(Topic ID: 177016)

Dialed In Owners and Fans Club


By goren1818

2 years ago



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#3001 1 year ago

Mantis protector for the phone scoop is ready. Pics tonight, hopefully on sale next week.

#3002 1 year ago

Here is the Mantis phone scoop protector. Designed to protect the sides that get hammered in normal gameplay. This is Mantis's first winged protector design.

Front viewBack view

#3003 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Here is the Mantis phone scoop protector. Designed to protect the sides that get hammered in normal gameplay. This is Mantis's first winged protector design.

Awesome ... i want this even know i have cliffy. It tends to mess with the ball where the mantis wont.

#3004 1 year ago

Anyone ever have an issue where one of the pop bumpers gets triggered randomly? The ball isn't even anywhere near that area of the playfield, but sometimes one of the pop bumpers will fire when I press the flipper button or if the ball hits elsewhere on the machine. Like, I think it maybe has something to do with vibrations. I don't know. Just started happening recently. What can I look for?

#3005 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Here is the Mantis phone scoop protector. Designed to protect the sides that get hammered in normal gameplay. This is Mantis's first winged protector design.

I'm not near my machine, so can't look, but do you know if it uses existing screws or do you have to make new holes?

Thanks for posting this

#3006 1 year ago
Quoted from moonduckie78:

Anyone ever have an issue where one of the pop bumpers gets triggered randomly? The ball isn't even anywhere near that area of the playfield, but sometimes one of the pop bumpers will fire when I press the flipper button or if the ball hits elsewhere on the machine. Like, I think it maybe has something to do with vibrations. I don't know. Just started happening recently. What can I look for?

Pop switch needs ajusted... probably to close.

#3007 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Pop switch needs ajusted... probably to close.

This just a leaf switch under the playfield?

#3008 1 year ago

Anyone have this happen before? On boot up the phone also says "auto config" which I don't recall seeing before.

The first time that it happened I just rebooted the machine and it resolved itself. And now it's had this red screen for the last 3 boot ups.

IMG_20180225_183015 (resized).jpg
MVIMG_20180225_182851 (resized).jpg

#3009 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

I'm not near my machine, so can't look, but do you know if it uses existing screws or do you have to make new holes?

I haven't installed it yet (doing tonight) but it screws in (two screws, but one should do - it fits tight) under the front of the scoop - you'd make the hole yourself. Shouldn't cause any cosmetic concerns - the view is blocked by the scoop so nobody would ever see the hole, even if you removed the protector.

#3010 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Here is the Mantis phone scoop protector. Designed to protect the sides that get hammered in normal gameplay. This is Mantis's first winged protector design.

Shouldn't those wings be tapered at the end? They seem kind of thick, like they wouldn't sit flush with the playfield. Do you have a picture with it installed?

#3011 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Awesome ... i want this even know i have cliffy. It tends to mess with the ball where the mantis wont.

Are you sure? That steel is at least 4x as thick as the Cliffy, on three sides. It will make the hole even smaller than a cliffy. Definitely want to see what it looks like installed...

#3012 1 year ago
Quoted from moonduckie78:

This just a leaf switch under the playfield?

Yes, by the offending pop bumper. The long leaf with the spoon should just be resting on the plastic rod coming down from the pop bumper skirt, not pushing it. The lower leaf blade should be far enough away so vibration doesn't set it off, yet the slightest ball hit does.

A little tweaking and you'll get it dialed in.

LTG : )

-2
#3013 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Are you sure? That steel is at least 4x as thick as the Cliffy, on three sides. It will make the hole even smaller than a cliffy. Definitely want to see what it looks like installed...

I was wondering when Cliffy's marketing guy was going to show up. LMAO.

FYI Mantis solutions are for people who don't want a metal square around the top of the hole (i.e. factory look) and want a solution that never degrades over time. Cliffy's are for people who want an easy install and don't mind replacing the unit after a thousand or so plays. Each serves their purpose. No need to start drama over it man. We all know you love Cliffy's. It's cool.

#3014 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I was wondering when Cliffy's marketing guy was going to show up. LMAO.
FYI Mantis solutions are for people who don't want a metal square around the top of the hole (i.e. factory look) and want a solution that never degrades over time. Cliffy's are for people who want an easy install and don't mind replacing the unit after a thousand or so plays. Each serves their purpose. No need to start drama over it man. We all know you love Cliffy's. It's cool.

