(Topic ID: 177016)

Dialed In Owners and Fans Club


By goren1818

2 years ago



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#1601 1 year ago
Quoted from mtp78:

Can anyone explain the basic rules of the game....

In case you want more detail:
http://tiltforums.com/t/dialed-in-rulesheet-wiki/2855

TL;DR
Order of importance:
(1) Getting SIM Cards is most important, and any lit uncollected SIM Cards are lost if you drain.
(2) Completing modes (because this lights a SIM Card).
(3) Mode scoring.
(4) Multiball scoring.
(5) BOB modes, Theater awards, and Drones, etc.
Mini-wizard and wizard modes are lucrative, if you can get to them, and their scoring is based on how you performed during modes.

#1602 1 year ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

No SIM card. No progress to be made towards anything.

But you can collect any *lit* SIM cards during Chaos in Quantum City MB, correct?

#1603 1 year ago
Quoted from Snailman:

But you can collect any *lit* SIM cards during Chaos in Quantum City MB, correct?

Not positive myself but I don;t see any reason you wouldn't...they don't 'turn off' for any other MB.

#1604 1 year ago

I'll be due to replace the rubber soon, what are y'all putting on your games? Thinking of going with Titans but would like to hear what others have done and the results.
Got a set of Cliffys a while ago but had a SIM card scoop installed from the factory. Have a V2 phone scoop Cliffy coming and will probably put them all in then. Should be good to go for a while hopefully.

#1605 1 year ago

Allready changed my sling rubbers and lots of mini post ones with really good white rubber i use on all my pins. Well its all ready started to get beat up also after few hundred games. Only pin ive ever seen this happen on so fast.... they really take a beating.

#1606 1 year ago

marco white rubber

#1607 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Allready changed my sling rubbers and lots of mini post ones with really good white rubber i use on all my pins. Well its all ready started to get beat up also after few hundred games. Only pin ive ever seen this happen on so fast.... they really take a beating.

This game rocks and rolls

#1608 1 year ago

For rubber replacement, I recommend
https://www.titanpinball.com/kits/index.php/view/id/601

It is amazing how quickly the the dirt shows on the factory white rubber and even the red flippers.

#1609 1 year ago
Quoted from pinhacker71:

How do you guys remove Mylar ove magnet at theater. I’ve removed drone but reaching theater is a pain. Do I have to remove theater to access.

I used a very sharp x-acto with a long handle and took my time. Was able to do it without removing theatre.

#1610 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I agree. I have both sets of protectors and I'm only using 1 cliffy (v2) on the phone scoop. Seems like the SIM shot wouldn't take as much abuse (since it's not a VUK). The phone scoop is a tad more difficult, but not a big deal.
snaroff

SIM hole is the one that has clear cracking and playfield chipping on a number of machines. It's more fragile than the phone scoop. I wouldn't leave it unprotected.

#1611 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Someone actually installed HALF a post rubber on the right outlane post that has the double rubbers.

Whoa, mine was the same.

#1612 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

I used a very sharp x-acto with a long handle and took my time. Was able to do it without removing theatre.

Whoa! How'd you pull that off? Did you cut from underneath the pf? I'm about to do mine soon, so I'm curious to know.

I'm guessing there is a slight gap that you can get the blade into between the pf and magnet? Did you have to adjust the magnet after to make it flush with the pf? And did you have residue to remove?

#1613 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

Whoa! How'd you pull that off? Did you cut from underneath the pf? I'm about to do mine soon, so I'm curious to know.
I'm guessing there is a slight gap that you can get the blade into between the pf and magnet? Did you have to adjust the magnet after to make it flush with the pf? And did you have residue to remove?

I just cut it from an angle, but I didn't do it in one motion. The back was the worst part. I had a tiny bit of residue to remove. It did change the throw of the magnet, for some reason, but a little adjustment and it was fine (until 1.50, but I think that's a software issue).

This is the x-acto kit I use:
amazon.com link »

#1614 1 year ago
Quoted from Damien:

Whoa! How'd you pull that off? Did you cut from underneath the pf? I'm about to do mine soon, so I'm curious to know.
I'm guessing there is a slight gap that you can get the blade into between the pf and magnet? Did you have to adjust the magnet after to make it flush with the pf? And did you have residue to remove?

That’s what I did.. remove theatre magnet and carefully cut Mylar out, use a little goo gone on he magnet to get sticky off, re install/level magnet and your done.

