Question for owners. I'm considering buying a LE, but wondered about the following:

1) Does the game have depth?
2) Does it have an achievable wizard mode (unlike LOTR and TSPP)?
3) What is the build quality like?
4) Is it a family friendly game in respect to gameplay?
5) I notice that you can opt for a playfield protector. Is this Cliffy's?

Thanks

Do the games now come with the hole protectors installed?

I don't see Dialed In protectors on Cliffy's site. What does his set include?

Seems people have more faith in the Cliffy scoop protectors versus what JJP is installing?

So installing the Cliffy scoop protector is advised even though JJP puts one in?

Any issues with playfield chipping, ghosting, etc?

Man, you guys are making this tempting!

Are there a lot of multiballs in the game?

How tough is the install for the two scoops?

I'm really tempted here! I have a TOM that I was planning to replace the pf on, but maybe I'll let it go and just put my money into a DI. What to do, what to do!?!?!

Stopped by our local pin store the other day while out with the wifey and talked her into playing a few games with me. They pretty much have everything recent set up, and to my surprise, she turns to me while playing DI and says "I like this one!".

And my wife has as much interest in pins as I have in wallpapering.

Look like it's time to move something out, and move something in

LTG can you speak to whether JJP is doing anything about this on games in production?

Sitting by the front door today waiting for my LE

When I get it, I want to deal with the magnet mylar issue, so would appreciate any advice on how to fix it up so the mylar doesn't bubble up on me.

Excited!!!!!!!!!!!

Just got my game in today, and having issues with the left wireform. Shot a quick video (pardon the crappy lighting) to show how the ball rolls to the bottom and then pops out rather than dropping down the hole.

Has anyone had this problem? Any suggestions?

Feel like the flipper strength any lower wouldn't make ramp shots. I think it's the angle of the wireform. I've tried loosen and moving it slightly, and it has improved, but still does not come down like the right side. I'm at 6.5 degrees.

I'm running the stock code (haven't even looked at what that is yet). It's a bit tough to play with the left ramp always putting the ball in danger, but it definitely looks like it's going to be a great game!

Two more questions for you guys...

1) When the ball rolls down from the theatre, it almost always goes SDTM. Is that how it's supposed to be?

2) I was under the impression that the scoops had metal protector that were only on the perimeter of the hole, and I even ordered Cliffy's to protect the surface, however my game has protectors that seem to cover everything. It was manufactured earlier this month, so maybe this is an updated improvement?

Anyone?

Cool, I'll try that out.

Does anyone know if JJP started putting Cliffy stype protectors in their recent builds? Mine has a full protector, not just the perimeter one they were putting in previously.

And, when my ball drops out of the theater, or doesn't fully make it through, it drops right down the middle. Does this seem right?

Aside from that, the game is fantastic! Definitely n my top 3, and likely higher as I get deeper into it.

Two days in, and I'm loving this game. Best light show I've seen yet!

Couple questions:

1) I put a rubber bumper under the left ramp, and although it now does not skip over the wireform, it does hop over the the inner lane, not the outter lane that the wireform is located on. Any suggestions?

2) Sometimes when I start my game, the mechanics hand is up, other times, it's down. I played one game yesterday where the arm was down, and the balls just got stuck there. Ball search did nothing to help. Any ideas?

3) My game is leveled at 6.5 and 0 degrees across, however when the ball gets held by the theatre magnet, and it releases it, it's straight down the middle with n chance to save. Really kills the flow. What can I do about this?

Thanks!

Is it common that this would need to be changed to fix the ball from going sdtm? Didn't come across anyone else having this issue.

I'll try out the magnet adjustment, and hopefully that will help.

For the diverter, it did it again this evening. Game started up with the arm down, and when the ball when up the left ramp, it just stopped at the diverter. Had to take the glass off to get the ball, and reboot the game to correct the arm.

Does anyone have a solution for this, or should I open a ticket with JJP?

Also, I put a post rubber under the wireform (above the slingshot plastic) to raise it a bit, and again tonight, the balls started hoping the end of the wireworm and going down the drain. Pretty disappointed that they would ship out a game with such an obvious flaw. Anything I can do? I read that people have used a couple of washers, but this rubber is at least the height of 2-3 washers.