I love the best solution for a given situation. I have mantis protectors, too, so it's not always Cliffy, but 4 out of 5 times, I'll pick the Cliffy because it's the best protection for the situation.

The metal is thicker on these mantis ones, and the wings aren't tapered, so I don't see the fit being great, and it will make the hole smaller than with a Cliffy, which isn't ideal. That's why I asked if you had a picture of it installed. Seems like posting a picture would be better for your case than calling names.

#3015 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

Anyone have this happen before? On boot up the phone also says "auto config" which I don't recall seeing before.
The first time that it happened I just rebooted the machine and it resolved itself. And now it's had this red screen for the last 3 boot ups.

Not sure if related, but on top of the screen being washed with red, I also have a left, right, and upper EOS stuck open error.

Is this red screen a sign of the phone fizzing out on me?

Anyone?

#3016 1 year ago

I have the first jjp protectors in my DISE.
Since the mantis protector anouncement I waiting with my decission.

So I hope with the mantis protector the ball will find the way nore often in the phonescoop. Also would like to hear how the mantis is compared to cliffy v2.

#3017 1 year ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Can the sim card opportunity be rolled over to the next ball?

Yes u can - I did. Would be way too hard if it didn't carry over. The SIM Card shot is basically a lucky shot because it's so tough.

#3018 1 year ago

I'd like to see the Mantis installed. Also I'll wait for the SIM one before I order.

#3019 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

I also have a left, right, and upper EOS stuck open error.

Go to Tests - Switches - Dedicated, move flipper bat back and forth and see if it registers on the screen.

If not I'd suspect a broken wire or poor connection from the EOS to I/O board. Look at them too, to see if Pawl closes them.

LTG : )

#3020 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Go to Tests - Switches - Dedicated, move flipper bat back and forth and see if it registers on the screen.
If not I'd suspect a broken wire or poor connection from the EOS to I/O board. Look at them too, to see if Pawl closes them.
LTG : )

What about the washed out red phone display?

#3021 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

What about the washed out red phone display?

Check the cables on both the phone itself and the board it connects to.

#3022 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

What about the washed out red phone display?

No idea.

I'd try reseating VGa cable at phone and video card on motherboard.

LTG : )

#3023 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

No idea.
LTG : )

Ok, who hacked LTGs account? He does not know what those words mean!

I'll check the connections when I get home and update here.

#3024 1 year ago

Going live with a Dialed In stream at 8 Eastern (less than 30 mins from now): http://www.twitch.tv/buffalopinball

#3025 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Yes, by the offending pop bumper. The long leaf with the spoon should just be resting on the plastic rod coming down from the pop bumper skirt, not pushing it. The lower leaf blade should be far enough away so vibration doesn't set it off, yet the slightest ball hit does.
A little tweaking and you'll get it dialed in.
LTG : )

Thank you so much, ltg! That worked perfectly. No more random pop bumper firings!
I love how almost every time something needs an adjustment or a tweak, I learn a little bit more about how these machines work, and I grow a little more confident in my ability to fix it!

#3026 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Here is the Mantis phone scoop protector. Designed to protect the sides that get hammered in normal gameplay. This is Mantis's first winged protector design.

I'm interested in seeing pictures of this installed.
Thanks!

#3027 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

Anyone have this happen before? On boot up the phone also says "auto config" which I don't recall seeing before.
The first time that it happened I just rebooted the machine and it resolved itself. And now it's had this red screen for the last 3 boot ups.

Yes put in a call to JJP after checking connections...mine went pinkish and new display fixed it...

#3028 1 year ago

On a lot of games, the thick protector from JJP is creating rejects on the sim card shot. I switched mine to cliffy over the weekend, and I'm still getting a lot of rejections. The other two things to try are adjusting the angle of the bracket that guides the ball down into the hole, or some drop dead foam on the back of it.

It is a hard shot, but on too many games out there the shot is a lot harder than it should be.

Quoted from kpg:

The SIM Card shot is basically a lucky shot because it's so tough.