#1615 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

SIM hole is the one that has clear cracking and playfield chipping on a number of machines. It's more fragile than the phone scoop. I wouldn't leave it unprotected.

Wish I would have had your advice earlier. The damage below happened yesterday evening. Game has 76 plays...manufactured 5 months ago. So sad. Since the phone scoop has a VUK, it makes no sense the SIM hole is more fragile. I've owned many Stern & B/W pins and have never had anything like this happen. Considering the difficulty of installing the SIM protector, I was planning on doing it after 100 plays (I typically do a mini-shop job every 100 plays). The design of this hole must be flawed in some way, especially if it's happening to a number of machines. My KISS Premium has hundreds of plays and no protection and there is almost no damage (since even thin Cliffies make the shot impossible given the size of the hole). And it's a VUK!

Considering the situation, it's unfortunate that JJP didn't release a strongly worded bulletin that emphasized the fragility of the SIM hole and urgency to install the protectors. If they did, I didn't get the message unfortunately. Don't know how many machines they shipped without protectors...mine is LE #96. For every other pin I've owned, damage to unprotected holes/VUKS was much more gradual/incremental. Sigh. I love this machine and feel awful.

IMG_8148 (resized).jpg

#1616 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Wish I would have had your advice earlier. The damage below happened yesterday evening. Game has 76 plays...manufactured 5 months ago. So sad. Since the phone scoop has a VUK, it makes no sense the SIM hole is more fragile. I've owned many Stern & B/W pins and have never had anything like this happen. Considering the difficulty of installing the SIM protector, I was planning on doing it after 100 plays (I typically do a mini-shop job every 100 plays). The design of this hole must be flawed in some way. If not, then the wood is just way more fragile than the Stern & B/W pins I've owned. My KISS Premium has hundreds of plays and no protection and there is almost no damage (since even thin Cliffies make the shot impossible given the size of the hole). And it's a VUK!
Considering the situation, it's unfortunate that JJP didn't release a strongly worded bulletin that emphasized the fragility of the SIM hole and urgency to install the protectors. If they did, I didn't get the message unfortunately. Don't know how many machines they shipped without protectors...mine is LE #96. For every other pin I've owned, damage to unprotected holes/VUKS was much more gradual/incremental. Sigh. I love this machine and feel awful.

Unfortunately its a bad design bc of the shape and the edges aren't angled like phone scoop . Good news is cliffy will cover it easily and install in 15 min....

#1617 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Unfortunately its a bad design bc of the shape and the edges aren't angled like phone scoop . Good news is cliffy will cover it easily and install in 15 min....

Unfortunately, the damage is larger than the surface area covered by the Cliffy. Looks like the JJP protector was designed to cover more surface area. If they designed these AFTER having customer damage & complaints, I guess it makes sense that they are on the hefty side.

Considering the technology/cost/craftsmanship, it's kind of shocking there isn't consensus on how to design a hole without tearing up a playfield!

#1618 1 year ago

It sld cover most and u sldnt b able to tell bc of where its located...20171118_200401 (resized).jpg

#1619 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Unfortunately, the damage is larger than the surface area covered by the Cliffy. Looks like the JJP protector was designed to cover more surface area.

Yup, that's called "design quality" here.

#1620 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Wish I would have had your advice earlier. The damage below happened yesterday evening. Game has 76 plays...manufactured 5 months ago. So sad. Since the phone scoop has a VUK, it makes no sense the SIM hole is more fragile. I've owned many Stern & B/W pins and have never had anything like this happen. Considering the difficulty of installing the SIM protector, I was planning on doing it after 100 plays (I typically do a mini-shop job every 100 plays). The design of this hole must be flawed in some way, especially if it's happening to a number of machines. My KISS Premium has hundreds of plays and no protection and there is almost no damage (since even thin Cliffies make the shot impossible given the size of the hole). And it's a VUK!
Considering the situation, it's unfortunate that JJP didn't release a strongly worded bulletin that emphasized the fragility of the SIM hole and urgency to install the protectors. If they did, I didn't get the message unfortunately. Don't know how many machines they shipped without protectors...mine is LE #96. For every other pin I've owned, damage to unprotected holes/VUKS was much more gradual/incremental. Sigh. I love this machine and feel awful.

This is why mylar won't help. It has to be covered with metal, and Cliffy has the best design for both holes.