Thanks

If this has come loose or fallen off, would it still be going up and down as the game powers on?

And is there anything I can do about the wireform? It has basically made the game unplayable. Balls jump at the end of the ramp right over the ball guide into the hole!

I run it, but "Status Diverter Position" doesn't light up or show anything. It just keeps going up and down as I hold down ENTER.

IMG_20171104_231452 (resized).jpg

Not sure if this will provide anything, but here is a photo:

IMG_20171104_232106 (resized).jpg

So I pulled the pf up, and took a look. Seems the wheel wasn't pressing down on the switch enough to make contact. All I did was move it around with my hand a little, and it started making contact. Played a few games, and seems to be working, but I suspect this problem will reoccur. The part that looks like a leg leveller seem to only be able to adjust the diverter on top, but what adjustments could be made to ensure the switch always gets enough contact to press in that little green button? The rotating wheel doesn't seem to be adjustable, so it would maybe come down to pulling out that switch and attaching something thin on it that would close the gap that there seems to be between the wheel and the switch. Any thoughts on this?

I'm also now getting an error on coil #36, showing that the trap door is "broken".

A question for all owners. I've read more than once on this forum that the game was designed to be played at exactly 6.5 degrees. I've also read that 6.5 degrees should be achieved by having all leg levellers flat.

First off, if I put them all flat, I'm at 6.0 or less. My floor isn't perfectly flat, but it's pretty close, so not sure what that is all about.

And even at 6.5 degrees on the shooter lane bubble, when I put my small digital level at the same height of the playfield that the bubble is at, it reads as 6.3 degrees.

So, what do you guys think from you experience, is the ideal level to have this game played at?

Just a question... Why would you want to cancel a Multiball? Just asking as I'm new to the game and figure it's a strategy of some sort?

Played a couple of games tonight, and noticed that balls are shot out of the phone scoop, they now come noticeably slower than when I first started the game up.

Even had a couple of balls come right out of the scoop and straight down the middle.

Feel like everytime I turn on this game there is a new problem. Not exactly the greatest first impression of JJP.

Any suggestions?

Yup, same deal here. That SIM protector is raised so much that a direct shot almost never goes in. Not sure how they put these things together like this and send them out. Glad I ordered the Cliffy's, and I'll switch them once they arrive.

So, put a list together of things that aren't working on my machine, and what I need to get it done. Cliffy's should be here tomorrow, and will get everything running as it was meant to be.

A little confused about what to do with the mylar on the magnets. Some people suggest cutting around the magnet on the top and others from the bottom of the pf.

I'm assuming the objective is to get the mylar. off the magnet itself and leave the rest that covers the area around it?

I know when I take that mylar off I'm going to be left with all types of residue on the magnet. How do I get the residue off without affecting the rest of the mylar? If I were to use something like Goo Gone, anything that got to the edges around the magnet could be affected.

Any suggestions?

Was writing the 1.50 image to my USB when I got this message to overwrite.

Does this look normal?

IMG_20171108_224824 (resized).jpg

Haha, I know to do that if I want to overwrite the file, just making sure this was normal. If you recall, I had that issue with the corrupted MMR file.

Thank you fine sir!

Contacted JJP a week ago about the many issues I'm having with my game, and haven't received a reply at all from them. If this is how they treat customers, it will absolutely be my last purchase with them.

On a side note, I've had only amazing experiences with CGC

Online. Right out of the box, my diverter wasn't working, B.O.B scoop not closing, wireform does not hold ball and instead hops over into drain, phone scoop ejecting balls super fast one shot, then super slow down the middle the next, two snapped rubbers, the pf is so tight to the cab, that put it back into the the resting position almost takes force that feels like you're going to chipped off the edge of the wood, and of course, those annoying metal protectors that rejects shots more than they protect anything.

I've bought three games NIB, and I've had issues with all unfortunately. I think I have shitty luck with pins. But CGC was so quick to provide support, that I got things up and running quickly. Pretty disappointed with all the issues I have to now work through to get this game running after paying as much as I did!

Support reach out to me after my second email to them. I fully agree that all of these issues are fixable, and I definitely will get them done. But am I the only one that thinks it's ridiculous to get a game NIB and have all the minor issues out of the box?