#3029 1 year ago
Quoted from jalpert:

On a lot of games, the thick protector from JJP is creating rejects on the sim card shot. I switched mine to cliffy over the weekend, and I'm still getting a lot of rejections. The other two things to try are adjusting the angle of the bracket that guides the ball down into the hole, or some drop dead foam on the back of it.
It is a hard shot, but on too many games out there the shot is a lot harder than it should be.

I'm going to try the same thing I did that fixed my previous TZ's lock shot that used to bounce out.

I'm going to line the rear of the SIM scoop with magnetic tape that should 'suck' the ball in as it hits the rear. I bet that will help a lot. It solved the TZ issue perfectly.

#3030 1 year ago
Quoted from jalpert:

On a lot of games, the thick protector from JJP is creating rejects on the sim card shot. I switched mine to cliffy over the weekend, and I'm still getting a lot of rejections. The other two things to try are adjusting the angle of the bracket that guides the ball down into the hole, or some drop dead foam on the back of it.
It is a hard shot, but on too many games out there the shot is a lot harder than it should be.

I haven’t tried this yet, but wouldn’t adjusting the flipper power have some affect? I played a Dialed In other than mine this weekend. It has the factory protector but the upper flipper power seemed less than mine. It required an almost perfect shot to get it around the side ramp but seemed easier to get the SIM card with less rejects. I am sure there is a happy spot where the side ramp is make-able but not over powered for the SIM hole.

#3031 1 year ago
Quoted from jalpert:

On a lot of games, the thick protector from JJP is creating rejects on the sim card shot. I switched mine to cliffy over the weekend, and I'm still getting a lot of rejections. The other two things to try are adjusting the angle of the bracket that guides the ball down into the hole, or some drop dead foam on the back of it.
It is a hard shot, but on too many games out there the shot is a lot harder than it should be.

Are you sure you don't mean the phone shot? I've had a Cliffy on the SIM shot since it was first available, and rejects are not a problem. HITTING it is another issue, but if I make the shot, it goes in. How strong is your upper flipper?

#3032 1 year ago

Yah, so when JJP has an issue, instead of fix it they tend to try and take the easy way out. Like the right and left orbit on some Dialed Ins. The ramp flaps are too thick, the ball jumps on the flap and the shot rejects. On some games, the ball almost never makes it all the way around the left orbit to the right flipper, and some games have issues with right orbit shots not making it all the way up the ramp. The solution for them was to turn the flipper power down so that didn't happen. I modified my ramp flap so that it doesn't happen. This game is no fun if your flipper power is so low that you can barely make the shot.

Like on a WOZ I bought. All the flippers were set the same except the flippers on the castle play field. The flippers were set really weak, only a small percentage of shots had enough power to hit the hole behind the doors. I turn the flipper power up a bit, and when the ball hits the door it pops open when it shouldn't. I would bet this mis-adjustment was found during "qc" but instead of fixing it correctly they just turned the power down on the flippers.

I guess my point is, address the actual problem like the shot rejecting when it shouldn't and not just lowering the flipper power. This is the worst game probably ever created to lower the flipper power on, it's so fast and flowy. Once the orbits work, this game is elevated dramatically, it's a shame they just don't address the issue.

No, we shouldn't have to turn our flippers down so shots barely work in order to get them to work at all.

Quoted from Insanity199:

It required an almost perfect shot to get it around the side ramp

#3033 1 year ago
Quoted from jalpert:

This is the worst game probably ever created to lower the flipper power on, it's so fast and flowy. Once the orbits work, this game is elevated dramatically, it's a shame they just don't address the issue.
No, we shouldn't have to turn our flippers down so shots barely work in order to get them to work at all.

Yup.

Or you just need to to be playing on the same electrical grid as the factory in which everything works just fine

#3034 1 year ago

The SIM card shot is probably the only flaw on the machine as far as shots go.

The problem is the upper flipper needs to be powerful enough to make that side ramp shot, but if its set at the perfect power level for that ramp - it's too hard of a shot for the SIM scoop so it hits the back and bounces out. I watched this in detail and its literally just hitting the back of the metal scoop return and bouncing out.

If you turn the flipper power down for the SIM card shot to work perfectly, then it is too weak to consistently land the side ramp shot. I'm going to mess with it and see what I can come up with.