#1621 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Unfortunately, the damage is larger than the surface area covered by the Cliffy. Looks like the JJP protector was designed to cover more surface area. If they designed these AFTER having customer damage & complaints, I guess it makes sense that they are on the hefty side.
Considering the technology/cost/craftsmanship, it's kind of shocking there isn't consensus on how to design a hole without tearing up a playfield!

Pat is mostly from the era before playfield clearcoat started sucking because of environmental ingredient bans.

The JJP ones cover a little more surface area, but they're thicker (not good) and don't cover as much of the inside area of the SIM hole as the Cliffys (also not good).

#1622 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Pat is mostly from the era before playfield clearcoat started sucking because of environmental ingredient bans.

I don't buy that logic. Stern clearcoat have to deal with the same "environmental ingredient bans" and I've owned plenty of their pins with MANY plays. None have ever chipped in this fashion. The hole design is badly flawed if many PF's are being damaged with so few plays. Not trying to get into a Stern vs. JJP argument, just reminding you that this damage is highly unusual. This type of damage after 4 months and 76 plays is manufacturer defect...plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the chemical composition of clear!

#1623 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I don't buy that logic. Stern clearcoat have to deal with the same "environmental ingredient bans" and I've owned plenty of their pins with MANY plays. None have ever chipped in this fashion. The hole design is badly flawed if many PF's are being damaged with so few plays. Not trying to get into a Stern vs. JJP argument, just reminding you that this damage is highly unusual. This type of damage after 4 months and 76 plays is manufacturer defect...plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the chemical composition of clear!

Not that unusual for any of the manufacturers now. MMr playfields have had the same thing, as have all recent Sterns except Aerosmith (to my knowledge). Also, isn't JJP having all theirs made by Mirco now, which is Germany (which has even tighter environmental regulations)?

#1624 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Not that unusual for any of the manufacturers now. MMr playfields have had the same thing, as have all recent Sterns except Aerosmith (to my knowledge). Also, isn't JJP having all theirs made by Mirco now, which is Germany (which has even tighter environmental regulations)?

In my experience, it's unusual (having owned many modern NIB Stern pins without hole protectors). From my perspective, this is a design problem (not a manufacturing problem). If the hole were *designed* differently, the chipping wouldn't be as dramatic. You evidently believe it's a manufacturing problem. If you have any links to the MMr problems that resemble my damage/photo, I'd be interested in seeing them. If you look at the photo again, it's not just clear damage, a nice chuck of the wood/art has been chipped off. Thx.

#1625 1 year ago

Some pics of afmr (before stock protector) and mmr.... 9c4c291953aa971e9ca6717a064a7a5f02b5bb80 (resized).jpgf0ed643c6fcfa7183c389ac19713f915abfa7b8c (resized).jpg

#1626 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Some pics of afmr (before stock protector) and mmr....

Bingo. Similar MMr pics and recent Stern chipping pics out there, too.

#1627 1 year ago
Quoted from vireland:

Bingo. Similar MMr pics and recent Stern chipping pics out there, too.

Yea i have some stern pics somewhere....

#1628 1 year ago

Metal versus wood/paint, eventually metal wins so cliffys are an excellent choice.

#1629 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Some pics of afmr (before stock protector) and mmr....

Have a Mantis protector on my AFM. 0 damage in 7 years. For new/restored pins that don't need surface damage protected/covered, the inside mounted protectors are a great design (since they don't effect the shot feel on the PF). I have an AFMr on order, so thanks for reminding me to check if they protected or not.

Screen Shot 2017-11-19 at 4.58.12 AM (resized).png

#1630 1 year ago

As I mentioned previously my smartphone screen died just after updating to 1.5 having only owned the machine a day or 2. I'm still waiting for a replacement but in the meantime I get to hear the ' Here's your new phone ' and ' we have detected a problem with your phone ' callouts every time I play ..Bastards!

Anyway, I was wondering what skillshot everyone plunges for? has anyone developed a strategy for which to choose? there doesn't seem to be one that's the one to always go for ( like in LOTR for example ). I usually try to go for the points but for no other reason than I haven't worked out why/when you should go for any other choice.

#1631 1 year ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

As I mentioned previously my smartphone screen died just after updating to 1.5 having only owned the machine a day or 2. I'm still waiting for a replacement but in the meantime I get to hear the ' Here's your new phone ' and ' we have detected a problem with your phone ' callouts every time I play ..Bastards!
Anyway, I was wondering what skillshot everyone plunges for? has anyone developed a strategy for which to choose? there doesn't seem to be one that's the one to always go for ( like in LOTR for example ). I usually try to go for the points but for no other reason than I haven't worked out why/when you should go for any other choice.