The B.O.B issue should have been addressed before JJP ever shipped these out. And broken rubbers just makes me feel like they didn't give a shit.

It's a pain in the ass for me, as I had to slide the game in the part of my basement where the ceilings are low, and in order to life the pf, I have to move a lot of things around.

Not the end of the world. Got the Cliffy's now, so once I find some free time, I'll knock all these issues out and finally get to enjoy the game. It's definitely a fun game!

One question about the B.O.B door. What sort of oil/grease should I use? And in the video a few pages back, the guy talks about bending back a metal tab. Is that necessary, or just put oil on it?

Thanks all

Full set includes shooter lane and lane switch protectors. Go for the whole set. You won't regret it!

Just a quick update. I did get an email from support at JJP and Jack himself. They've been very helpful.

LTG Steve mentioned that you might have put together a Quantum Theatre uninstall guide? Trying to figure out how to get access to the mylar, so I can cut around the magnet to prevent future bubbling.

Also, just something I was wondering about when I got the game delivered, but totally forgot about since. I received 3 leg levellers that were standard size (as you get on all games) and one that was much longer? Is there a reason that JJP send out one super long leg leveller, or was this a botch up?

Isn't there a wizard mode for starting all 11 disasters?

Whoa! How'd you pull that off? Did you cut from underneath the pf? I'm about to do mine soon, so I'm curious to know.

I'm guessing there is a slight gap that you can get the blade into between the pf and magnet? Did you have to adjust the magnet after to make it flush with the pf? And did you have residue to remove?

Same story here. Granted I have a load of plays on my MMR. But the "lock" hole and drain hole on my AFMR were chipping so badly that I had to stop playing until the Cliffys arrived.

I'm new to the hobby, but if they put a couple more coats on, would it not improve this?

Finally got a chance to pull my machine out last night and put some work into it. Got the following done:

- Adjusted diverter switch, so game always starts with mechanics arm up as intended.
- Sprayed some lube on trap door mech so now it opens/closes.
- Cut the mylar off magnets (they were already starting to bubble after less than 100 games).
- Replaced JJP phone/SIM protectors with Cliffys (WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!).
- Installed shooter lane Cliffy.

With all of these things done, I'm finally able to play and enjoy the game, and after installing 1.50, WOW! Game is packed with some serious fun! The light shows are insane! Playing with the lights dimmed was pretty awesome!

Now, just have to wait for JJP to send me my replacement ramp (balls still flying off the end of the wireform) and like many others in this thread, my theatre magnet releases balls SDTM.

Does anyone happen to know what this issue may be? Everything looks fine from what I can tell.

IMG_20171210_000227 (resized).jpg

I bent the switches back a bit, and now when I boot up my game, I get the notification to press "enter" for error report, but when I do, it just shows a blank page on my screen. No longer shows the switch error, but for some reasons, it's telling me there is an error? Anyone know what that might be?

I'm also still having major issues with the theatre catching and releasing balls SDTM, and the phone scoop sometimes ejecting balls on a slow and weird angle which often go right between the flippers. The theatre is just infuriating though. There is no possibly way to put together a good game, as you're bound to lose at least 1-2 ball a game to this.

Not sure what I can do at this point. Do most of you guys have your game set at 6.5? And what part of the playfield are you gauging 6.5 at?

Thanks for all the help guys

I'll try that out later today.

Another problem started up. The diverter arm is now not lowering all the way down, so the ball gets stuck on the ramp when arm is down.

I banged my knee up playing hockey last night, so not sure I'll be able to get under the machine for a few days, as I have to pull the machine out from a bulkhead to raise the pf

What do you guys have you game set at? 6.5? 7? 7.5? Curious to hear...

Measured where on the pf? Using digital level?

Haha again... Where do you guys generally take your measurement? In line with where bubble is, or top of slings?

The pf generally decreases in slope the higher you go.

This never made sense to me. Apparently PL said that legs should be flat to the floor. But how does that make any sense considering every floor is different, and likely none are totally flat. In order to get to 6.5 degrees, my game must be flat in the front, and about 5 full rotations on each of the rears.

