Boerne, TX
Quoted from AndHart120:Damn I wonder what happened here? Totally worn and broken to the wood.
Man those Stern PF's are having such difficulty! Oh wait, its a JJP PF, lovely. 
(Topic ID: 174278)
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Dialed In
Jersey Jack, 2017
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Quoted from FalconPunch:Luckily these are prototype games which won't be in production for another 3 months! Plenty of time for them to fix.
Yep, that's what they all say. 
Quoted from clg:As I am sure you know Ice they put these games out for testing (something Stern seems to have stopped doing) to find things like this. If the production games ship looking the same I would be worried but we still have a while just how long remains to be seen!
Don't you think it kind of looks like many of the Woz production games around the tree pop bumpers?
Quoted from clg:Yep which was a mix of one of the manufacturers and lack of mylar. Fixed now. I am glad they are testing and obviously they would be screwed if they were shipping production games like this but I doubt VERY much that will happen.
You never know, anything can happen, look at Stern after all these years.
And it wasn't just the tree pop bumpers. Woz had some significant clear chipping issues along with the Spinning House mini PF border getting destroyed by airballs.
Quoted from Pinballomatic:Yeah, no. Bader hasn't done playfields since I really don't remember.
I meant the crap they had laying around from yrs ago and hadn't burned yet for firewood
Quoted from BrianBannon:I plan on operating Dialed In, so I see all that wear as a great sign. It means that the game has been up and running, not down because of some mechanical issue. It isn't all that hard to protect the areas that are showing wear, not a worry for me.
You should ask Extreme Pinball about his routing experience with Woz and TH
Quoted from Chrizg:The larger magnet core style used on TWD and after is a proven fix for those types of issues. I have a TWD with 60k+ games and the area around the core looks new.
By FAR, much better quality than JJP on those magnets, not even close. Yep, my TWD looks great still as well, along with my GBLE.
The JJP superiority build idea is a farce in so many ways. My Woz is a great example.
I have spent more time and BS on it than ALL of my Stern pins combined.
Tree pop bumpers falling off, flaky switches, chipping, blown fuses, flipper issues, light boards, etc. etc.
Quoted from jar155:No, it's a fact that JJP uses higher quality components. They've just had some early growing pains in regards to engineering. Coming into game three, it looks like they've figured a lot of those issues out.
Wear around a magnet on a test game doesn't say much. Wear around a home use game would.
"Looks like" means nothing though right?
I say "wear" around that magnet means a lot. Can't be that many plays.
In any event, I'm not paying $9500 for "looks like" anything. Just saying.
I go with what i like and what has served me well.
As for "higher quality components", I'll go with what Extreme Pinball says with his high volume JJP and STERN routed pins.
Quoted from clg:Ice you are sounding more and more like Panzer about JJP when you talk about Stern!
You should have seen me back in the day clg! I was smoking the JJP weed hook, line and sinker.
Just trying to keep it real. Long term it all looks like shit apparently. Plus i like to argue, especially with Panzer.
Seriously though, I've had great experience with Stern pins and not so much with my Woz, BUT they do have great service with Lloyd and crew. And i still really like playing my Woz!
Quoted from jar155:Didn't you get in on Batman '66 and it's made-of-clay magnet? I mean, c'mon...
It's the style these days. Soft metal is all the rage! Looks like hammered artwork.
At least its big enough to handle the job. Good lord, that little BB gun pea shooter crapola magnet sucks.
Stern dropping the mic on that itty bitty JJP magnet.
Quoted from solarvalue:It seems like you had a bad experience with WOZ and have made your mind up about JJP. That's not really "keeping it real". Keeping it real would involve judging each new machine on it's merits.
Not at all re JJP. I had a deposit on TH for a LONG time until it was clear that Expo that it would be at least another year before we got our games. TH looks good, other options came out and i got tired of waiting.
Lawlor is a top designer. Was going to designate $$ for that release until the theme was announced.
Game #4, we will see and judge on its own merits.
I've had great experiences with my Stern pins, most of all, fun to play. Woz has been good too. All the issues were resolved.
When i start to hear route operators state how much higher quality JJP is in relation to Stern then I'll go with that. Either way, its not a huge issue that others try and make it into.
The enjoyment of the pin comes first, not necessarily that Stern's magnets are much better than JJP.