At this point, I'm still experimenting. I think it would be cool for the rules to recognize when the skill shot is made during normal game play. Always enjoyed the "secret passage" on WH20 and "sneaky shots/locks" on Popadiuk titles.

#1632 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I don't buy that logic. Stern clearcoat have to deal with the same "environmental ingredient bans" and I've owned plenty of their pins with MANY plays. None have ever chipped in this fashion. The hole design is badly flawed if many PF's are being damaged with so few plays. Not trying to get into a Stern vs. JJP argument, just reminding you that this damage is highly unusual. This type of damage after 4 months and 76 plays is manufacturer defect...plain and simple. Has nothing to do with the chemical composition of clear!

So it appears that anything on a pin you have a problem with is a design flaw. Thicker clears chip, eventually the wood will wear too. Look at old MBs and AFMs. Play and enjoy your game.

#1633 1 year ago
Quoted from Marvin:

So it appears that anything on a pin you have a problem with is a design flaw. Thicker clears chip, eventually the wood will wear too. Look at old MBs and AFMs. Play and enjoy your game.

False. Old MB's and AFM's took years to get beaten up (I'm 56 and played them when they were new and witnessed them aging at arcades). The SOL holes didn't chip like this with less than 100 plays. No way. And again, the SOL is a VUK! Not a passive hole leading to a subway. As bigd1979 smartly noted above, having straight edges on the right edge is asking for problems...the hole dimensions and left/rear guards are also likely contributing to the damage. Again, I've owned 30-40 pinball machines and if this were "normal", I would have installed Cliffies from Day 1? Give me break, man.

Installed a Cliffy this morning - now I can continue to play and enjoy my game without abusing the SIM hole. The JJP protectors would have covered the last 5% of the damage, however are too thick and would likely make the shot more difficult (based on Pinsider feedback).

IMG_8171 (resized).jpg

#1634 1 year ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Some pics of afmr (before stock protector) and mmr....

Same story here. Granted I have a load of plays on my MMR. But the "lock" hole and drain hole on my AFMR were chipping so badly that I had to stop playing until the Cliffys arrived.

I'm new to the hobby, but if they put a couple more coats on, would it not improve this?

-1
#1635 1 year ago

I don't know who mfgs CGC's playfields, but CGC's and JJP's are remarkably similar. They both chip very easily. This isn't a design issue....the exact same areas on MM that took thousands of plays to wear away have chipped on MMR at 50 plays in.

I've own several new Sterns and have never experienced any chipping. I will say their clear coats are noticeably thinner than CGC and JJPs, but chipping has never been an issue for me on Stern playfields.

I have restored two machines - a Dr. Dude and a TAF with PPG clear coat. They both have a nice thick layer, a bit thicker than what you might find on JJP/CGC, but nothing crazy. No chipping after hundreds of plays. Both games have several areas that would chip quite easily if they had the ceramic/whatever clear that JJP and CGC use.

So from my experience, this issue rests entirely with the clear coat being used, and despite environmental regulations, it is still possible to secure a clear coat product that does not chip so easily. Just because a playfield manufacturer chooses to go with a certain clear coat, does not mean it's the best one they could be using. None of the major pinball or playfield manufacturers are ISO-certified, so you will get inconsistent quality from game to game. Just the way it is.

#1636 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I don't know who mfgs CGC's playfields,

CGC mfgs them.

LTG : )

#1637 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Installed a Cliffy this morning - now I can continue to play and enjoy my game without abusing the SIM hole. The JJP protectors would have covered the last 5% of the damage, however are too thick and would likely make the shot more difficult (based on Pinsider feedback).

Agree. +1 to JJP for getting protectors out there eventually, but why do it from scratch when what they have is inferior to what's already available? Why reinvent the wheel, but not as good?

#1638 1 year ago

500 plays with JJP protectors and changed to Cliffys last night. Everybody has an opinion and mine is that phone scoop shot is way better now!! Not to mention looks way better. Just personal opinion but JJP shouldn't have tried to re invent and just worked something out with the professional Cliffy!!!