I also think this idea of 6.5 degrees being "right" is a bit off. Most people use a torpedo level that takes a measurement from the center of the level, which tends to land above the machine's bubble level. Others measure at the top of the slings or the middle of the pf. But what is the "true" 6.5? I'd argue it should be at the same height on the PF that the bubble is mounted to. As an example, measuring 6.5 digitally where the bubble is, would mean that above the slings it's closer to 6.8.

This is not an exact science, and the variations between machines makes it an impossible task to try treat it as one. I guess in the end you just have to set up the game so you enjoy how it plays.

Unless PL is personally coming to your house to level your game, I wouldn't put much stock into his recommendation to twist all those levellers in.

Just my long-winded thoughts

And the problem is no one ever told Pat that floors are generally not even. And that not everyone has the same floor

Hahahaha. That's pretty good. You should run that idea by Jack!

But maybe you're not getting the point. If you have a sloped floor (which I do) and you try putting the levellers down, you almost have a flat pf. At that point it's not pinball, it's chess.

I wonder if PL came up with that idea, or those awesome protectors first?

Has anyone had a problem with the phone scoop ejecting balls at very different speeds? For the most part, it will shoot out strongly to the right flipper, but occasionally it will come out noticeably slower and just go SDTM with absolutely no chance to save it.

Was having my best game ever last night and had this happen. Makes it hard to get deep into the game when you run the risk of losing a ball anytime that scoop goes off.

I tried bending the scoop hood down bit. Noticed the balls were ejecting faster and stronger, but after a few games it went back to the current problem.

Anyone have this happen?

If anyone is having issue with balls flying off the end of the left wireform, I think I have found a fix:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ball-bounces-out-of-the-ramp-in-dialed-in#post-4134445

I also get a lot of side drains coming from the slings. Usually bounces off the left sling and directly into the right drain.

I get at least one of these every game I play. Is this normal?

I just shook my head when reading some of the replies. I need a middle finger emotion.

But I do appreciate you actually trying to hear me out on this. I wasn't for a second thinking that drains from the slings were abnormal. But compared to any game I own or have played, it seems to happen much more frequently.

And that was all I was asking. Maybe JJP set the sling strength to high at the factory like CGC did with their flippers on AFMr.

It was simply a question...

Dude, you ever think you might be taking this pinball shit too seriously? I don't know either of you, but I know one of you was trying to be helpful, and the other was pretty much just being a condescending prick.

Just step back, take a breath, and think about how fortunate you are to even be in a hobby like this when there are people who won't be able to put dinner on the table tonight.

Life is good... Smile

And... On a more positive note. I just wanted to quickly share my experience with JJP support. Initially I wasn't getting replies because their ticket system was getting flagged as spam.

Once we sorted that out, it has been nothing but a great experience.Jack personally wrote me, and I've been working with Stephen to get everything I need.

Their emails we're very personal and genuine. Feels like a smaller company that actually cares about customers.

Even though my game has been a bit of a pain in the ass, knowing how willing JJP seems to want to get everything right for me, gives me confidence and patience that this will end up alright.

I know they often browse this thread, so if you're seeing this... Thanks again!

Curious to know from others where the ball usually gets redirected to from the drone magnet. Lately, it seems to be spitting it directly into the left drain not giving you an chance at saving it. I really don't recall it being this brutal.

Also, I played around with the Lawlor idea of turning in all levellers to get the game to a perfect 6.5. Even on the bubble, I end up under the first line, and with a digital inclinometer at the same level as the bubble, it's showing 6.0 degrees. And of course, it feels super floaty.

If this game was designed specifically to play at 6.5 degrees as many have echoed here, then where is that measurement taken? Should it be in line with where the bubble is? That seems like it would be sensible.

There seems to be a multitude of answers to this. Some people take an average. Some just measure anywhere and whatever it reads is what they go by. But does it not make sense that there should be a spot on the pf (parallel to the bubble) that would give you the most accurate reading?

Thoughts?

Still goes back to the original question. Where is 6.5 measured on the pf?

If we go by the second line on the bubble, that is actually 6.2 degrees on my pf at the same height using a digital inclinometer.

All levellers flat, in an area of my basement that is relatively flat, put my game at 5.9-6.0 degrees.