Quoted from Whysnow:limited sample size (we have TH and not WOZ) but relative to all the Sterns we have bought in the past 3 years to route, TH has been lower total issues and leaps and bounds higher quality.
That's not what Extreme Pinball claims
You guys can justify it and tell yourselves whatever you want.
The ONLY reason they are "field testing" it is because they aren't ready to mass produce the pins.
Per Jack many times, "We will follow the Stern model of distributing games in the future, no more deposits, we will announce a pin and start shipping it shortly thereafter".
Straight from Jack. What can we ever believe?
"Don't get me wrong, I've suffered my fair share of JJP failures, and plenty of them. Just today I had to pull the driver board out of a WOZECLE and replace a 540IRL transistor that shorted, which of course subsequently fried the trough VUK solenoid.
It has also been my experience that JJP playfield build & clear quality is no where near the high quality of Stern's..... until recently, of course. The playfield on my WOZ RRLE is pretty much destroyed after only 11,000 plays. Looks just like the pictures of iceman44. Mine is even worse around the 4 pop bumpers. While the playfields on my Iron Man VE at 24,000 plays, and my AC/DC Pro at 16,100 plays, always polish up like new when they get cleaned & waxed.
No comparison..... until recently, of course."
Both have their problems. The high quality high horse has been beaten to death.
Quoted from Whysnow:also, there are some things Stern does well (customer support has been fantastic aside from the recent issues and no reply on GB pf issues).
However, product base quality and QC out the door is not one of them and I would say their biggest area for potential improvement (followed closely by better PR/communication and clear commitment to delivering on code).
Hilton, I agree that JJP support is really great. I've had to use it with Woz so i know. I've never had to use Stern support because my pins haven't ever required it but from what i hear they are excellent too.
You have 1 Hobbit on route right? How many Stern pins? I believed from day one that JJP pins with video should do well on location.
Better built? In some ways sure. Reliability? Not buying that one based on my experience. Quality? Not in any way that makes the pin play any better or make it more fun.
If JJP ever even comes close to making the number of pinball machines that Stern does in the future then we can better compare minor QC issues rolling out the door.
Quoted from Whysnow:currently 7 (have had more but some left over time). Every single one has had some sort of issue out of the box or within the first 200 plays which took the game down and needed either parts or major tweaking and fixing to get it to play correctly.
4 of them have insert ghosting currently (KISS, SMVE, GB and minor on GOTprem).
I've just had some very good luck with the 6 Sterns I've bought. A blown ring fuse on LotrLE, reseating a connector on Ac/dc trough, Doc Ock opto on SM and nothing with WPT, TWDLE or GBLE. Hopefully the ghosting issues will be solved going forward.
Quoted from Whysnow:We still do this 100% for the fun factor and buy games we want to play and share, but the decision is getting easier to buy the higher quality JJP products while the risks get larger with buying the poor QC and quality Stern products.
Are you going to route a DI?
I was at the new Pinballz location in Austin on Saturday. $1 a play for the most part except for the oldies. Newest pin they had there was Star Trek. Played a TOM that was rode hard and worn out. AMH was still in decent shape. I wouldn't go back to that location for pinball.
The main location is much better.
Quoted from Chrizg:I will route a DI once I see game times in the 2-2:30 time frame. I saw guys at expo play 20 minute games. Not much $ to be made on 20min games
. You can set to play brutal
Def looked like long ball times
1 week later
Quoted from Whysnow:With over 10,000 plays,i would say it is doing pretty damn good for a prototype.
No way.
And NO WAY, 10k plays are on that. Where TF do you get that from?
The magnet is horrible.
If it's a Micro PF like Lloyd says, "to come" then no biggie
But you guys are F ing crazy if you think this is acceptable
Quoted from Whysnow:Assuming it is one of the first builds, that is the accurate #.
Says who?
Quoted from BladeFury:Ice give it a rest my gosh it seems like every time I come across a post from you it's negative in some way looking to start an argument....do what you want just gets old in my book...
NOT giving it a rest. YOU give it a rest.
It is what it is. The sycophants don't like it. Believe what you want to believe.
Quoted from jgentry:Do you remember the jjp lovers that had to bash stern in every stern thread? You've become that same broken record bashing on jjp.
