper right flipper power to 14 to make the SIM card shot easier to hit with an official Cliffy. Setting doesn't effect making left ramp shot.

#3 1 year ago

Those are the JJP-designed scoop protectors, not Cliffys. Authentic Cliffys are better but still make the shots tough.

#4 1 year ago

can't reply to your ask, i'm 2nd owner, but 99.99% these are from factory...
will check the build date next time i'll move it

or you can told me with the pic ?

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#5 1 year ago

and than, posting in the same time, tanx Kev

#6 1 year ago

and title changed...

#7 1 year ago

Without the sim hole protector, you may get clear cracking on the back post. I had it almost instantly when I got my game. I would put the cliffy on.

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

...Earlier games that didn't have a protector at the SIM card shot were chipping....

Quoted from Lermods:

...I would put the cliffy on.

tanx for the feedback, i'm hearing you of course

but it took so much time to decide myself to remove it, than now i'm on the other side
really feeling OK to play as it and enjoy 100% of the pin, than having to put back a Cliffy's and getting (even few) ball rejections...

#9 1 year ago

I sold my DI but changed to the Mantis protector on the phone scoop beforehand and it was much better.

Maybe some carefully cut Mylar around the SIM hole wouldn’t effect play and help protect against chipping.

#10 1 year ago

yep, may be, but than its still a so-so solution...

i'll stay on the pleasure side, with just these last games played :

SIM available 4 SIM collected 4
SIM available 3 SIM collected 3
SIM available 3 SIM collected 3
SIM available 2 SIM collected 2
SIM available 2 SIM collected 2
SIM available 7 SIM collected 5

without any doubt its day & night compare to before (the JJP protector than)
seems now impossible to put back a protector on that hole ! let's than forget the clearcoat :/

just as a reminder, on my TRON LE, put a MANTIS way later after bought NIB, and on my XMEN LE, there was a CLIFFYS (bought HUO), removed it and let without nothing... for what i remember it was more than nice when sold it (to the master of PINSIDE if you read me Robin, you can comment on this)

#11 1 year ago

I have Cliffys but I haven't put them on.

#12 1 year ago

Why would a protector make it more difficult to hit the hole?
- hole becomes smaller because of metal thickness
- raised metal deflects ball to post for rejection

If you consider the thickness of the metal as a ratio of the width of the hole I can‘t imagine it could be more than 1-2%. This number would be the increased number of rejections. Will we notice this?

If the metal deflects the ball in one direction this should work against you on one side of the hole, but in your favor on the other side - it should balance itself out.

So based on these points I would not think a protector would make much difference.

That being said I recently put Cliffys on my TAF and the chair scoop does somehow seem a tad more difficult. I find myself shooting for the swamp to start modes if the ball is on the left flipper.

Maybe there are other factors to the above I am not considering.

I switched out the JJP protectors for real Cliffy‘s on DI and I think they make it easier. I‘ve also reinstalled the real Cliffys a few times because the front was bending up. If I can slide a piece of paper under them, it‘s time for a reinstall. I have not played without a protector.

#13 1 year ago

well, all i can say, its day & night (indeed for me/us)
as my son came back from work, i did tell him to test the DI without the protector, and he agree with me without any doubt...

now, there's another possibility : may be we're just fool !? lol (and i know we're not)

#14 1 year ago

I just took the rubbers off the surrounding posts. Problem solved.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from branlon8:

Why would a protector make it more difficult to hit the hole?
- hole becomes smaller because of metal thickness
- raised metal deflects ball to post for rejection
If you consider the thickness of the metal as a ratio of the width of the hole I can‘t imagine it could be more than 1-2%. This number would be the increased number of rejections. Will we notice this?
If the metal deflects the ball in one direction this should work against you on one side of the hole, but in your favor on the other side - it should balance itself out.
So based on these points I would not think a protector would make much difference.
That being said I recently put Cliffys on my TAF and the chair scoop does somehow seem a tad more difficult. I find myself shooting for the swamp to start modes if the ball is on the left flipper.
Maybe there are other factors to the above I am not considering.
I switched out the JJP protectors for real Cliffy‘s on DI and I think they make it easier. I‘ve also reinstalled the real Cliffys a few times because the front was bending up. If I can slide a piece of paper under them, it‘s time for a reinstall. I have not played without a protector.