So between slings the reading should be 6.5? Which would be the third bubble line on my game.

There's a lot of stuff I don't trust. I guess I'll add the bubble to my list!

Congrats!

Is that your GC of 4.7 Mil?

If so, and you just got the game, then I am convinced I suck balls at pinball! hahaha

That's insane! You just got the game! Man, I don't think I'll be reaching Showdown ever!

I've been 3-4 calls away from Armageddon, but that's as close as it gets!

The piece that looks like a small leg leveller may have lose.

As LTG mentioned, look at the drawing, and ensure everything looks right. Mine had come lose and was often too high as it rotated.

Interesting! Had no idea you could change settings to keep SIMs lit after draining.

I honestly have no idea how anyone collects 8 cards on default setting.

Am I missing something... I have hit 1 million once or twice, and you guys are blowing it up.

I feel like I'm decent at most games I play, but maybe I'm missing something on DI!

Hahahaha, why the hell would someone downvote this post? All he's saying is that there are varying levels of skill in pinball, so why should we frown upon someone changing settings to increase their enjoyment or understanding. I actually considered turning my MMR up to 5 ball, as others who play my game aren't as experienced with it, and might have more fun having those extra balls to push them deeper into the game.

But to actually take the time to downvote that is pretty lame. Why don't you save your downvotes for people who actually come on here and say offensive or belittling things to others in this community. Anyhow, just my thoughts. Feel free to downvote

Someone had mentioned stacking multiballs is a strategy to get through some of the modes and score. Can someone explain that a bit. Sometimes I get the lock and phone rings for multiball, but I can't get the mode started first.

Would that also include starting a mode, and then looking to start something like Chaos in QC to get through that mode?

And how do you stack multiballs?

Is there a way to restart a game after the first ball is played, like on B/W games where you just hold down start?

Also, I think someone mentioned you could use Chaos in QC to help complete a mode, but not sure how since it automatically starts after completing the 6th mode.

In what JJP documentation does it tell us the recommended leveling for this game. Doesn't seem to be in the online manual, although they does mention a torpedo level as a required set up took.

A bit untrue. All 90s B/W manuals that I've seen recommend 6.5 degrees.

Right now my digital level shows 6.3 degrees between the slings, yet it sits just above the second but bubble line.

Also, I think I've sorted out and dialed in every issue (and I had loads!) but one thing I can't seem to figure out is this damn theatre.

It's not even really the magnet. It's the positioning I think. If I shoot a ball into theater and it doesn't pass all the way through, and roll back out, it's 90% down the middle.

I've had so many games shaping up to be great that get absolutely ruined by this.

Anyone know what I can do?

Oh trust me, I'm nudging like a mofo! But it still is very difficult to save.

Take a look at the instructions on the JJP site for installing their clumsy Lawlor protectors.

It's a pretty good step-by-step guide.

And be careful when tightening the scoop protectors. Too much and you'll bend the edges.

Also make sure you have the new version of the phone scoop protector. The older one sort of impedes the ball eject.

Anyone know when to source the rubber they're using on these games? Like many of you, my game was covered in dust out of the box, and rubbers are already looking rough. Probably going to change them out soon, but not sure what rubbers JJP is using. Doesn't feel like the standard stuff I buy from Pinball Life.

After the updated to 1.5x, did the extra ball handouts change? Before upgrading, I was pretty frequently getting 2 extra balls in a game, and since, I've only ever earned 1.

Extra balls definitely would help get me to Armageddon, but have no idea how they're earned.

Anyone?

What's the best way to rack up combos?

And is it only 2 extras balls awarded?

I noticed that. So one way to get an extra ball is to start three modes. The other way is to do combos. But how do you do that exactly?

That's why they are going to start sending out those hideous plastic shells. I personally would rather just have the correct wireform, but it does not seem that they're going that route.

I've heard a lot of people mention that the proper way to set up DI is to put all of the levellers in. But tonight I was downloading the 1.52 Delta, and stumbled on the Quick Start Guide by accident, and noticed this in the corner.

There were also some people saying that JJP does not suggest how to level it, and that PL had mentioned the ideal setup at some point. I think this pretty much shows that likes most games, 6.5 degrees is ideal, and you can't do that with the legs all in.