The magnet wear is concerning but without knowing the number of plays you can't really say if it's a huge issue. The scoop has less wear then most modern stern scoops after 500 plays. This is also a test game so who knows we're this playfield was made and if it's to normal standards. Even if it is a normal playfield the whole point of it is to find these issues and fix them before production.
Nope.
I have a Woz, several Stern's and several Bally pins.
The PF is shit. Which doesn't matter if Micro is actually shipping.
The sales of DI is going to be the issue.
When you can buy a $5200 Stern pro with Lcd, tell me how a $9k plus DI pin is gonna survive when JJP is already in the red big time?
Btw, compare factory's and what is going on.
Quoted from jgentry:You just blindly paid 10k for an LE from a company that's having a complete playfield debacle. Do you even think before you type half the time? You keep blabbing about $5200 pros. How many pros are you buying?
And it's arriving on Monday. So I actually have a pin. Unlike the mystery BS date that JJP throws out there.
TWDLE, GBLE and now BM66LE.
Keep babbling about your $9k plus DI
Let's see where the sales end up? What do you think.
And only a handful of people even really care about this pin release now.
Quoted from jgentry:Those are not pros. So why are you not buying these super valued $5200 pros that are going to bury jjp?
I think all of the games are way overpriced. I'm buying older stuff and letting you guys blow 100k on limited editions. I think dialed in will sell pretty good though. It's their best game buy a lot and they still found people that would pay 9500 for red woz and 9000 for a hobbit.
I agree with the fact that ALL of these games are WAY overpriced! I'm paying it for what i like and its not JJP right now.
So the $5200 pro will sink them. The Red ruby and Hobbit $9k plus days are over. A DI at that price is a non starter and they know it.
Stern is going to crank out 3-5 more pins this year. It's gonna be an avalanche that crushes the higher overhead producers like JJP.
Quoted from PinMonk:Production JJP playfields KILL Stern in the quality department. And on shooting, I'll take what Dialed In has over the dead shot party of B'66 any day. Considering it's a thin reskin of BDK,
Not even remotely close to BDK reskin but i get the need to use that talking point in Stern bashing along with the PF issues they are having.
BM66 "shoots" great.
It's not the first time in their 30 year history and probably won't be the last.
As for the $9k plus pins I believe they sold 80 SLE's and 240 LE's.
I wonder how many DI's JJP expects to sell in the range of $8300-$9300 delivered?
The secondary market of Woz and Hobbits are $$$ losers for the Nib buyers. Same thing will apply to every $9k plus pin including Sterns.
While people continue to whine about pricing increases, Stern pinball is still the only place you can buy a pin for $5200.
There will also be plenty of chances to spend $8k plus on 2017 LE pins too, let's see how DI actually does sales wise IF it ever starts shipping in the first half of the year.
I too am a fan of all pinball.
And since you brought it up.
"You know I'm buying those armor upgrades whenever/if possible!
Also- About 6-7 ppl saw and played my BM66LE for their very first time last night on the stream. Every single person enjoyed it, said it was beautiful, and confirmed it felt nothing at all like BDK. (No disrespect to BDK).
The sky's the limit with the code and the villains, gadgets, tvs, sub-villains, etc etc, hundreds of episodes of corny dialogue for clips and call outs. Makes me wet just thinking about it. Love knowing that it will for sure get done too."
Quoted from clg:So Ice what were you drinking while posting last night?
Haha. Yep. Little Karbach Hopadillo brewskies
How did you know
Excellent BM66 stream last night by GAP!
Quoted from PanzerFreak:A new Star Wars pin sounds amazing. A new Star Wars pin that lacks unique code, has playfield issues, has mechanical issues, doesn't feature substantial code updates, etc...doesn't.
I'm a huge Ghostbusters fan, it's my favorite movie of all time...but I won't drop $5k-$8k simply on theme alone. These crazy NIB prices need to be justified by quality, gameplay features, and regular substantial (not just bug fixes) code updates.