#1639 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I don't know who mfgs CGC's playfields, but CGC's and JJP's are remarkably similar. They both chip very easily. This isn't a design issue....the exact same areas on MM that took thousands of plays to wear away have chipped on MMR at 50 plays in.
I've own several new Sterns and have never experienced any chipping. I will say their clear coats are noticeably thinner than CGC and JJPs, but chipping has never been an issue for me on Stern playfields.
I have restored two machines - a Dr. Dude and a TAF with PPG clear coat. They both have a nice thick layer, a bit thicker than what you might find on JJP/CGC, but nothing crazy. No chipping after hundreds of plays. Both games have several areas that would chip quite easily if they had the ceramic/whatever clear that JJP and CGC use.
So from my experience, this issue rests entirely with the clear coat being used, and despite environmental regulations, it is still possible to secure a clear coat product that does not chip so easily. Just because a playfield manufacturer chooses to go with a certain clear coat, does not mean it's the best one they could be using. None of the major pinball or playfield manufacturers are ISO-certified, so you will get inconsistent quality from game to game. Just the way it is.

Interesting...thanks for the info! Dialed In is my first JJP and I have 0 experience with CGC products. I have an AFMr on order and now I'm wondering if it's the right idea.

You also confirmed my experience with Stern pins...never had any chipping. I've owned many B/W high-end restores (AFM, TOTAN, CC, MM) and never had ANY chipping. The Dialed In clear looks thick/gorgeous, and I guess I thought that translated into durable.

Hard for me to see how the damage below after 76 games is purely a CC issue. The artwork and top layer of plywood are missing. Maybe the wood is also much softer than the products I've had in the past? Design issue or not, if JJP/CGC are using PF's that damage this easily, they are responsible for doing whatever they can to product the critical sections of the PF. Stern and B/W represent the majority of modern pinball machines and their PF's don't shatter soon after taking them out of the box. Anyone who thinks this is normal hasn't been collecting that long...

snaroff

IMG_8166 (resized).jpeg

#1640 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Interesting...thanks for the info! Dialed In is my first JJP and I have 0 experience with CGC products. I have an AFMr on order and now I'm wondering if it's the right idea.
You also confirmed my experience with Stern pins...never had any chipping. I've owned many B/W high-end restores (AFM, TOTAN, CC, MM) and never had ANY chipping. The Dialed In clear looks thick/gorgeous, and I guess I thought that translating into durable.
Hard for me to see how the damage below after 76 games is purely a CC issue. The artwork and top layer of plywood are missing. Maybe the wood is also much softer than the products I've had in the past? Design issue or not, if JJP/CGC are using PF's that damage this easily, they are responsible for doing whatever they can to product the critical sections of the PF. Stern and B/W represent the majority of modern pinball machines and their PF's don't shatter soon after taking them out of the box. Anyone who thinks this is normal hasn't been collecting that long...
snaroff

A guy that paints for a living said (about this on another machine, maybe WoZ?) that he felt the surface wasn't prepped right and the paint didn't grab the wood as it should as a result, then putting thick clear on it made it more brittle added to the problem. I'm paraphrasing, but that was his general opinion. Crazy Mirco/JJP haven't worked it out yet after all these machines made. They have it the worst in this area between CGC/Stern/JJP.

#1641 1 year ago


Quoted from LTG:CGC mfgs them.
LTG : )

I thought it was Mirco?

Added 23 months ago: Confirmed NOT Mirco.

#1642 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Have a Mantis protector on my AFM. 0 damage in 7 years. For new/restored pins that don't need surface damage protected/covered, the inside mounted protectors are a great design (since they don't effect the shot feel on the PF). I have an AFMr on order, so thanks for reminding me to check if they protected or not.

Is that a repro AFM PF?

#1643 1 year ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I don't know who mfgs CGC's playfields, but CGC's and JJP's are remarkably similar. They both chip very easily. This isn't a design issue....the exact same areas on MM that took thousands of plays to wear away have chipped on MMR at 50 plays in.
I've own several new Sterns and have never experienced any chipping. I will say their clear coats are noticeably thinner than CGC and JJPs, but chipping has never been an issue for me on Stern playfields.
I have restored two machines - a Dr. Dude and a TAF with PPG clear coat. They both have a nice thick layer, a bit thicker than what you might find on JJP/CGC, but nothing crazy. No chipping after hundreds of plays. Both games have several areas that would chip quite easily if they had the ceramic/whatever clear that JJP and CGC use.
So from my experience, this issue rests entirely with the clear coat being used, and despite environmental regulations, it is still possible to secure a clear coat product that does not chip so easily. Just because a playfield manufacturer chooses to go with a certain clear coat, does not mean it's the best one they could be using. None of the major pinball or playfield manufacturers are ISO-certified, so you will get inconsistent quality from game to game. Just the way it is.