#3035 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

No idea.
I'd try reseating VGa cable at phone and video card on motherboard.
LTG : )

VGA looks fine. Nice and snug. Another member mentioned he had the same and the display needed replacing. Any thoughts?

As for the EOS error, see images below. There looks to be a bit of a burnt edge of the left EOS. Also, in test, manually moving the flipper mech does not trigger anything. But you will see the 3 EOS switches are red in test mode.

Any thoughts?

IMG_20180227_144401 (resized).jpg

IMG_20180227_150649 (resized).jpg

MVIMG_20180227_152431 (resized).jpg

IMG_20180227_150828 (resized).jpg

#3036 1 year ago
Quoted from kpg:

The SIM card shot is probably the only flaw on the machine as far as shots go.
The problem is the upper flipper needs to be powerful enough to make that side ramp shot, but if its set at the perfect power level for that ramp - it's too hard of a shot for the SIM scoop so it hits the back and bounces out. I watched this in detail and its literally just hitting the back of the metal scoop return and bouncing out.
If you turn the flipper power down for the SIM card shot to work perfectly, then it is too weak to consistently land the side ramp shot. I'm going to mess with it and see what I can come up with.

Ours works fine, so it can be adjusted to a happy medium where both shots work well.

#3037 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

There looks to be a bit of a burnt edge of the left EOS.

Is the pawl hitting that spot ? If so look for any shorts in that area. Wiring to metal type stuff.

Quoted from Damien:

But you will see the 3 EOS switches are red in test mode.

Red because they don't work. Start checking continuity from EOS to I/O board. A break somewhere common to all three. Black is the common wire, check it first.

LTG : )

#3038 1 year ago
Quoted from jalpert:

Yah, so when JJP has an issue, instead of fix it they tend to try and take the easy way out. Like the right and left orbit on some Dialed Ins. The ramp flaps are too thick, the ball jumps on the flap and the shot rejects. On some games, the ball almost never makes it all the way around the left orbit to the right flipper, and some games have issues with right orbit shots not making it all the way up the ramp. The solution for them was to turn the flipper power down so that didn't happen. I modified my ramp flap so that it doesn't happen. This game is no fun if your flipper power is so low that you can barely make the shot.
...
No, we shouldn't have to turn our flippers down so shots barely work in order to get them to work at all.

Couldn't agree more! Really odd/lazy when JJP representatives advise turning the flipper power down to address various issues. Here is how I solved the right orbit issue (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialed-in-right-orbitramp-ball-rejects). I've worked on a lot of pinball machines over the years and don't recall ever seeing a flap that thick. For many designs, it wouldn't matter than much, however given the complexity of that part of DI, it's just bizarre they didn't use a flap with standard thickness. It would definitely feel better if they simply did a "mea culpa" and shipped new plastic ramps/flaps to interested customers. In any event, the good news is the tape solution works awesome for me and it's trivial to remove if/when new ramps/flaps show up.

snaroff

#3039 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

Is the pawl hitting that spot ? If so look for any shorts in that area. Wiring to metal type stuff.

Red because they don't work. Start checking continuity from EOS to I/O board. A break somewhere common to all three. Black is the common wire, check it first.
LTG : )

I'll check tonight to see if anything is shorting.

As for the continuity, am I just following the black wire to each point it is soldered, to see if there is a reading?

#3040 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

am I just following the black wire to each point it is soldered, to see if there is a reading?

From each point to the I/O board where that black wire goes to.

LTG : )

#3041 1 year ago
Quoted from LTG:

From each point to the I/O board where that black wire goes to.
LTG : )

Is there any connection between the phone and the EOS switches?

Also one thing I noticed about the phone other than color being prominently red, is that each of the character animations is frozen.

The phone also went read before getting the EOS errors.

Thanks.

#3042 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

Is there any connection between the phone and the EOS switches?

No.

LTG : )

#3044 1 year ago

That's why I'm asking. Seems ironic that the phone would go and all three EOS switches at the same time.

#3046 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

That's why I'm asking. Seems ironic that the phone would go and all three EOS switches at the same time.

It was a joke, sorry. There's no connection between the two that matters.

#3047 1 year ago

Alright guys, here are the pics of the new Mantis phone scoop protector installed. I had to do a bit of testing, so apologies for the delay in getting these up. The top of the wings rest flush with the playfield so they will not affect roll-ins.