Screen Shot 2018-01-09 at 10.24.24 PM (resized).png

Wireform cover... Hoping the replacement ramp will resolve the issue, but if not, I guess I'll have to install this.

IMG_20180111_111206 (resized).jpg

Just got to Armageddon for the first time! What a blast!!!

I'm with you guys on the SIM shot though. Wish there was more skill involved to hit it.

Would changing the rubbers to smaller ones help a bit?

So, when I reached Armageddon last night, I was so caught in the moment that I didn't even really pay attention to what I was supposed to be shooting at. Is there an "end" to this mode, or is it just racking up points?

I ended the game with about 3.2M (which is almost double my previous GC) and only had 3 SIM cards lit. Seems to me, the shot relies a little too much on luck, and makes getting to Showdown a bit tedious. Almost wish that this shot was smoother (like the camera in TZ) so that going for that wizard mode would be more fun.

+1 Mine is not raised like that either. I get zero rejected shots. Only issue for me is the part that protects the wall of the hole. It makes it to narrow, so it effects the ball ejecting.

Already have! Just waiting on him to make me a SOL protector for my AFMr.

Was cleaning and waxing my game last night, when I noticed in the reflection of light that there were loads of ball marks on my pf. I'm fully aware that pfs get scratched up, but from what I've seen on my other games they're more shallow and usually in more of a swirled pattern.

These lines almost look like planking, and when I gently run my finger nail across them, they are deep enough to stop my finger.

I took video of this following the reflection on my portable light.

What do you guys think?

So then this is not normal? This is not what the pf should look like if clean balls were used?

I used the balls that were included with my game.

Regardless, even if I switch balls now, the damage has been done. I've barely played the game, and figured that brand new balls out of the box would have been fine. I'm pretty pissed off!

I don't think Novus it going to clear these out. I will try, but highly doubt it.

I've contacted JJP.

Not at home right now. Will check when I get back.

Took the balls out, and they do have some dings in them, but not much more than some of my other balls in other games.

I tried taking some Novus 2, Novus 1, and wax to it, without really any improvement.

Waiting on JJP.

JJP had me email Mirco directly. He's saying it must be the balls, but they are the ones JJP provided me, and the game was very lightly used. This kind of damage, in this short time is more than disappointing.

Really hoping JJP will step up and right this.

I guess we'll see. I'm not trying to be a hard ass. The game is barely used, and this extent of damage is unacceptable.

These are too deep to rub out.

Here's another look:

New balls in and gave is waxed. But I don't think normal wear is going to sort this. My MMR has over 2500 games now, and has expected wear and also some clear chipping on edges. I'm not so pleased with the chipping, but I've accepted that a fact of modern pinball.

The marks on this DI are far worse, and nothing I've seen before.

Does your pf look like mine?

Can you share a pic of your pf?

Stern is replacing pfs for having a couple of ghosted inserts. I have a friend that just got one.

I don't think it's crazy to think this could (and probably should) be an option.

Yes, except these are NOT the scratches that I have on my other pins, or any other pin I've seen for that matter. They are straight lines, almost like the way planking looks.

My other games are scratched up like crazy, and never once complained about that. Even the chipping on the new CGC games that is annoying as hell, I just swallowed and moved on.

JJP has provided nothing but excellent support so far. I will await their response on this.

It's hard to tell from a video, but your scratches look fainter than what I'm seeing on my pf.

I think the industry is the way it is because many people just suck it up. If greater quality or service was demanded of the companies now making pins, we'd see a change. Especially if we pulled away from giving them our money.

But the fact so many people just "take it", gives them the license to turnout games with a plethora of issues.

Sure, the scratches on DI probably are par for the course to some, but it's unlike anything I've seen on any 90s game that has 20+ years of play on it.

And that's where we are. Just making excuses or rolling over so they can maximize profits and make these game on the cheap.

Cheers!

Quantum City Chaos is 5 ball.

Interesting. I'll have to check mine.

Quick question about the theatre. If you take a shot at the theatre, and it doesn't make it all the way up and around the turn, does the ball roll down for a sdtm drain?

Mine happens 90% of the time.