The concern is that unless the level is exactly parallel to the playfield, the reading will be off. I have some very good levels but it has always frustrated me that there really is no way to determine parallel. Plus the accuracy of levels varies a lot. The longer the level, the easier it is to judge parallel. If you are using an accurate 12" master/starrett/similar level across the top of the slings, you have a much better chance of getting a good reading than the round one in your pic. Since most people don't have a $300-$1000 level, the rolling ball test is often the best way to determine level. (And I haven't even mentioned playfield twist where the top could list slightly to starboard, the bottom slightly to port.) Ain't nothin' easy.

And how many of those pins caught and held the ball in a *very* dangerous spot like DI? A small amount out of level makes a difference.

This is the long winded version of what I said. Even if the level is placed on the top of the slings it's possible the slings are not perfectly even across the field. This is why I said roll a ball see where the ball moves. Longer levels are better but don't fit on pf's. Those round ones are pointless. Phones are not that accurate.

Never said you can't measure, never said lean your game to the left either. I said roll balls down it to check its level.
Drilling a new mounting hole in the ramp then forcing it to line up with the new hole, on the other hand is a hack.

Personally I don't care much for level left & right...it's all ball roll for me.
I understand people like to over analyze every single aspect of everything now; but I can tell pretty damn quick if the game is level without the use of tools.

Let's assume you have a super duper accurate level and you have it between the slings. And is placed dead nuts perfectly perpendicular to the games slope and it registers dead flat level side to side. I'll put money on it that you get a different reading in different places on the field. You'll never find a truly flat field. They ask have warp to a degree. They all sag under the weight of the crap hanging on them. Measure the pitch as high as you can on the field and as low as your can. You'll often get a half it more degree difference. Let the game to tell you when it's right

How sensative are everyone's targets?
My lit big bang target, the mechanic target and Bob targets all need to be hit directly to register.
If the ball is bouncing around slowly ans grazes the target or won't register like a Stern target will. Is this by design?

If you really want your pin to play well you need to adjust all of the leaf switches to play to your liking. These minor adjustments make all of the difference in the world to play quality. You can’t expect these to be tweaked perfectly by the factory. You gotta show your pin some love here - a little patience and work adjusting these goes a long way to perfecting how she plays. This includes all of the standup targets, pop bumpers and flippers.

OMG...still babbling about the left ramp. I'm proud to have implemented a Pat Lawlor conceived hack! I have no doubt my left ramp shoots waaaay smoother than yours (assuming you own a DI, that is). If you don't own one, it's weird that you have such strong opinions. I reserve my strong opinions for stuff I have experience with

I'm convinced my SDTM drains occur when the pin is level. I've hosted pinball events in Cali & Florida with some pretty discriminating players/collectors...I know what I'm doing.

Catch/release for the spiral loop/orbit on TZ "works"...catch/release for a magnet in the center of the PF makes no sense to me. In 1.52, Ted Estes added a setting to "catch and wiggle" (TEST LAB) which adds some pulse/randomness to avoid the slow, painful SDTM drains of the original catch/release. On my example, it's working great. Games have been much more fun! Managed to achieve Chaos in Quantum City earlier

I also discovered that -60 tosses the ball reliably to my right flipper 10-of-10 times (via fiddling with the "Theatre Test Magnet" parameter).

If the center drains can be solved with software (rather than arcane/precise leveling), then it should be changed. Ted's "catch and toss" rocks...so cool. No reason the forward ball movement can't be made more reliable and fun. Simply releasing the ball when the QED guy isn't blocking it is asking for trouble...

Hard to know how many folks this effects, but I can tell you I've received a handful of PM's from folks that are having the same difficulty.

snaroff

My targets were all adjusted pretty well...the wrench target in the pops is one exception. It works, but really needs to be hit directly/hard. On the todo list.

Flippers needed serious tuning...EOS switches and flipper shafts needed loosening. Huge difference...

snaroff

Agreed there. It isn't the easiest shot and when you finally hit it and it doesn't register it's a bit of a bummer.

I plan on taking your advice and working on my flippers as well...seem way more random on this than other games.

You sound like my wife

Ok. Question and I'm sure it's all over the place but I will ask anyway. What is the very best settings for:

Both lower flippers
Upper right flipper
Phone scoop kickout
Theatre strength

I'm just trying to get dialed in.

I’m sure that the “best” setting varies from machine to machine. That’s why JJP made these adjustments possible. Personally I find that even after adjusting the EOS switches and flipper/PF gaps, my lower flippers need to be at max possible strength to play well. Otherwise many good shots tend to be a bit weak. I noticed that the flippers on JJP pins are considerably different than those of other manufacturers, and take getting used to. Not better or worse, just different. I didn’t need to adjust the upper flipper or phone scoop strength at all. And the most important thing IMHO for the theatre magnet is to make sure first of all that it is level with the playfield. After that each machine differs and needs to be tweaked. The tweaking will depend on your degree of slope, and if the mylar is installed and intact (should be installed - that’s the way Pat designed it).
But just like any pin - play with the settings and the slope and the leaf switches and the slight bends to metal pieces where needed until your particular pin plays to your liking. What settings work for my pin in my Gameroom may not necessarily work for yours.
It took me a month or so to get my LE “dialed In”.