And yet Stern will sell thousands of Star Wars pins, along with the other releases scheduled for 2017. Because it's Ritchie, will have great code and is a fantastic theme. Simple as that
And GB is a great pin with excellent code and unique packed layout
If you want to justify paying $9k in YOUR mind for a JJP DI, that's on you, go for it
Thousands of people disagree with your reasoning when it comes to Stern, including me
Quoted from PinMonk:Compared to WHAT? It has the most dead shots of any pin I've played in the last few years, at least. The left and right orbit shots are a rattle-y mess. Very hard to make a clean orbit shot, left or right, and that should be one of the easiest shots of all in a pin. Lazy Susan promotes dead shots, too. Left ramp has constant problems with the ball flying off the rails. It does not shoot great by any normal definition.
Compared to all the other pins I own and play all the time.
I heard the same BS with TWD early on
This pin will be special when it's done
Yes Panzer, I'm guzzling that kool aid! Tastes great
2 weeks later
Yeah yeah, the whole non stop whine and cry about how JJP is the gold standard on quality is an absolute F in g joke. That's my point
Has ZERO to do with DI itself, because I haven't actually played the pin, and unlike a lot of you I can form an objective opinion
So down vote that
Quoted from PanzerFreak:I think JJP is offering the best quality, value and code support out of all the current manufacturers. Have they had issues? Yes. Did they resolve them? Yes. Are they having crazy playfield issues and communicate poorly about issues? No.
I'm just glad that JJP is not releasing games with playfields that chip and resemble the surface of the moon after only a couple hundred plays.
I think you are wrong of course and as usual you have a biased opinion.
Since I own both, I don't have a bias.
Are you glad that once again Jack misrepresented not taking pre orders? When is this pin shipping?
You've heard the inconvenient truths from ops and yet you still have blinders on and zero ability to be objective 
But I forget, you can predict the future and you know for a fact what's going to happen
And I actually have fun playing all of my pins, I don't stand around with a magnifying glass and count dimples on my Woz or anything else
Btw, for those of you who that get your feelings hurt about some reality and criticism re JJP, come on over to the BM66 impression thread and dump on it like Panzer did over and over amongst many others, maybe that will make you feel better too, justification?
Quoted from Procrastinator:Well let's face it, you aren't exactly "playing" your B66....you know, the one that was a disaster NIB? Biased opinions? Get a grip, you come into JJP threads throwing your negativity around and say "I own both so I'm objective". It's a joke. The majority want both companies to do great while fixing the issues they do have, but your incessant trolling from thread to thread is quite lame and becoming pretty pathetic.
Go back 5-6 yrs ago and read the JJP threads
I want all companies to be great because I love pinball
I'm tired of the non stop Stern bashing as if they are complete garbage while touting JJP as being the great pillars of honesty, quality and greatness
Hang around a while, you'll get it
I have some of the same problems you do with Stern Panzer.
I defended you many times if you recall on "toy gate"!
You can't give one guy a pass while slamming another one, you know better.
That said, based on the lack of commentary in the DI threads I'm not sure many people even care. Yes of course there are some and once it gets out there and Keith does his thing it could be great.
I dropped out of Hobbit for a different reason, couldn't take the delay again after Woz, and I was fully paid.
As a huge fan of Lawlor I was expecting to buy this pin, theme alone nixed it for me. Nothing else.
I'm gonna continue to point out the BS though.
1 week later
Quoted from Procrastinator:Well let's face it, you aren't exactly "playing" your B66....you know, the one that was a disaster NIB? Biased opinions?
I'm playing it now and it kicks ass.
Physical replacement pin on the way to update code?
I'm looking forward to the new everything to see if it holds up.
Quoted from vicjw66:Ok. Time to ease up on whatever you're smoking.
It really does. Smoking nada. Just loving how it flips
Driver of that truck is smoking something. Looks cloudy and rainy. Wtf!
Already worn through the mylar and that damaged in such a short period of time?
Might just be the action and force of that magnet and nothing can be done about it.
I'm sure the much larger magnet on Stern pins helps alleviate some of that issue.
Quoted from LTG:And most likely another test game from their Chicago office swapped in.
Is that a Micro PF regardless of whether its a test game or not?
Quoted from LTG:No.
LTG : )
There you go. Hopefully problem solved then
Great video. Watched them all. Call outs are non existent but I'm sure will evolve with that crew.
It has ZERO to do with anything like the PF and magnet issues. And it looks like a lot of fun to play. I won't own it only because i really don't like the theme and it costs too much. Love to play it many times
Different theme for me? Absolutely. And this isn't a knock on people that like the theme. If you do, pin looks great!
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