I've only out Cliffys on one game, LoTR and it definitely made my direct Orthanac shot (during War of the Ents) less reliable. That small amount of lip can make a huge difference. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do because I like the protector but it does get super annoying hitting a perfect shot that deflects because of it.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from MEuRaH:

I just took the rubbers off the surrounding posts. Problem solved.

I removed the top rubber and it is much easier. Still have the cliffy on.

#17 1 year ago

You really don't want to remove the protector. I had an early game which shipped without it. They sent me the factory protectors but I ended up installing the Cliffy set. This chipping started happening within a couple of weeks of owning the game.

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#18 1 year ago

They should just design all of these holes with a small rabbet around them to fit a protector flush, and mount it at the factory. It's already being cut by CNC, there's essentially no additional cost to adding a 1mm-ish rabbet to accommodate a set of factory protectors that cost pennies to make.

EDIT: Any issues with the seam between the surface and the protector could be remedied with a small amount of clear infill or a small strip of mylar. But I'm doubtful it would be needed if installed well with tight tolerances.

1 week later
#19 1 year ago

ok, less than 2 weeks gone, and feedback already... let's begin with the end : TheArrrrrcade guy is right !!!

and than :
just gone to a friend having a DI same as mine, told him about this story, and he said : well, get my DI without protector, ask them/got them, but still didnt install the SIM card one (he received the "bad" protectors, old ones, as mine)... +/- 1000 games on his pin
i checked his hole (well the SIM one... ), and grosso modo (in french lol) it was a bit less than TheArrrrrcade pic above

than, back home, did check mine... :/

1. AUDITS

game played : 49
ball played : 198
SIM hole done : 233

2. PICS

in fact yes, it began more than quickly...

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for me, main concern was the ball jumping because of the small board protector in front... let's admit seeing pics that this front place is OK (simply because of the ball speed not touching the wood there)... good point here

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more... why is the PF being damage there !? there's no ball direct impact (it's on the left, if you follow ball trajectory)... logically this should happend when ball is ricochet on the right post

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while i'm here : did you noticed the clearcoat cracked there ? it was already on my old pics... in this case its just (recent) pinball
as those getting clearcoat breaking on their PIRATE !?... 1st, the pression when its bolted, and 2nd when a ball of steel caming with force on it...

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back to topic : on the opposite side, let's admit perfect cental shots did touch the metal plate first, absolutly no damage on the wood... another good point here

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finally, as my protector was "so-so" already, decided to cut/adapt it, to protect what seems to damage, but in the same time wanted to keep the front side open...

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3. CONCLUSION

a ball of steel, at high speed/force, will damage the wood/clearcoat, this was knew before testing of course...

than if you want to remove your protector (because again, its night & day in gameplay, no doubt about that), may be dont wait as me for 2 weeks (oups), but directly tweak something near of what i've just done

tanx for reading, and enjoy your DI

5 months later
#20 9 months ago

Thank you for documenting this!

#21 9 months ago

8 months later
#22 18 days ago

Well, I was about to go naked with the SIM but this is definitely making me think twice!

Thanks for this write up, it is extremely helpful.

Any follow up to your partial protection? (It's only been 268 days since the last post; dragging up the past here! )

#23 18 days ago
Quoted from RonSS:

Well, I was about to go naked with the SIM but this is definitely making me think twice!
Thanks for this write up, it is extremely helpful.
Any follow up to your partial protection? (It's only been 268 days since the last post; dragging up the past here! )

well, DI is gone from time, but than the "partial" protection was doing the job as intended

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