Stock settings are fine for me....and my pin is at 7.0 and flippers are plenty strong...

Incorrect. JJP flipper mechs are identical to B/W flipper mechs. When adjusted properly, they should feel like B/W flippers. I haven't fiddled with the software flipper strength setting...they are using the factory default.

Your flippers aren't dialed in properly or something else doesn't add up. My flipper strength is awesome...

snaroff

Mechs are identical but performance is different owing to they way they are duty cycled (if you will). Hence the adjustable strengths.

If the flipper mechs are adjusted properly/identically, hopefully the performance is identical (on the default setting). If folks are adjusting the flipper strength settings to compensate for poorly Dialed In flipper mechs, that would be a pity.

snaroff

T hanks for the tip. I’ll play with them some more.
Although I must say my Twilight Zone flippers seemed much more powerful than my Hobbit or Dialed In flippers.

So. Adjusting a switch is easy... How do I adjust the flippers? They kinda feel fine but maybe I am missing out on something.

I seem to be getting a crazy amount of air balls now. I can bend targets forward a little. But it's mainly happening on the left post next to the phone scoop. I've noticed in the jjp cliffy instructions that post is a different type. Mine is the solid type with a rubber all the way down.
The one in the picture is a nornal post with a small circular rubber up top.

Did jjp swap it out this part to a new one?

I thought I heard someone say they sent out a new post, or would send one out, with the new scoop protector?

Yes I am doing a full 1.50 install and am on a Mac. I went through that instructions, and everything seemed to go well. Put the stick in the game and i started as usual, went to usb update in the menu and the game rest but was still 1.13. Went back to usb update in the menu again and it said "no update directory found! please ensure DL_UPDATE directory is located in the usb root" Everything from the original file went onto the stick through unetbootin, and I checked the info and it did say FAT. I have a new stick that LTG recommend coming soon (thanks again for the help) so will try the process with that in a day or too. I know JJP recommends 8gb+ stick and when I went to the info of mine it said the capacity was just 7.6gb but I don't know if that would matter.

You're not following the FULL INSTALL instructions correctly. If you had made the image using ubootnetin on the USB stick the game would not have booted, it would have booted to Linux instead and updated the game to 1.50. At this point, don't even worry about 1.52. Your main goal is to successfully do a full install with the 1.50 image and ubootnetin.

The only possible thing I can think of that may be causing this if you're doing the rest right is if the USB cable is not plugged into the computer all the way. Might want to check the connections in the head. If that's good, you're just not following instructions correctly for the full install.

Here's what a Dialed In full-install process should look like (it's distant but should let you know what the screen looks like):

Yeah I'm not worried about 1.52 yet. I did what the instructions said and used unetbootin to put the image on the stick, it took a while and said it was completed.
I will check the connection in the head once I find what I'm looking for the usb to be connected in the head. There is barley any slack on the usb in the game I hope it doesn't need to be moved. I went through all the connections a little while ago while having trouble with my theater and phone display and thought everything was reseated but who knows.

You need to loosen the nut that secures the flipper shaft. If the flipper bat/shaft has no "play" (i.e. the bat is tightened so close to the PF that it can't move), chances are your flippers aren't operating at full strength (see http://www.flippers.be/basics/101_flipper_gauge.html, from http://www.flippers.be/basics/101_adjust_pinball.html). I'm sure if you Google around, there is a video about this.

Both of these issues (flipper adjustment and post change) are discussed in this post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialing-in-dialed-in-le-96

snaroff

That's the right post. The left post hasn't changed and does result in air balls on my example as well. The air ball will often find it's way onto the low hanging wireform from the right orbit shot. Unlike SDTM drains, occasional airballs don't bother me much.

snaroff

When doing a full install like 1.50, it will start the upgrade process as soon as you power on the machine vs. a delta upgrade where you start the machine and then proceed via the utilities menu.

I'm using a Mac and tried a million different things with 2 different USB drives and it wouldn't detect the USB to start the upgrade; instead, it would just start up as normal. Finally I broke down and got the PNY 16gb USB drive recommended by LTG and it worked immediately with no problems. It seems to be very finicky about which USB drive it can detect and it seems especially so when using unetbootin on Mac OS.

It's so odd to me that USBs can be so temperamental, but that has been the case forever.

