Don't you think it kind of looks like many of the Woz production games around the tree pop bumpers?

Yep which was a mix of one of the manufacturers and lack of mylar. Fixed now. I am glad they are testing and obviously they would be screwed if they were shipping production games like this but I doubt VERY much that will happen.

You never know, anything can happen, look at Stern after all these years.

And it wasn't just the tree pop bumpers. Woz had some significant clear chipping issues along with the Spinning House mini PF border getting destroyed by airballs.

I wonder if Stern has a patent on the extended metal protector that they've been using on the magnets since TWD.

Maybe they pulled out one of the old Bader PF's for test pin.

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Yeah, no. Bader hasn't done playfields since I really don't remember.

I meant the crap they had laying around from yrs ago and hadn't burned yet for firewood

There's a reason why months of field testing that JJP do (and Dutch did) should be standard practice, and why Stern mostly ceasing it (not even a few weeks of location testing on some new games) and others not doing it at all should be very worrisome.

Having seen the fallout of lack of testing, and insufficient revision in the past year, and realised just how heavily corners are being cut, I'd be very wary of buying games that are either not long, long into their production cycles (ideally at least a year) or which have not been heavily location tested prior to production. Some new machines coming to market are receiving essentially no long term durability or stress testing (albeit I imagine Stern must still do some on automated test rigs in house).

Good on JJP for not pulling the game when pf damage started to occur, for PR reasons, and keeping it going, to see how bad the problem would become. That's vital data.

Good to know they are aware of it and can fix the issue, I was just surprised to see it!

I wonder how many plays that DI has had though? That prototype was likely at Expo and has then been in Level 257 for a couple of months and it is one of the only DIs on location so it must be getting hammered.

It would be interesting to see what the rest of the playfield is like. I heard there is also some wear at the scoop. If it's only wearing at the scoop and the magnet those areas can be redesigned with protectors to make them more durable. It would be a worry if there was wear in unexpected areas.

The Hobbit and DI playfields are made by Mirco, no? I believe they have a good reputation. Earlier WOZ playfields are a different story, they were made by another manufacturer and some had adhesion issues.

OK, now I officially have a reason to swing by there and flip/bowl.

If they did, does Stern sell that part? Cant they just buy them and use them?

I can't imagine they'd receive a patent for that.

Here it was on December 7th. Looks like it needs some extra protection around that thing. Still a VERY fun game, I am sure they will figure it out. I put around 50 plays on it that day alone since I had no where to be but the airport...

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I plan on operating Dialed In, so I see all that wear as a great sign. It means that the game has been up and running, not down because of some mechanical issue. It isn't all that hard to protect the areas that are showing wear, not a worry for me.

I never quite understood the exposed magnet cores...why not just put it under the playfield like Shadow and Addams...or even GB w/ the magna-slings. If worried about wood wear in that area, just put some mylar in that area at the factory.

It must have to do with the way the magnet is used. An exposed core might be needed to stop higher velocity shots, but I'm not sure. If you could do what you wanted to do with the magnet under the playfield, then it seems silly to have them exposed as they are now. If everything is possible with the magnet under the playfield, I agree, put them under and throw mylar over the area.

You should ask Extreme Pinball about his routing experience with Woz and TH

Unless Dialed In rights a lot of wrongs, I wouldn't route a JJP. First of all, the cost is A LOT to recoup, and secondly, neither WoZ or The Hobbit have a strong record of uptime on location. In the home you can put the time in to tweak. For an operator, it could be a headache.

I don't think so - Shadow's under the playfield magnet can stop a fast shot. The magnet on the Ringmaster's head on CV (hidden under the lid on his head) usually grabs fast shots. I get the feeling exposed cores were done to either show the player there's a magnet there and something cool will happen...or to prevent the wood from getting worn by the pull of the magnet. Shadow's often have wood wear where the magnet is..but had they put a strip of mylar there to begin with, it would have been fine.

We have had Hobbit out for quite a while and no major issues. Plenty of up time and also a great earner relative to other games.

The hidden magnet on Shadow is capable of bringing a screaming ball to a halt. Of course, it generates a lot of friction on the playfield. I think that's why they generally choose to have the cores exposed instead of hiding them. I agree with @rarehero, though, that mylar might be a better solution.

Yeah, I think they thought exposing cores would solve that wood wear issue, not realizing it brought other problems with it like wear around the core, mushrooming, and even caving in the playfield like on Stern IJ.

The JJP system was pretty extensively redesigned with DI. So far, DI has been reported to be largely trouble-free at shows and on test.

When i played Dialed In at Level 257 i also noticed the ware around the magnet. I'm glad it's on location for testing, this gives them the opportunity to fix these issues.

I wish that were true. Unfortunately, after a time, the wood under the mylar has similar problems.

Yeah? I touched up my Shadow and mylared it a million years ago...looks the same as the day I did it. Granted it's not on location...but I have played the hell out of it.

I would agree that WOZ was a real handful on location, as I routed one for years. I have had The Hobbit on location since last spring and it hasn't been down yet. Sure, I have had to fix some things, but nothing like WOZ.