<rant> Before I installed this I began the first test as my game already was, with no protector. The sound suddenly went out. Became intermittent on/off before dying completely for apparent no reason. Opened the PC, plugged/unplugged audio wires, checked all the connections, nothing I could do. So now I have to deal with that. I'll tell you, from a quality standpoint, this game is crap. I've owned two of these now and I've had more issues with them in 10 months than I've had with the 9 other games I've owned/own combined over 20 years. </rant>

Anyway....

IMG_20180227_210752 (resized).jpg IMG_20180227_210837 (resized).jpg

We (Kerry@Mantis and I) wanted to see how it did rejection-wise against other protectors:

I'm a pretty good player and I can generally make the shot dead on 90% of the time.

I took 50 shots at the scoop, all set up the same way with no protector, the factory "thick" cliffy that came with it, and the Mantis protector.

No Scoop - 42 out of 50
Mantis - 36 out of 50
Factory Cliffy - 24 out of 50

I did request actual Cliffys a long time ago but he never responded so couldn't test them here. When taking the shots, I could pretty much tell when the protectors were blocking it out or if I just missed a hair. Obviously if you hit it dead center, you are going to make it no matter what, but when you're off just a millimeter or so is when the protector comes into play. I felt like the Mantis rarely rejected the ball and when it did it was a shot that might not have been made w/o a protector either. The Factory Cliffy seemed to change the trajectory a tad and the ball had to be more spot on to fall in most of the time. Roll-ins were very rare during normal play with that protector on. The Mantis and no-protector performed the same on roll-ins. Not a scientific test but as a player I don't feel the Mantis noticeably affected typical play.

#3048 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Alright guys, here are the pics of the new Mantis phone scoop protector installed. I had to do a bit of testing, so apologies for the delay in getting these up. The top of the wings rest flush with the playfield so they will not affect roll-ins.
<rant> Before I installed this I began the first test as my game already was, with no protector. The sound suddenly went out. Became intermittent on/off before dying completely for apparent no reason. Opened the PC, plugged/unplugged audio wires, checked all the connections, nothing I could do. So now I have to deal with that. I'll tell you, from a quality standpoint, this game is crap. I've owned two of these now and I've had more issues with them in 10 months than I've had with the 9 other games I've owned/own combined over 20 years. </rant>
Anyway....

We (Kerry@Mantis and I) wanted to see how it did rejection-wise against other protectors:
I'm a pretty good player and I can generally make the shot dead on 90% of the time.
I took 50 shots at the scoop, all set up the same way with no protector, the factory "thick" cliffy that came with it, and the Mantis protector.
No Scoop - 42 out of 50
Mantis - 36 out of 50
Factory Cliffy - 24 out of 50
I did request actual Cliffys a long time ago but he never responded so couldn't test them here. When taking the shots, I could pretty much tell when the protectors were blocking it out or if I just missed a hair. Obviously if you hit it dead center, you are going to make it no matter what, but when you're off just a millimeter or so is when the protector comes into play. I felt like the Mantis rarely rejected the ball and when it did it was a shot that might not have been made w/o a protector either. The Factory Cliffy seemed to change the trajectory a tad and the ball had to be more spot on to fall in most of the time. Roll-ins were very rare during normal play with that protector on. The Mantis and no-protector performed the same on roll-ins. Not a scientific test but as a player I don't feel the Mantis noticeably affected typical play.

With respect - in order to avoid the impression that this is a “cliffy vs mantis” post, I would avoid referring to the factory protectors as
“Cliffys” since they are not

#3049 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

It was a joke, sorry. There's no connection between the two that matters.

Haha nice!

So was doing some reading on checking continuity, and seems some people cut the wire housing at certain points to see if there is an issue?

Can I just test all solder points, and then when I hopefully find the short, I can then isolate that line?

Still learning, so would appreciate any advice.

Thanks

#3050 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

With respect - in order to avoid the impression that this is a “cliffy vs mantis” post, I would avoid referring to the factory protectors as
“Cliffys” since they are not

The older ones aren't, but the Dialed In machines since at least the end of January are confirmed to be shipping with actual Cliffies (which are much thinner than this protector, so a comparison without including a Cliffy is kind of worthless).

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