You're the one who bright the ramp hack back up. I responded to you. As for TZ, it's a completely different setup. Let me guess since you don't like the catch and release placement it's another "design flaw". The design is fine. As others have told you roll balls on the pf, that's the best way to level a game. A level will get you close but pfs are not perfect it's a game of making them work. I doubt your ramp works better than mine. Mines never had an issue and isn't hacked to work. The catch and release works on mine too. Have there been some drains yes. But not many and the can be saved usually I'd they are close to the flipper which they tend to be. "Arcane/precise leveling, wtf is that. Your always want a game level. If that's too much for you to do that's not a "design flaw" it's your bring too lazy to dial in your dialed in.

Thank you for posting this. Very strange it would be so picky but that USB drive LTG recommended should be here by the end of the day and I will try again then. Hopefully it'll work just like yours.

If there weren't an issue, what would motivate Ted to experiment with changing "catch and release" behavior?

Precise leveling means what you'd expect. Arcane leveling means raising one side to help move the ball in a particular direction. Use the online dictionary if you still have questions.

Lazy? Just the opposite. You seem to have anger management issues and love emoting and throwing stones. Whatever turns you on, man!

snaroff

Ok so we've determined you have a comprehension problem (that means your don't understand things).
No. One. Has. Told. You. To. Roll. Balls. On. The. PF. To. Make. Sure. It. Is. Leaning. To. One. Side.

Multiple. People. Have. Suggested. Rolling. Balls. To. Make. Sure. It. Is. Level.

PFs. Are. Not. Perfect.

It. Is. Simple.

Extra stops added to try to slow you down so you actually might understand what is being said. But I doubt it will help.

Take your meds, Marvin. Your tude is pathetic. You probably don't even own a Dialed In...you just like harassing me!

snaroff

Can you guys either let it go or take this to PM?

Killing the thread

IDGAF about you personally. You came asking for help. Multiple people have made suggestions, you ignore them saying you know better, then complain of design flaws. Also please show me the online dictionary that has arcane leveling in it. Online references to it point to RPG's and character progression.
You're beyond help. I'll continue to try to help others, but there's no reason with you. I'll just enjoy my smooth shooting ramps and nice magnet releasing game, which I very much have.

I would be happy to become a member. I haven't one yet but it is on order and expected this January.
First experience was at Flip Expo in France last April 1&2. Despite very early software the game play seemed rather complete. On that game the hole of the SIM card already had a lot of wear on the top side (next to the upper ramp entrance) but not so visible at the phone scoop.
Second experience was at the Belgian Open Pinball early October. Than I was hooked for sure and ordered mine just days later.
Last experience was at the DPO Expo in the Netherlands. I played the one Jean Paul de Win got that very Friday and when someone was playing Chaos in Quatum City started. That feature is added later, I don't know which software version it had. Also the pictures with the high scores were new to me.
Being a fan of probably pintables of all ages (and took my mission to play as many as possible different tables) I like them from quite a lot different designers. Pat Lawlor has quite a nice list of games. So, the price of a DI LE might be high you may think but you may well sell all your previous Pat designed tables as DI seems to feature them all somewhere. Just to give the players State side an impression. The LE version in Europe costs $ 12,100 all inclusive.
For those of whom the name Jean Paul de Win doesn't sound a bell, he is well into the graphics on the big screen on all four JJP games.

Same story for me. Got the PNY today, put 1.50 on it and the game detected the drive and upgraded, nice and easy getting to 1.52 now, wish I had this usb drive the whole time! Of course right before updating the left flipper stopped going down completely, gotta fix that before I can see the new code!

Return spring may have broke.

Here is a quick fix : Bend last loop over. Voila a new spring.

LTG : )

goodasnew (resized).JPG

fix (resized).JPG

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This brings up something happening on WoZ for me. It's destroying springs in 1-2 days on the Munchkin loop mini-flipper. I put a new flipper spring on. Come back 1-2 days later and it's non-functional. When I look at it, it's all stretched out to 3-4x its normal length with loose loops, and stressed like it's 10 years old. happened 3 times now. Any idea what could be happening?

Something's messed up. Spring catching on something and pulled from that point ruining the spring.

LTG : )

Both ends are still connected, but the spring in-between is blown out and the metal stressed and brittle as if it had a ton of power run through it (this happens in only 1-2 days). Everything looks fine and plays okay when I change out the spring initially, though...

All 3 of my springs have broken now.

I did the "LTG Special" on them and they are working now. I will buy some spare springs next time I order some parts.

Does it ? Put a meter on it and see if you have a weird short somewhere. One probe on spring one probe on ground.

I've never heard of a spring problem like that.

Next time, move a spring from one of your lower flippers up there and put the new spring on the lower, to see if you ran into a bad batch of springs.

LTG : )

I’ve had a return spring break on my upper flipper. Just made another loop and works great.

OK.

EDIT: Or did you want to elaborate on that?

Go into settings and increase the coil power for the Ball trough VUK. For some reason it's always too low on every JJP game we ever got.

Same to me ... 3 springs so far ...
I changed with new WMS springs but they are a little softer than the JJP ones. next time I will change to the big spring directly over the plunger like on Sys11.
IMHO the best solution ...

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