Eventually the wood breaks down, regardless of what is done to protect the graphics. It is just real thin right there over the magnet. Couldn't tell you how many plays that takes, so you may be safe in home use. I saw an operator install a piece of sheet metal over that area and it held up fine. Not much for looks though.

The larger magnet core style used on TWD and after is a proven fix for those types of issues. I have a TWD with 60k+ games and the area around the core looks new.

JJP games must have a strong record of uptime on location otherwise their games wouldn't be the top earner at many locations and #1 in Replay (WOZ) month after month. Yes some early WOZ's had problems with lightboards and fewer playfield issues but that was years ago. Talked to one local operator a few weeks back and he said WOZ continues to be his #1 earner.

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How bad is it in 2016/2017 when two of the top 5 earning arcade games are pac-man, and another two of the top 5 are big buck hunters?

Nothing against those games, but that suggests a dearth of creativity, or a lack of consumer demand for anything different...

Have you played the battle royal pac man? Super fun game and it should be in the top 5.

The 'pin cafe' in London, TILT, that I've been to (one of only two in UK) ... I would be amazed if WOZ hasn't been their number one earner since it went in well over a year ago. Every time I've visited and there have been any number of people there, it has always been the most busy machine by far ... and they have other crowd pleasers like Hobbit, MM, MB, CC, CV, GB, ST, GoT etc.

By FAR, much better quality than JJP on those magnets, not even close. Yep, my TWD looks great still as well, along with my GBLE.

The JJP superiority build idea is a farce in so many ways. My Woz is a great example.

I have spent more time and BS on it than ALL of my Stern pins combined.

Tree pop bumpers falling off, flaky switches, chipping, blown fuses, flipper issues, light boards, etc. etc.

No, it's a fact that JJP uses higher quality components. They've just had some early growing pains in regards to engineering. Coming into game three, it looks like they've figured a lot of those issues out.

Wear around a magnet on a test game doesn't say much. Wear around a home use game would.

"Looks like" means nothing though right?

I say "wear" around that magnet means a lot. Can't be that many plays.

In any event, I'm not paying $9500 for "looks like" anything. Just saying.

I go with what i like and what has served me well.

As for "higher quality components", I'll go with what Extreme Pinball says with his high volume JJP and STERN routed pins.

Ice you are sounding more and more like Panzer about JJP when you talk about Stern!

You should have seen me back in the day clg! I was smoking the JJP weed hook, line and sinker.

Just trying to keep it real. Long term it all looks like shit apparently. Plus i like to argue, especially with Panzer.

Seriously though, I've had great experience with Stern pins and not so much with my Woz, BUT they do have great service with Lloyd and crew. And i still really like playing my Woz!

Didn't you get in on Batman '66 and it's made-of-clay magnet? I mean, c'mon...

It's the style these days. Soft metal is all the rage! Looks like hammered artwork.

At least its big enough to handle the job. Good lord, that little BB gun pea shooter crapola magnet sucks.

Stern dropping the mic on that itty bitty JJP magnet.

This^^^
This game is insanely fun!!!

I was hoping this would be the case but I have less than a hundred plays on my TWDLE and I have chipping. I ordered cliffys but haven't had a chance to put them on yet.

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Is the core level to the play field ? I had to level the core on my 2nd twd pro

Plus it's just a LITTLE impressive when a small start up knocks the old-timer out of the #1 spot on their very first try right?

You gotta give them that

It seems like you had a bad experience with WOZ and have made your mind up about JJP. That's not really "keeping it real". Keeping it real would involve judging each new machine on it's merits. Now, if DI ships and has quality problems by all means flame away but judging DI build-quality based on WOZ playfield adhesion issues or wear around the magnet on the DI test game seems premature, as does judging the game before you have played it by the way.

Yea the di prototypes have had the snot played out of them for months consistently and have held up very well. A simple mylar ring around that magnet is all thats needed. That particular magnet gives off a ton of action . Look at all the met pins with wear around the magnet in a realitivty short time unless a cliffy or mylar was added. Its awesome jjp actually put these out for test so they know what to fix in the production run. It much better than sterns way which is just produce and no real world testing.... look how that's worked out the last few years...lol.

Yes, level. I think there may have been a blem at the edge. I don't know but now I have to protect it because I don't want the wear to get worse. Needless to say for the amount of plays I was not very happy

Not at all re JJP. I had a deposit on TH for a LONG time until it was clear that Expo that it would be at least another year before we got our games. TH looks good, other options came out and i got tired of waiting.

Lawlor is a top designer. Was going to designate $$ for that release until the theme was announced.

Game #4, we will see and judge on its own merits.

I've had great experiences with my Stern pins, most of all, fun to play. Woz has been good too. All the issues were resolved.

When i start to hear route operators state how much higher quality JJP is in relation to Stern then I'll go with that. Either way, its not a huge issue that others try and make it into.

The enjoyment of the pin comes first, not necessarily that Stern's magnets are much better than JJP.

I'm surprised to see that KISS is one of the top five earners, and neither AC/DC nor MET even made the list. I would have thought both of those games would kill it on location.