I just sent a met playfield back to stern with major chipping. 3 inch radius around the sparky magnet completely chipped off and a huge chip were ball exits shooter lane. They are replacing so all is good but it looks like they are all having playfield issues of some sort.

#1644 1 year ago
Quoted from woody76:

I just sent a met playfield back to stern with major chipping. 3 inch radius around the sparky magnet completely chipped off and a huge chip were ball exits shooter lane. They are replacing so all is good but it looks like they are all having playfield issues of some sort.

I don't meant to claim that Stern never has had chipping. They've had big issues lately from what I read on here with playfields on many games. But at some point in the last 4 years they did know how to produce playfields that had proper paint. I also own Metallica but mine was made in 2014 and it's a quality playfield...3000+ plays and no chips or wear. It sucks that the same game can have such wild variations in quality.

#1645 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Is that a repro AFM PF?

Correct. Part of a restoration I did with HEP in late 2010 (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0d5Uzl7VMlq2W).

#1646 1 year ago


Quoted from snaroff:Correct. Part of a restoration I did with HEP in late 2010 (https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0d5Uzl7VMlq2W).

The current repro AFM Playfields are from Mirco in Germany, which is who also makes JJP playfields. I wonder what's changed now that JJP pfs are having these chipping issues.
One thing I have noticed with JJP/Mirco pfs is they don't dimple nearly as much as Stern, yet they seem to be prone to chipping on edges. It might be that the wood is older/denser on Mirco, or there might be a problem with the paint adhering as someone has pointed out. Or maybe the clear is harder and therefore less flexible, so it chips but doesn't dimple.
Added 23 months ago: Edit: AFM repro PF's are not by Mirco.

Added 22 months ago: .

#1647 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

The current repro AFM Playfields are from Mirco in Germany, which is who also makes JJP playfields. I wonder what's changed now that JJP pfs are having these chipping issues.
One thing I have noticed with JJP/Mirco pfs is they don't dimple nearly as much as Stern, yet they seem to be prone to chipping on edges. It might be that the wood is older/denser on Mirco, or there might be a problem with the paint adhering as someone has pointed out. Or maybe the clear is harder and therefore less flexible, so it chips but doesn't dimple.

No clue. My Mirco PF has held up very well, but HEP adds his own clear (so it's not really a fair comparison). My HEP AFM has plenty of dimples, but no cracking whatsoever.

In a perfect world, the small number of companies producing PF's should consult with folks like HEP, Kruzman, and other world-class restorers to get advice on how to do things "right". The damage on my Dialed In PF is new territory for me...and I've been collector for almost 15 years. I heard of early WOZ pins having chipping issues, however I figured they would have solved those problem by now. Poor assumption. Still love DILE, despite it's imperfections!

snaroff

#1648 1 year ago

Ive owned restored pins with playfields (mm, mb, ss) redone by the big name restorers and they were very nice but without mantis/cliffy protectors they also developed cracking at the edges of scoops and vuks....so i installed protectors before playing anymore.

#1649 1 year ago
Quoted from woody76:

I just sent a met playfield back to stern with major chipping. 3 inch radius around the sparky magnet completely chipped off and a huge chip were ball exits shooter lane. They are replacing so all is good but it looks like they are all having playfield issues of some sort.

How many plays? HUO?

#1650 1 year ago

I decided to play some games on my new DI with the factory 'cliffy' in the SIM hole. I played about 300 games on my original DI with no protector at all so I feel I have a good reference point.

I found that the shot from the upper right flipper is exactly the same. Their cliffy does not prevent any shots from going in that would have otherwise gone in with no protector at all.

The main difference seems to be slow roll-ins. While fast roll-ins (eg. off Bing Bang and left ticket standups) went in just as often as no protector, slower roll-ins tended to deviate at the lip of the way-too-thick factory protector. If I had to estimate, you'll lose 1 out of 5 SIM card shots with the factory protector vs. no protector.

I got nervous from people on here saying the shot was impossible to make with the factory protector on, and this is not true at all. But there is a small advantage in having no protector or presumably the thinner Cliffy protector.

On the other hand, the phone scoop seems to hold up pretty well with just the mylar around it. Makes sense based on how the damage to this hole actually occurs (using my older DI with 300+ long-length plays as a reference). I do not believe a metal protector is needed here.

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